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Printablemurph said: I'm glad we can have a respectful dialogue about this...I believe this is how it should be done...To get back to our discussion, I believe that people should have their day in court; But!!!!! I believe we are all allowed one benefit of the doubt...MJ has had three or four...Just for the record, I would like to know how old are you? I think that may have something to do with your undying belief in MJ's innocence.... There's no way of getting around it...When you see a 45 year old man on TV holding the hand of a barely teenage boy, it's a warning sign...I don't need Nancy Grace to tell me that...She never had love for MJ; She didn't go to the Triumph tour; She didn't dance in her room like a maniac to Thriller; She didn't watch tapes of Motown 25 and Thriller so much that she had the moves memorized to a T; I did...That's why I care... I'm 16 and I've loved Michael Jackson for only four years now. I had a bad childhood also and I understand why he identifies with children but I will probably never understand why he sleeps in a bed with children that are not his own, but that doesn't mean he has done anything with them. My undying love for him  is for a reason but I don't have undying belief in him because some hard no way you can deny evidence would shatter that, but so far, to me at least no evidence like that has come to my attention. And my unwillingness to just believe anything is not just because of MJ, I'm like this with everything...[Edited 12/20/05 21:24pm] | |
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I dont see how anyone with the name MichaelsLight could have an objective view on the situation.
Mikes fans ride HARD! | |
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DiamondGirl said: I dont see how anyone with the name MichaelsLight could have an objective view on the situation.
Mikes fans ride HARD! I just made that up for MJNO but I liked/loved it so I brought it along with me to the org, it doesn't really mean anything. NEXT | |
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murph said: MichaelsLight said: I believe Michael has a problem (pills,wine) and I hope he gets help with that. But I honestly don't believe he's a child molester. I'm not secretly thinking he did it inside but since I love him so much I'll just ignore. If I thought he did it or I'm 100% positive I wouldn't beat my chest for him. So until I beleive such things, I'll still beat my chest for Michael Jackson... Whether you or anybody else has a problem with it Okay...if I was MJ I would definitely want you as a fan....You are a very supportive cat...But ask yourself a question: How many young boys will scream out "molestation" before you come to terms with the unsettling thought that MJ indeed may have a serious problem? I can understand supporting him the first time; that was a complete shock, and even I had a hard time believing MJ could do something like that...But come on...There's been too many accounts and too many trials and sercret pay offs...If you call yourself a true fan, don't you think you would have the man's best interests? I find that a lot of MJ's more hardcore fans are in a state of arrested development...Just think with your head and not with your heart [Edited 12/20/05 20:49pm] You are blurring the facts to twist them into Michael being a child molester. I will give you - Michael has an obsession with children for better or worse. Neverland is a supporting factor of that. (Look at all the statues of kids.) However, that does NOT mean he molested any of them. It just means he likes to be in their company. They inspire him. Is it weird? Yeah a bit. But just because he is obsessed with children, doesn't mean he has a sexual desire to them. Hell, I'm obsessed with Michael and to some degree Prince..but that does not mean I want to sleep with either one of their asses. 
Maybe Michael does have an obsession with children that we don't understand, but it doesn't mean "something creepy went down." Nobody will ever know if Michael did or didn't molest any children, except Michael, those kids who claim it happened and G-D. Keep in mind though Mac Culkin, Wade Robison, Frank Tyson, Brett Barnes all said NOTHING happened, even though the DA had people claiming they "saw" certain things. Also keep in mind, the defense showed proof that the "accuser" and his "mother" were both total liars. So if you want to pass judgement on Michael...you must also give him a 50% chance of being "innocent" because..you don't know..you weren't there. The only other thing you must give him..is Not Guilty x 10!  Why? Because a court of law in your great country did!
