ThreadBare said:

What's wrong with disagreeing with his message, when his message is "homosexuality is merely a lifestyle choice that can be overcome." That's not preaching love - it's sending a message of self-hatred. And just because he's motivated by love does not mean that his route of helping people is not, in fact, destructive.

On a side note, you were shocked that there are staunch Bush supporters...in the South?



quote edit
[Edited 1/11/06 4:57am]

Donnie McClurkin had a very rough childhood. That alone is a tragedy. But what makes his otherwise inspiring story so troubling is that he is now violating young people in much the same way that he was violated. By teaching young people that they can pray their way out of who they are, he is essentially creating a generation of newly confused adolescents.

Gay teenagers are already more likely to be abused in school or to attempt suicide than their straight counterparts. We've already reported on young gays and lesbians who have been beaten to death by their parents (3-year-old Ronnie Parris) and their neighbors (15-year-old Sakia Gunn). Do these young people really need to have their ministers beating them up too? We think not.

Okay, I usually don't get this personal on the Org, but seriously, y'all, help me out. This has me really pissed off.

Which one is it??

I'm a female who was molested by a male relative at a young age. I've had people tell me that that's why I "became" a lesbian (not the obvious answer that I just like women, dummy). And Donnie is claiming that he "became" gay because he was raped by a member of the same sex.

Which one is it? Does being assaulted by a member of the opposite sex make you gay, or does being assaulted by a member of the same sex do it?

Or how about (I know this is crazy, but stick with me here): None of the above and we are who we are, we love who we love, and are attracted to who we're attracted to?

RipHer2Shreds said:

No, surprised at seemingly cool folks being Bush supporters.

As for the Bible, it's a very divisive book at whose core is the simple message that humans are born with a void that can be filled only by God and that, without asking Him to do so, humanity is doomed. Christians believe the John 3:16 message that God's plan of rescue through Christ is motivated by love, but people can view that message as being hateful. Because many of us humans think we're just fine without the life of faith put forth in the Bible.

So, I don't think it odd that people hear preachers talking about such matters from a biblical perspective as unloving, even if their doing so is very much in keeping with what the Bible puts forth.

If my mom saw sleep in my eye, she would tell me. In public. I might not like her approach. But I've never questioned the love behind her approach.

FunkMistress said:

Exactly. And dude's trying WAY to hard to justify his sexuality. He can't. He is the way he is and he has to deal with it. God won't "heal" him because there's nothing wrong. Maybe he prayed that he wouldn't lust for another man, but that surely won't stop him from falling in love with another. Homosexuality and Lust are 2 different things, He's confusing his lust for another man with his attraction to another man. And this is what KILLS me. The black church has this stance against homosexuality, yet they GLORIFY a fucking drag queen.

Do ya'll feel me? Why the hell should I watch THIS shit? And why should it be right? I can go to Stallion's on Saturday nights and see Mercedes Diamond if I wanna see a drag queen, which basically what Madea is. So I guess it's wrong for a gay man to dress like a woman, yet it's alright if you do it and sing a few gospel songs and quote a few scriptures. My mom is in LOVE with those fucking Madea movies. And I sat there and tried to watch one with her and told her this same shit, and she told me to get the hell outta my house cuz there's no way I'm gonna talk about a man of God like that. Bullshit. That shit caught my eye QUICK. So they think they haven't embraced gays when in a way unknown to them, they already have. Still, I'm not going back to church.

DynamicSavior said:

FunkMistress said:

Exactly. And dude's trying WAY to hard to justify his sexuality. He can't. He is the way he is and he has to deal with it. God won't "heal" him because there's nothing wrong. Maybe he prayed that he wouldn't lust for another man, but that surely won't stop him from falling in love with another. Homosexuality and Lust are 2 different things, He's confusing his lust for another man with his attraction to another man. And this is what KILLS me. The black church has this stance against homosexuality, yet they GLORIFY a fucking drag queen.

Do ya'll feel me? Why the hell should I watch THIS shit? And why should it be right? I can go to Stallion's on Saturday nights and see Mercedes Diamond if I wanna see a drag queen, which basically what Madea is. So I guess it's wrong for a gay man to dress like a woman, yet it's alright if you do it and sing a few gospel songs and quote a few scriptures. My mom is in LOVE with those fucking Madea movies. And I sat there and tried to watch one with her and told her this same shit, and she told me to get the hell outta my house cuz there's no way I'm gonna talk about a man of God like that. Bullshit. That shit caught my eye QUICK. So they think they haven't embraced gays when in a way unknown to them, they already have. Still, I'm not going back to church.

Adisa said:

I was being serious and trying to make a point.

