Hip-hop is major influence on lot of young black people I see it everyday my friend. Stuff like "Holler" or listen to the way Allen Iverson speak is a another example. I speak properly but my little brother and his friends always joke that I am to proper or whatever. A lot of young men think that defines their blackness but they are wrong. Malcolm X and MLK were two of the greatest black men that ever lived but they did not talk like that. I have to tell my brother constantly to "Boy, stop talking like that, learn to express yoursely properly"...

I am a 36 yr old black man and i think back about the way black music used to be when I was a teenager.

I listen to current black radio and it just amazes me how it has changed. Rap is ok but I hate the way it is completely dominating todays sound scene. It makes our young men act and talk and dress like idiots with all of that hip-hop slang and it encourages our young sisters to dress and act like ho's. Enough of my preaching.

MOONBEAM

None of the people you mentioned are truly musicians. Just the beats!!!

A lot of young men think that defines their blackness but they are wrong.

I do agree with your points gman. But at the same time, I have to acknowledge that in doing so, we all sound like a bunch of "old folks" who are simply out of step with the current generation of youngsters.

I'm quite sure that regardless of how wonderful the music sounded to us "back in the day", somewhere there was some 40 or 50 year old man saying almost the exact same thing about us that you're saying about the kids today. And again, I'm not saying I disagree with your views, but I do think "our" views is an indication that some of us are just getting older.

It used to be band contests, who was the best band, the best drummer, etc.. Now all you have to do is have a two turntables and a mic it continually amazes me how easily these kids are entertained.

What about artists such as India.Arie, Musiq, Donnell Jones, D'Angelo, Erykah Badu, Mos Def, Outkast,Cee-Lo, Common,etc.. Is black music in that bad of shape with artists such as these on the scene?

classic77 said:

I think the potential is there, but remember, we're talking about the overall state of it as compared to how much depth it once had.

Every era has good music no matter how bad it gets. I've never known of any era in music that was totally disposable.

I'm like Moonbeam about this; I dig Busta Rhymes and Aaliyah too (I've only heard Missy's first album, so it's hard for me to have a more up to date opinion of her output), there are always exceptions to the rule. It's just the overall picture most of us are talking about.

I think the fact that we're getting older has a little to do with it, but I don't think it's the entire reason at all.

The fact of the matter is that many performers today are children of the 80s when Reagonomics had a big hand in taking out music programs during that time in many elementary/junior high/high schools.

What do these kids do? They pick up turntables and samplers. It seems most parents have or had a turntable in their house. But that same money that is acquired for samplers could have been used for musical instruments, could it not? I realize that some kids were finding connections to others who may have had the use of a small studio and/or a sampler.

Don't misunderstand me; I don't totally dislike the advent of the sampler. I think it has its place (just like technology in general), but to rely on it 100% instead of being able to rely on even the most rudimentary of musical skills is part of the downfall of creativity in this era in the music business.

Technological advancements have evolved to the point of making Puffy and those of his ilk a multi-millionaire and garnering attention that some true artists don't even come close to getting. And for the music industry it's truly shameful that "his music" is much more well-known than someone with skills and musical vision like Meshell Ndegéocello.

Yes, it has more to do with just the sampler, but the sampling machine has changed things drastically. It's part of what makes the playing field so uneven when it comes to getting a jump on hearing original music created from scratch - because even if younger fans DO know they're hearing a song that was a big hit back during the 60s thru the early 80s - a lot of fans like the nostalgic aspect of hearing it with inane lyrics and a weak singer or rapper.

Who is that girl that sampled Biggie's "One More Chance"? (I think Biggie sampled that from a Debarge song). That's a record that was a hit about 5 years ago! They don't even wait until the song isn't fresh in the public's minds anymore.

I repeat, I'm not totally against the sampler becuase there is some hip hop I like, and even some R&B songs with sampling I like. But to use the complete bedding of a composition already INTACT just to lazily add lyrics over the top doesn't take any sort of creativity or talent. I like the cut and paste, desecrate it, throw it in a blender, try to make it fully formed, try and make it abstract, method some groups, like Public Enemy did with it.

I think a big problem is that a lot of kids see MTV and want to be that, as opposed to LISTENING to what made the legends legendary, and thinking to themselves, I want to be as good as that. Fortunately, most of us know a world before the MTV era. A lot of people nowadays don't know a world without that channel and other video channels.

It's easier to get a contract now if you're marketable. Or if the big wigs THINK you're marketable. And part of that marketability more than ever now is your image. Video channels have shown us as much.

The biggest difference between our parents' complaints about our music, and our complaints about many of our generation or the younger performers, is that at least most, if not all, of the people we dig had some instrumental skills. Some compositional skills.

We KNOW Vanity, Appolonia, Madonna, Paula Abdul, etc. aren't exceptional singers (I HATE the 80s anyway), but is there anyone on the scene today that can truly be compared to Gladys Knight, Chaka Khan, or even Tina Marie when it comes to vocal prowess? NO!!! It's more about mass produced music now. And those that are producing exceptional music most likely won't get nearly the attention.

I've rambled enough.
[This message was edited Sun Jun 2 1:34:43 PDT 2002 by Supernova]