P.S. I wasn't the person with the doves but I was at Santa Maria supporting Michael this past summer.  | |
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MichaelsLight said: murph said: I'm glad we can have a respectful dialogue about this...I believe this is how it should be done...To get back to our discussion, I believe that people should have their day in court; But!!!!! I believe we are all allowed one benefit of the doubt...MJ has had three or four...Just for the record, I would like to know how old are you? I think that may have something to do with your undying belief in MJ's innocence.... There's no way of getting around it...When you see a 45 year old man on TV holding the hand of a barely teenage boy, it's a warning sign...I don't need Nancy Grace to tell me that...She never had love for MJ; She didn't go to the Triumph tour; She didn't dance in her room like a maniac to Thriller; She didn't watch tapes of Motown 25 and Thriller so much that she had the moves memorized to a T; I did...That's why I care... I'm 16 and I've loved Michael Jackson for only four years now. I had a bad childhood also and I understand why he identifies with children but I will probably never understand why he sleeps in a bed with children that are not his own, but that doesn't mean he has done anything with them. My undying love for him is for a reason but I don't have undying belief in him because some hard no way you can deny evidence would shatter that, but so far, to me at least no evidence like that has come to my attention. And my unwillingness to just believe anything is not just because of MJ, I'm like this with everything...
[Edited 12/20/05 21:24pm] You see, I think your youthful background has a lot to do with your defense for MJ...If you were old enough to remember the man when he was ruling the universe and when the only thing that was "weird" about him was the news of him buying the Elephant Man's bones, then I can understand your questionable support...Your experience with Mike only dates back to the '90s...You grew up with the tabloid MJ, so accusations about child mostestation are just par-for-the-course...This is true of most of MJ's younger fans...They think that everybody is out to get him because, after all, their whole experience with MJ is as a walking-punchline who makes media headlines daily...I suggest that you talk to some older MJ fans who are without bias...I suggest you pick up some old books of the man and clear your head; i also suggest you use just plain common sense and put two and two together...Respect... | |
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MichaelsLight said: DiamondGirl said: I dont see how anyone with the name MichaelsLight could have an objective view on the situation.
Mikes fans ride HARD! I just made that up for MJNO but I liked/loved it so I brought it along with me to the org, it doesn't really mean anything. Of course it doesn't. | |
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jasonstar said: murph said: Okay...if I was MJ I would definitely want you as a fan....You are a very supportive cat...But ask yourself a question: How many young boys will scream out "molestation" before you come to terms with the unsettling thought that MJ indeed may have a serious problem? I can understand supporting him the first time; that was a complete shock, and even I had a hard time believing MJ could do something like that...But come on...There's been too many accounts and too many trials and sercret pay offs...If you call yourself a true fan, don't you think you would have the man's best interests? I find that a lot of MJ's more hardcore fans are in a state of arrested development...Just think with your head and not with your heart [Edited 12/20/05 20:49pm] You are blurring the facts to twist them into Michael being a child molester. I will give you - Michael has an obsession with children for better or worse. Neverland is a supporting factor of that. (Look at all the statues of kids.) However, that does NOT mean he molested any of them. It just means he likes to be in their company. They inspire him. Is it weird? Yeah a bit. But just because he is obsessed with children, doesn't mean he has a sexual desire to them. Hell, I'm obsessed with Michael and to some degree Prince..but that does not mean I want to sleep with either one of their asses.
Maybe Michael does have an obsession with children that we don't understand, but it doesn't mean "something creepy went down." Nobody will ever know if Michael did or didn't molest any children, except Michael, those kids who claim it happened and G-D. Keep in mind though Mac Culkin, Wade Robison, Frank Tyson, Brett Barnes all said NOTHING happened, even though the DA had people claiming they "saw" certain things. Also keep in mind, the defense showed proof that the "accuser" and his "mother" were both total liars. So if you want to pass judgement on Michael...you must also give him a 50% chance of being "innocent" because..you don't know..you weren't there. The only other thing you must give him..is Not Guilty x 10! Why? Because a court of law in your great country did!
P.S. I wasn't the person with the doves but I was at Santa Maria supporting Michael this past summer. LOL.... | |
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I was reading a book about Marvin Gaye that sort of reminds me of this topic, the story goes that Marvin and his second wife Janis separated, and she took the two children with her. Janis once accused Marvin of abducting their son(or he masterminded the abduction with help from a family member), and taking him to live with him in Hawaii. This story reminded me of this MJ/Debbie Rowe story, and at first I blamed Debbie Rowe mainly, which was wrong of me, but now I'm looking at this story and it's not making any sense to me.