DynamicSavior said:

You can be serious and still be funny

So much of what we support as consumers claims to be authentic: Hip-hop, country, rock, soul, whatever. People are always talking about how they're the real thing.

Here, McClurkin has shared his testimony and his struggles. If you reread the passage about being victimized at the hands of people in authority, you see he very clearly identifies a problem within the Church. Abuse is abuse.

Agree or disagree with his conclusions, the authenticity of McClurkin's views cannot be doubted. He's speaking from experience. He's speaking as an entertainer and preacher about an ongoing phenomenon within the Church, especially the black church. As a preacher and gospel entertainer whose context is the Bible, his position on it is biblical, casting homosexual behavior as a negative.

What's so shocking about that? The fact that he would say it?

Okay, I usually don't get this personal on the Org, but seriously, y'all, help me out. This has me really pissed off.

Which one is it??

I'm a female who was molested by a male relative at a young age. I've had people tell me that that's why I "became" a lesbian (not the obvious answer that I just like women, dummy). And Donnie is claiming that he "became" gay because he was raped by a member of the same sex.

Which one is it? Does being assaulted by a member of the opposite sex make you gay, or does being assaulted by a member of the same sex do it?

Or how about (I know this is crazy, but stick with me here): None of the above and we are who we are, we love who we love, and are attracted to who we're attracted to?

FunkMistress said:

-----
But that is how you feel. You can't say how Donnie feels. Why can't any of you guys see that.

FunkMistress said:

-----
But that is how you feel. You can't say how Donnie feels. Why can't any of you guys see that.

ThreadBare said:

-----
Co-sign. People are shocked that he would just come out and be honest. The world has become much too P.C.

laurarichardson said:

Not a single person here doesn't get that it's how he feels. Just because it's his own personal feelings doesn't make it any less damaging. Why can't you see that? It is your feeling, too?

FunkMistress said:

-----
But that is how you feel. You can't say how Donnie feels. Why can't any of you guys see that.

laurarichardson said:

We don't believe he's being honest. That's the problem

Is Donnie McClurkin Still Gay?
By Keith Boykin
September 30, 2005 08:05 AM
in spirituality

We have reached the final day in our series on homophobic black ministers. Today Jasmyne Cannick and I profile Donnie McClurkin. During the past five days, we have profiled T.D. Jakes, Eddie Long, Willie Wilson, Noel Jones, Gregory Daniels, Paul Morton, Charles Blake and Creflo Dollar. All these black pastors are known for their homophobia.

Today, on the final day of our series, we take a different course. Today we profile a gospel musician who is also a minister. But this time we're not asking if the subject of our profile is gay. He's already acknowledged his homosexual past. Given Donnie McClurkin's familiarity with homosexuality, we want to know why he is still preaching homophobia from his pulpit. If you have any information to help us understand, please send an email by clicking here.

Here now is part five, our joint profile of Donnie McClurkin.



-----


Donnie McClurkin

Donnie McClurkin first came across our radar several years ago. The 46-year-old unmarried gospel singer and preacher, best known for his hit songs "Stand" and "We Fall Down," popularized the phrase, "A saint is just a sinner who fell down."

Back in 2002, we reported that McClurkin's church, Perfecting Faith Church in New York, drew nearly a thousand people every Sunday, including his friend, Starr Jones of ABC-TV's "The View." The collection plate at the church reportedly brought in $100,000 a month. There's no doubt McClurkin has carved out a successful career as a gospel music artist and as a minister. Next Friday, a new film called "The Gospel" will feature McClurkin when it opens in theaters.

Believe it or not, we like Donnie McClurkin as a musician. We enjoy his music. We may even like his acting. But what makes McClurkin a controversial figure is his preaching. It began with McClurkin's 2001 book, Eternal Victim/Eternal Victor, where he explained his 20-year experience with homosexuality, which he said started after he was raped by an uncle.
"Love is pulling you one way and lust is pulling you another and your relationship with Jesus is tearing you," McClurkin told the media. He says that God delivered him from homosexuality, and since that time, he has been counseling adolescent boys that homosexuality is merely a lifestyle choice that can be overcome.

We'd like to see the proof. No reputable scientific study has ever demonstrated that homosexuality is a choice or that it can be "overcome." As we've said before, homosexuality, like heterosexuality, is a sexual orientation. People don't choose their sexual orientations. They are who they are. They may choose whether to act on their sexual orientations, but they have little or no choice about the sexual orientation itself.

Donnie McClurkin had a very rough childhood. That alone is a tragedy. But what makes his otherwise inspiring story so troubling is that he is now violating young people in much the same way that he was violated. By teaching young people that they can pray their way out of who they are, he is essentially creating a generation of newly confused adolescents.

