badujunkie said:

Please don't tell me you are trying to compare a RUMORED comment of one person to the selective, deliberate oppression of an entire people? Don't go there. You don't have the ammo, sweetie.

CinisterCee said:

thats true. but everyone looks out for theirs. as a community blacks dont need to worry about what that white rocker is doing cuz it dont reflect badly on them and it doesnt continue a certain stereotype

BlaqueKnight said:

i couldn't resist, sweetheart.

badujunkie said:

I know. Breathe. Exhale. If it happened, Erykah was having a "nigga moment" (see: Boondocks). I'm sure she's back to her normal self again. We can all rest easy.
I think when Mint Condition and G-Unit can both actually end up in competition for a "best group" award in a category ANYWHERE, something is sincerely WRONG.

badujunkie said:

OH GOD Dude, sell your cd's & move the fuck on if you're so hurt by a fucking rumor. Do you really expect to be coddled over that shit?

CherrieMoonKisses said:

-----
I got this from Eurweb.com but, I check out Bob's website and listen to SoulPatrol's radio shows which are great.

He is so on point in this article and I think what is trying to do with the internet is wonderful. We have got to save our music. I feel like our cultrue is being stolen from us and replaced with Gangster/Dirty South Garbage.

The public really thinks that represents RnB music and black people.

BlaqueKnight said:

Thanks!

We may be saying the same thing. I think we're reveling in the images that are being thrust on us by an industry that is serving up the worst elements of hip-hop with a complete lack of context or perspective. Hit-Pop is the result.

namepeace said:

What has happened is that a certain segment of the Black community (the poor Black underclass) has been held up as an example of what "REAL" Blacks are. Their culture and mores are seen as "authentic", and anybody with midlle class aspirations or any type of intellectual curiosity in the Black community is mocked as a "sell-out" or a 'wanna be white"(the worst insults a black person can hurl at another these days). A lot of Hip-Hop is the manifestation of such thinking and values
[Edited 12/29/05 9:00am]

jjhunsecker said:

In that vein, look on the internet for a research paper by Roland G. Fryer, Jr. and Paul Torelli of Harvard entitled, "An Empirical Analysis of `Acting White.'"

I'm reading it right now, which of course means . . .

CalhounSq said:

so you have to call me out in two threads? who needs to move on?

jjhunsecker said:

co sign. i've actually had people say that to me - oh u trying to sound white? and its a sad day when talkin proper, pronouncing your ers and ings equals sounding white

Moonwalkbjrain said:

I know your pain Moonwalkbjrain

jjhunsecker said:

It is sad indeed how a black folk can insult another especially about not being black enough especially when we supposed to be unity for common causes. I have been frown on for talking too proper or using unfamilar words and also dressed differently. I would be like I am black and I dont have to prove to you or anyone else and if you dont like me whom I am then fuck you too. I went to almost all black high school and I was considered an outcast and I was teased daily, and high school was hard for me especially my freshman year. Fortinutely by junior year, I came across with other black and even some white outcasts and we formed a tight-nitted and bonding group. Is it funny the same people who teased me arent friends with each other anymore and obvious their friendship was based on superficial, yet I am still friends with some of the people in my group in high school.

DorothyParkerWasCool said:

I agree. And, I'll piggyback to say that racism and the perpetuation of the aforementioned stereotypes and antisocial behavior fuel too much big business for the author's requests to ever do more than fall on deaf ears.

If record labels saw profitability in abandoning the thug (antisocial) model, they would. Sadly, that model plays into antiquated stereotypes so deeply woven into white America's psyche that rending it now would cause disorientation. And, antisocial entertainment -- which I'd say most heavily promoted rap is -- breeds antisocial behavior. Hence all the disruptions at big hip-hop events and their unattractiveness to the music biz. But, within the realm of make-believe, that antisocial genre rakes in big money from tons of white kids.

Simply put, America -- particularly where entertainment is concerned -- has made up its mind about the identity and purposes of black people. It doesn't care that it's a fallacious, fictional construct. People hate to change. And, given the money shrewd white men are making off of animalistic black entertainers, it won't change any time soon.

Moonwalkbjrain said:

I know how you feel about that.Just because you use correct english does not make you a sell out or trying to sound or be white.

The vast majority of artists in the top positions of the US charts have been black for more than a half-a-decade. If that is an overt form of racism that should be fought then fine, go ahead with it. To me that's just fucking ridiculous.

badujunkie said:

Bitch please - I will call you out wherever I see you crying over this shit

Novabreaker said:

-----
Do you think these artist would be in the top positions of the US charts if they were not making total buffons out of themselves and putting out poor quality music.

Go back and read the damm article.

laurarichardson said:

Already did. It's a very naive article, and a damn populist one too. These kind of articles were written from the same starting points in the 80s-90s, and back then it was still admittably reasonable criticism. It just strikes to me that this writer is still sticking to the same views and not moving on, stubbornly trying to accommodate the old formula by forcing it into new viewpoints.

This not a form of racism, nobody fucking forces the artists to be "total buffoons" or put out "poor quality music". They always have the personal choice to decline no matter what. Besides, their target audience (which I believe is the vast majority of the American record buying public) do not view them as such. I don't think the black artists come off any more ridiculous than the white artists, say Nickelback, Limp Bizkit, the American Idol winners and so on (pretty much everybody especially on the singles charts). Pop music is overtly stupid these days, it has absolutely nothing to do with race. If it does, then it would actually only prove that people of other races than caucasian are intellectually inferior. You don't want to go there, do you? I certainly for one do not.