Now, a parent can be accused of abducting their own children, but I never heard of abducting your children while you have custody of them. Abduct means kidnap, and how can you kidnap you children who already lives with you. Also, this guy has been staying in Bahrain for almost six months, how come abduction papers weren't filed the minute they left the country. Reading the story again closely, TMZ said it was a secret/private hearing/arbitration, so that means nobody knows what's going on, and they just made this up. Arbitrations are very private, that doesn't even involve the courts TMZ is not like The Smoking Gun.com, at least they have the paper work to back up their stories. | |
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you weren't there
exactly  [Edited 12/20/05 21:39pm] | |
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jasonstar said: You are blurring the facts to twist them into Michael being a child molester. I will give you - Michael has an obsession with children for better or worse. Neverland is a supporting factor of that. (Look at all the statues of kids.) However, that does NOT mean he molested any of them. It just means he likes to be in their company. They inspire him.
Is it weird? Yeah a bit. But just because he is obsessed with children, doesn't mean he has a sexual desire to them. Maybe Michael does have an obsession with children that we don't understand, but it doesn't mean "something creepy went down." Nobody will ever know if Michael did or didn't molest any children, except Michael, those kids who claim it happened and G-D. P.S. I wasn't the person with the doves but I was at Santa Maria supporting Michael this past summer. omg..I am too through   | |
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jasonstar said: murph said: Okay...if I was MJ I would definitely want you as a fan....You are a very supportive cat...But ask yourself a question: How many young boys will scream out "molestation" before you come to terms with the unsettling thought that MJ indeed may have a serious problem? I can understand supporting him the first time; that was a complete shock, and even I had a hard time believing MJ could do something like that...But come on...There's been too many accounts and too many trials and sercret pay offs...If you call yourself a true fan, don't you think you would have the man's best interests? I find that a lot of MJ's more hardcore fans are in a state of arrested development...Just think with your head and not with your heart [Edited 12/20/05 20:49pm] You are blurring the facts to twist them into Michael being a child molester. I will give you - Michael has an obsession with children for better or worse. Neverland is a supporting factor of that. (Look at all the statues of kids.) However, that does NOT mean he molested any of them. It just means he likes to be in their company. They inspire him. Is it weird? Yeah a bit. But just because he is obsessed with children, doesn't mean he has a sexual desire to them. Hell, I'm obsessed with Michael and to some degree Prince..but that does not mean I want to sleep with either one of their asses.
Maybe Michael does have an obsession with children that we don't understand, but it doesn't mean "something creepy went down." Nobody will ever know if Michael did or didn't molest any children, except Michael, those kids who claim it happened and G-D. Keep in mind though Mac Culkin, Wade Robison, Frank Tyson, Brett Barnes all said NOTHING happened, even though the DA had people claiming they "saw" certain things. Also keep in mind, the defense showed proof that the "accuser" and his "mother" were both total liars. So if you want to pass judgement on Michael...you must also give him a 50% chance of being "innocent" because..you don't know..you weren't there. The only other thing you must give him..is Not Guilty x 10! Why? Because a court of law in your great country did!