Gay teenagers are already more likely to be abused in school or to attempt suicide than their straight counterparts. We've already reported on young gays and lesbians who have been beaten to death by their parents (3-year-old Ronnie Parris) and their neighbors (15-year-old Sakia Gunn). Do these young people really need to have their ministers beating them up too? We think not.

A Bush supporter, McClurkin performed for the President at the Republican National Convention last year. "There is a moral aspect that was overwhelmingly a part of Bush's appeal," said McClurkin, who also appeared in Michigan with Bush during the campaign. Shortly after, he was quoted on the Christian Broadcasting Network's (Pat Robertson’s organization) web site saying: "I'm not in the mood to play with those who are trying to kill our children." So now gays are trying to kill children. That’s completely absurd and there’s no proof to validate that statement.

In May of this year, McClurkin finally responded to criticism from the gay community, including criticism that appeared 3 years ago on keithboykin.com. In an interview with Religion & Ethics Newsweekly, McClurkin downplayed the controversy and described it as the product of "a few of the radical activists in the gay community trying to spin things into something that it really isn't."

So what is and what isn't? Listen to what Donnie McClurkin himself says about his sexuality. "There was a big 20-year gap of sexual ambiguity where after the rape my desires were toward men, and I had to fight those things because I knew that it wasn't what we were taught in church was right. And the older I got, the more that became a problem, because those were the first two sexual relationships that I had. Eight years old and 13 years old. So that's what I was molded into. And I fought that. When I tell you from eight to 28, that was my fight -- in the church. And you were in an environment where there were hidden, you know, vultures I call them, that are hidden behind frocks and behind collars and behind -- you know, reverends and the deacons, and it becomes a preying ground, a place where the prey is hunted, and that was what it was like."

McClurkin basically describes a world in which homosexuality is common in the church community. Something we have been trying to point out from day one in our campaign. The black church is the most homophobic and the most homotolerant institution in the black community.

And McClurkin was a part of the community. Then he says he changed. "God started making it plain to me the things to hate. You don't hate the people, but there are certain things that are against God that may be in you that you have got to learn how to hate, even though it's in you." That leads us to wonder, how did these "things" get into you in the first place?

Comparing gays and lesbians to liars, McClurkin explains, "There are certain things like, you know, anybody who has a lying problem; they get to the point where they hate being so, having such a lack of character that they make a change."

In the same interview, McClurkin argues again that homosexuality is simply a lifestyle choice. "There's a group that says, 'God made us this way,' but then there's another group that knows God didn't make them that way," he says. Notice the circularity in his rhetoric. The people who say that God made them gay don't know what they're talking about because the people who say God did not make them gay are right. Well how do they know if someone was born gay or not if they are not gay themselves? It's insulting and presumptuous of others to tell gays and lesbians that they're not smart enough even to know who they are.

As we have said all along, our experience has shown that the people who are the most homophobic also tend to be dealing with their own issues about their sexuality. People who are comfortable with their sexuality usually don't care as much about other people's sexuality. Which leads us to an obvious question. Is Donnie McClurkin still gay? If you have any information on McClurkin or any of the ministers we profile this week, please contact us. We want to know, and we want you to know. Send us an email by
[Edited 1/8/06 20:34pm]

BlackBuddy said:

It's a novel way of being disingenuous, by drawing attention to it. Sorry, there are a number of artists, gospel and otherwise, hiding their homosexuality because of how they fear it might affect their careers.

DM, on the other hand, gives his testimony, and draws attention to and ministers to young men at risk of being preyed upon the same way he was, and folks are skeptical that he's been changed.

Got it.

FunkMistress said:

Exactly. And dude's trying WAY to hard to justify his sexuality. He can't. He is the way he is and he has to deal with it. God won't "heal" him because there's nothing wrong. Maybe he prayed that he wouldn't lust for another man, but that surely won't stop him from falling in love with another. Homosexuality and Lust are 2 different things, He's confusing his lust for another man with his attraction to another man. And this is what KILLS me. The black church has this stance against homosexuality, yet they GLORIFY a fucking drag queen.

Do ya'll feel me? Why the hell should I watch THIS shit? And why should it be right? I can go to Stallion's on Saturday nights and see Mercedes Diamond if I wanna see a drag queen, which basically what Madea is. So I guess it's wrong for a gay man to dress like a woman, yet it's alright if you do it and sing a few gospel songs and quote a few scriptures. My mom is in LOVE with those fucking Madea movies. And I sat there and tried to watch one with her and told her this same shit, and she told me to get the hell outta my house cuz there's no way I'm gonna talk about a man of God like that. Bullshit. That shit caught my eye QUICK. So they think they haven't embraced gays when in a way unknown to them, they already have. Still, I'm not going back to church.