When the writer comes up with something like:


Well, he should prove somehow that it is done deliberately to worsen the racist stereotype. What does he have to back it up on? The record companies are in it for money, attempting to suggest the initial motif behind it would be somekind of a "racial conspiracy" is a bit too much.

He continues it with:


Oh, great. Yay. Go White Power.

[...]

As far as gigging goes, well the clubs book in the bands that manage to attract a considerably big (drinking) audience. Most gig-goers do not go see an R&B act, and that's just how it traditionally goes. The statement definitely does not apply to jazz bands where the white crossover bands in question do not attract a considerable audience, if they do it's still a "rock" audience.

ANY musician who works in the field of mass cultural production has to make concessions concerning their material and also compromise image-wise. If you do not like to make them, head to the musical underground instead. A cleaning lady's job isn't that glamorous either, she doesn't get all that she'd want from her current occupation. But no, when you're a musician you should get it all and exactly the way you want it.
[Edited 1/2/06 1:13am]

Novabreaker said:

Well, this is a deliberate strategy by the industry because these images make money. Black and white audiences alike can't get enough of the gangsta, the bling, etc. That this gangster "motif" reinforces ancient stereotypes of the black male is really beside the point to an industry that's out to make money any way it can.

So, whether deliberate or not, the result is still the same, though I see what you're saying.

namepeace said:

That doesn't make it racist. And once again, it's the "artists" themselves who are responsible for the end-product anyway. What can't poor people take care of themselves anymore? "They're giving us a whole lot of money so we have to portray a stereotype! That's so wrong!"

For crying out l...

Novabreaker said:

Where did I say the industry's strategy was racist? Oh wait . . . I didn't.

Regardless of intent, and the allocation of responsibility, Hit-Pop reinforces the worst stereotypes of black people.

We can offer explanations for this fact for days.

It's still a fact.

namepeace said:

Well-stated as usual, namepeace.

But I'll raise you and call the practices and strategies of the record industry racist. Unequivocally.

VIBE magazine recently published a very good article on Jimmy Iovine, head of Interscope. The man has so much power that he virtually acts as the "gatekeeper," deciding who makes it in the pop/hip-hop industry and who doesn't. The reporter unearthed some quotes from Mr. Iovine which make it quite clear that he's fully aware of what he's doing. Namely, that he's selling negative stereotypes of black men and women to white suburban kids (who represent the vast majority of those buying mainstream/gangsta rap music), furthering racist stereotypes and fear, and making millions doing it.

This is a fact, it's disgusting, and it's unconscionable. It stands alone, having nothing to do with the fact that your boyfriend's friend's white band can't get booked either. That isn't directed at anyone personally on this thread, I'm just sick and tired of that type of argument from folks who are knowingly or unknowingly enabling and defending racism by trying to sweep it under the rug.

namepeace said:

That's the whole subject matter of the article itself, remember?

BlaqueKnight said:

I know. With a record contract worth of several million dollars handed out to each of these poor victims we have a serious problem going on here.

Novabreaker said:

-----
For crying out loud why don't you read this below. Artist are not as in control as you seem to think and making money for acting like a damm Sambo at the request of the record company is racist. Good Lord man wake-up.

-----
VIBE magazine recently published a very good article on Jimmy Iovine, head of Interscope. The man has so much power that he virtually acts as the "gatekeeper," deciding who makes it in the pop/hip-hop industry and who doesn't. The reporter unearthed some quotes from Mr. Iovine which make it quite clear that he's fully aware of what he's doing. Namely, that he's selling negative stereotypes of black men and women to white suburban kids (who represent the vast majority of those buying mainstream/gangsta rap music), furthering racist stereotypes and fear, and making millions doing it.

This is a fact, it's disgusting, and it's unconscionable. It stands alone, having nothing to do with the fact that your boyfriend's friend's white band can't get booked either. That isn't directed at anyone personally on this thread, I'm just sick and tired of that type of argument from folks who are knowingly or unknowingly enabling and defending racism by trying to sweep it under the rug.

-----

laurarichardson said:

In no way, shape, or form will I try to hide or sweep away the racism that existed and still exists in this country, and in the music industry.

BUT ,.. (and you knew a "But" was coming)... what about the responsibility of an Irv Gotti, a Damon Dash, a Russell Simmons, a Suge Knight, a Jay-Z, in all of this ?? They are the ones helping to sell this image to the 'gatekeepers", and I think they need to to be more responsible. To be frank, I don't expect a Jimmy Iovine to be concerned about what image of Blacks he sells to the world. But I would expect more from Gotti and P Diddy and the rest. Or is that OK because now "a brutha is gettin; paid " ??
[Edited 1/4/06 9:04am]

BlaqueKnight said:

We just have to agree to disagree. I'm not letting anyone of the hook. As I said in my statement, I don't expect much from Jimmy Iovine or any White executive in this regards. But I would hope the Blacks involved would not so willingly "Sell Out".
Back in the days of minstrel shows and Stepin Fetchit, we really had no other options . Today is a different world, and I don't think it's right for the image of Black people to be maligned so P Diddy can buy another yacht or Irv Gotti can pay his legal fees. You're right about the tribal Chiefs who sold their people into slavery, let's not forget that side of the story in order to spare some folk's delicate sensibilities

Novabreaker said:

Yes, but you were responding to namepeace's comments, not those of the author.