P.S. I wasn't the person with the doves but I was at Santa Maria supporting Michael this past summer. And for the record, I'm not blurring the facts...the fact is the man has an unhealthy obsession with kids; the fact is he paid off several families from pursuing court action...The fact is, he got off with a Not Guilty verdict because Tom Sneddon was too emotional about the case; These are things that reasonsable people understand; Hell, even his own family was trying to get the man checked into an asylum after the trial; There are a lot of things I can deal with; Celebrities all have their weird little ticks...But child molestation is some other shit...When kids are able to give vivid descriptions of a grown man's penis, to me that's troubling...And again, this is coming from a MJ fan from way back...I want the man to get some help...Beating on your chest about a verdict is a bit naive... | |
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murph said: You see, I think your youthful background has a lot to do with your defense for MJ...If you were old enough to remember the man when he was ruling the universe and when the only thing that was "weird" about him was the news of him buying the Elephant Man's bones, then I can understand your questionable support...Your experience with Mike only dates back to the '90s...You grew up with the tabloid MJ, so accusations about child mostestation are just par-for-the-course...This is true of most of MJ's younger fans...They think that everybody is out to get him because, after all, their whole experience with MJ is as a walking-punchline who makes media headlines daily...I suggest that you talk to some older MJ fans who are without bias...I suggest you pick up some old books of the man and clear your head; i also suggest you use just plain common sense and put two and two together...Respect... I've heard all of this stuff about Michael Jackson, I can't change my age so I can't really understand where your coming from. For right now I'll just stick with this: "I'm not going to hurt a child"-Michael Jackson | |
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MichaelsLight said: murph said: You see, I think your youthful background has a lot to do with your defense for MJ...If you were old enough to remember the man when he was ruling the universe and when the only thing that was "weird" about him was the news of him buying the Elephant Man's bones, then I can understand your questionable support...Your experience with Mike only dates back to the '90s...You grew up with the tabloid MJ, so accusations about child mostestation are just par-for-the-course...This is true of most of MJ's younger fans...They think that everybody is out to get him because, after all, their whole experience with MJ is as a walking-punchline who makes media headlines daily...I suggest that you talk to some older MJ fans who are without bias...I suggest you pick up some old books of the man and clear your head; i also suggest you use just plain common sense and put two and two together...Respect... I've heard all of this stuff about Michael Jackson, I can't change my age so I can't really understand where your coming from. For right now I'll just stick with this: "I'm not going to hurt a child"-Michael Jackson Um hello..he already has. No grown-azzed man of 45 years sleeps with boys. period! | |
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MichaelsLight said: murph said: You see, I think your youthful background has a lot to do with your defense for MJ...If you were old enough to remember the man when he was ruling the universe and when the only thing that was "weird" about him was the news of him buying the Elephant Man's bones, then I can understand your questionable support...Your experience with Mike only dates back to the '90s...You grew up with the tabloid MJ, so accusations about child mostestation are just par-for-the-course...This is true of most of MJ's younger fans...They think that everybody is out to get him because, after all, their whole experience with MJ is as a walking-punchline who makes media headlines daily...I suggest that you talk to some older MJ fans who are without bias...I suggest you pick up some old books of the man and clear your head; i also suggest you use just plain common sense and put two and two together...Respect... I've heard all of this stuff about Michael Jackson, I can't change my age so I can't really understand where your coming from. For right now I'll just stick with this: "I'm not going to hurt a child"-Michael Jackson I'm not saying you should change your age; I'm saying you should go beyond it... | |
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murph said: .....The fact is, he got off with a Not Guilty verdict because Tom Sneddon was too emotional about the case; These are things that reasonsable people understand; Hell, even his own family was trying to get the man checked into an asylum after the trial... I don't recall ever hearing this. Perhaps they wanted to get him help with his addiction to pain pills as a result of Tom Sneddon putting him through that lame-o and laughable trial. If it was reported his family wanted him in an "asylum" I bet it was someplace like the National Enquire and they also say things like "Elvis is alive and hanging out with 2Pac." I've said it before and I'll say it again..Not Guilty x 10. And why am I beating my chest with a verdict? Because justice was served and I am proud of justice being served, when a trial was allowed to go through because of an emotional DA.  | |
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murph said: I'm not saying you should change your age; I'm saying you should go beyond it... I'm far beyond my age but I don't understand what that is supposed to do. Please tell me what it is you want me to go back and look up about Michael Jackson that I probably already know. I've seen all the high lights all the news reports tabloid stories...and I'm willing to try whatever your talking about, honestly but I'm not understanding, after I do all this am I supposed to finally believe he's a child molester? | |
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DiamondGirl said: MichaelsLight said: I've heard all of this stuff about Michael Jackson, I can't change my age so I can't really understand where your coming from. For right now I'll just stick with this: "I'm not going to hurt a child"-Michael Jackson Um hello..he already has. No grown-azzed man of 45 years sleeps with boys. period! Do we really need to have this debate? While the practice is creepy to some let me just say..different strokes for different folks. It does happen and it isn't always sexual. Sorry to shock you. [Edited 12/20/05 21:58pm] | |
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jasonstar said:
I've said it before and I'll say it again..Not Guilty x 10.