DynamicSavior said:

got this email from tyler perry today:

Hello everybody how is your new year going?



I have so much to share with you. I was just reflecting on last year and how
great it was. Like my grandma use to say "aint God good". This year is
starting off with a bang of blessings as well. Let me say thank you for
investing in me and what we have done. I am so proud of the people that have
worked for me; we have truly been blessed by you. I have been on tour with
Madea Goes to Jail for a little more than a year now and it has been
amazing. I must say out of all the tours I have done this has been the best
one. The cast I am working with is amazing. To be on a tour like this has a
lot of rewards, but there are some down sides too. So, to have a group of
people who know how to roll with the punches is a wonderful thing. It is
great to have people who don't know you, like you from a distance. But to
have the love and respect of the people that see you day in and day out is a
whole other matter. I know that these people love me, and I love them.

Thank you for last year, and thank you so much for helping me out this year
and for buying Chandra Curelley's C.D. I know that you enjoyed it as much
as I have. I really love grown folks music. Her C.D. is still available at
http://cdbaby.com/cd/currelley

Also, the soundtrack for Madea's Family Reunion will be out soon in stores
everywhere. The first single for the release is Brian McKnight singing "In
YOU" it is classic Marvin Gaye. Wait until you hear it is hot. Also, on the
soundtrack is Chaka Khan singing a song I wrote called, "Keep your head up",
Mary Mary, LL cool J, Yolanda Adams, Gerald Levert, Rachelle Ferrell, Kem,
Will Downing, Carl Thomas, Al Green, and the O'Jays, GROAN FOLK MUSIC, I
love it. Wait until you hear it.

February 24th the new Movie opens MADEA'S FAMILY REUNION and what a ride it
is. Now if you remember last year they said Diary was terrible and you
shouldn't go see it. I don't know what they are going to say about this one
all I know is that if you go on the first weekend everyone of THEM will have
to be quiet. We have more screens this time and I will be sending out real
soon the phone number for ADVANCE SALES. you know it was sold out every
where last year so what I would love to see happen is the members of the
site to get in to see it first because when you got a lot of people around
you telling you how great you are and not telling you the truth because they
want to keep you happy you need real people. So, I know yall real and you
will always tell me the truth on that Message board. So, buy in advance if
you can. I need your opinions.

I'm still on tour with Madea Goes to Jail until Mothers Day. Everybody is
asking for the video it doesn't come out until JUNE. But it will be in
stores everywhere. I need to talk to my folks in Philly and surrounding
areas. I know that situation at that building is crazy but I had to stop in
Philly before my tour ended. Here is the number and address to call and get
tickets there and directions to get them. Liacouras Center 1776 North Broad
Street, Philadelphia, PA 19121 ; 215-204 2400. I am coming but that was the
only time I could come. So get the tickets I will make sure it is worth the
headache.

. MADEA is not who I am. I was in the mall and a lady walked up to
me and asked where was my dress (what the hell...smile) I AM A MAN, although
I love women God himself knows I don't want to be one. I said all of that
to say this. I have been asked many times to do Madea outside of my shows
but I have always said no to Award shows, concerts, and movies. I won't do
it because I'm uncomfortable with people seeing me like that up close and
personal.
Well Oprah asked me to do it on her show. My first reaction was no but yall
know that she is a huge part of the reason I started writing. After much
debate and prayer I agreed to do it. Get ready cause Madea is going to be on
Oprah. PRAY FOR ME. Tyler,

Oh yeah and by the way, Diary was nominated for four NAACP image Awards,
Kimberly Elise, Shemar MooOn a more serious note, Madea is a character that has been a blessing but it
has come with its share of challenges. Many of you don't know this but I am
extremely uncomfortable doing this character. I never have anyone other
than the cast and crew back stage because I am so embarrassed. I know that
sounds strange, but it's true. Sometimes l looks in the mirror as I'm
putting on lipstick and say to myself Boy what is wrong with you? Anyway I
had to realize what I wish most people would realize about Madea. I am not a
man that walks around in a dress. I am an actor and I'm playing a
characterre and Cicely Tyson, and the movie for best
picture ( maybe I played so many character that they didn't know I was in
it. SMILE) I'm creating a calendar page on the web site so that you can
know what's going on from day to day and when this stuff airs.

Stay close I will let you know when that will be happening. God bless my
good people I'll talk to you soon. I'm asking for your prayers through this
illusion called life. TYLER PERRY

ThreadBare said:

Are you clarifying something for me?

BlackBuddy said:

No, failing at sarcasm.

meltwithu said:

That doesn't mean he's not gay
[Edited 1/13/06 20:54pm]