And why am I beating my chest with a verdict? Because justice was served and I am proud of justice being served, when a trial was allowed to go through because of an emotional DA.  [Edited 12/20/05 22:00pm] | |
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jasonstar said: murph said: .....The fact is, he got off with a Not Guilty verdict because Tom Sneddon was too emotional about the case; These are things that reasonsable people understand; Hell, even his own family was trying to get the man checked into an asylum after the trial... I don't recall ever hearing this. Perhaps they wanted to get him help with his addiction to pain pills as a result of Tom Sneddon putting him through that lame-o and laughable trial. If it was reported his family wanted him in an "asylum" I bet it was someplace like the National Enquire and they also say things like "Elvis is alive and hanging out with 2Pac." I've said it before and I'll say it again..Not Guilty x 10. And why am I beating my chest with a verdict? Because justice was served and I am proud of justice being served, when a trial was allowed to go through because of an emotional DA. I don't know the last time you picked up a National Enquirer...They have become a lot more respectful over the years; Just ask President Clinton...And really, typing out "Not Guilty x 10" is just another way of beating on your chest...It's okay to be happy for the man, but let's not go crazy here...I don't think anyone should be happy that he beat "child moslestation" charges; Again, you never answered my question: Just how is a young boy able to give a vivid description of a grown man's penis? I really want to know.... | |
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jasonstar said: DiamondGirl said: Um hello..he already has. No grown-azzed man of 45 years sleeps with boys. period! Do we really need to have this debate? While the practice is creepy to some let me just say..different strokes for different folks. It does happen and it isn't always sexual. Sorry to shock you. [Edited 12/20/05 21:58pm] Loving overtly skinny women, obsese women or S&M obsessed practioners would go into the category of "different strokes for different folks"...Having an obsession with young boys is disturbing and should not be taken lightly? I would hope that you have more common sense than that... [Edited 12/20/05 22:12pm] | |
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jasonstar said: DiamondGirl said: Um hello..he already has. No grown-azzed man of 45 years sleeps with boys. period! Do we really need to have this debate? While the practice is creepy to some let me just say..different strokes for different folks. It does happen and it isn't always sexual. Sorry to shock you. [Edited 12/20/05 21:58pm] You are a trip yo. Seriously. A stone cold turrrip! :shock: That dove releasing lady aint got ish on some MJ fans. You all ride hard. Hard for him. Its scary | |
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murph said: jasonstar said: I don't recall ever hearing this. Perhaps they wanted to get him help with his addiction to pain pills as a result of Tom Sneddon putting him through that lame-o and laughable trial. If it was reported his family wanted him in an "asylum" I bet it was someplace like the National Enquire and they also say things like "Elvis is alive and hanging out with 2Pac." I've said it before and I'll say it again..Not Guilty x 10. And why am I beating my chest with a verdict? Because justice was served and I am proud of justice being served, when a trial was allowed to go through because of an emotional DA. I don't know the last time you picked up a National Enquirer...They have become a lot more respectful over the years; Just ask President Clinton...And really, typing out "Not Guilty x 10" is just another way of beating on your chest...It's okay to be happy for the man, but let's not go crazy here...I don't think anyone should be happy that he beat "child moslestation" charges; Again, you never answered my question: Just how is a young boy able to give a vivid description of a grown man's penis? I really want to know.... Lets see..for starters were talking MILLIONS of dollars. How hard would it be for a kid to draw a dick on a sheet of paper? Well lets see..NOT VERY. Shit I bet I could do it. It is a dick with 2 balls. Maybe some glitter on it. (Just kidding) It isn't hard to imagine lying and taking a shot in the dark. Now let me flip it around... If you really research the 93 case..you will know..before going to the cops or whatever, the Dad went to a civil attorney to get $! He wanted a movie deal to be exact! Sorry if my kid got molested, I would beat the perverts ass. Not going asking them for $. I don't care how rich they are. | |
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Again...I got love for MJ...I think if you are a true fan, you would want the man to get some help...plain and simple... | |
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DiamondGirl said: You are a trip yo. Seriously. A stone cold turrrip! :shock: That dove releasing lady aint got ish on some MJ fans. You all ride hard. Hard for him. Its scary Is this all you plan on bringing to the conversaton? Let me know so I can brace myself for the ignorance... | |
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jasonstar said: Lets see..for starters were talking MILLIONS of dollars. How hard would it be for a kid to draw a dick on a sheet of paper? Well lets see..NOT VERY.
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murph said: Again...I got love for MJ...I think if you are a true fan, you would want the man to get some help...plain and simple...
Believe me murph..I do want Michael to get help. For a shitty childhood to some degree, for his various addictions to painkillers, and for his need to buy friends and family. However, I don't think he needs help for something I don't believe he did and the court system didn't believe he did either. All there is to it. | |
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MichaelsLight said: DiamondGirl said: You are a trip yo. Seriously. A stone cold turrrip! :shock: That dove releasing lady aint got ish on some MJ fans. You all ride hard. Hard for him. Its scary Is this all you plan on bringing to the conversaton? Let me know so I can brace myself for the ignorance... Jesus himself could bring something to the table at this point and you'd still be metaphorically letting doves fly. Brace for ignorance? You realy really have nerve. My point about MJ's fans stands even moreso. | |
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jasonstar said: murph said: I don't know the last time you picked up a National Enquirer...They have become a lot more respectful over the years; Just ask President Clinton...And really, typing out "Not Guilty x 10" is just another way of beating on your chest...It's okay to be happy for the man, but let's not go crazy here...I don't think anyone should be happy that he beat "child moslestation" charges; Again, you never answered my question: Just how is a young boy able to give a vivid description of a grown man's penis? I really want to know.... Lets see..for starters were talking MILLIONS of dollars. How hard would it be for a kid to draw a dick on a sheet of paper? Well lets see..NOT VERY. Shit I bet I could do it. It is a dick with 2 balls. Maybe some glitter on it. (Just kidding) It isn't hard to imagine lying and taking a shot in the dark. Now let me flip it around... If you really research the 93 case..you will know..before going to the cops or whatever, the Dad went to a civil attorney to get $! He wanted a movie deal to be exact! Sorry if my kid got molested, I would beat the perverts ass. Not going asking them for $. I don't care how rich they are. What report have you been reading????...The kid described the marks on MJ's dick to a T...He wasn't just drawing a picture of a penis on a piece of paper...This is known because police officials had to check out MJ's genitals to prove the accuasations...Listen, if you are trying to convince yourself, go ahead...I'm just trying to show you that not everybody that criticizes MJ is not a MJ hater...Some of us are level headed folks who used to be MJ fans and to apoint still are...I'm one of them...I still listen to the man's past work; But I've also come to the realization that he is sick and needs some help...I would think his hardcore fans would feel the same way instead of playing hide and seek... [Edited 12/20/05 22:23pm] | |
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jasonstar said: murph said: Again...I got love for MJ...I think if you are a true fan, you would want the man to get some help...plain and simple...
Believe me murph..I do want Michael to get help. For a shitty childhood to some degree, for his various addictions to painkillers, and for his need to buy friends and family. However, I don't think he needs help for something I don't believe he did and the court system didn't believe he did either. All there is to it. So you see nothing wrong with a grown man sleeping with boys on the regular. Peter Pan-ish or not? Just needing help with his "shitty childhood" that he has lived over as a good once like 3 times now. | |
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DiamondGirl said: MichaelsLight said: Is this all you plan on bringing to the conversaton? Let me know so I can brace myself for the ignorance... Jesus himself could bring something to the table at this point and you'd still be metaphorically letting doves fly. Brace for ignorance? You realy really have nerve. My point about MJ's fans stands even moreso. You seemed to be only concerned with his fans, just my observation... | |
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