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Reply #30 posted 11/16/05 10:57pm

CinisterCee

myfatherhadtogotoworkiusedtothinkhewasajerk
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Reply #31 posted 11/16/05 10:58pm

SassyBritches

ehuffnsd said:

SassyBritches said:

i'd like to expound on that last post of mine...

some people have profound experiences that alter the way they see things - be it addiction, death, religious rebirth, whatever. they don't create these things themselves and then write about it; these things just happen and it affects them. i get the impression, over and over again, that more often than not madonna created a scenario in order to have something to talk about. her experiences seem to lack an organic nature that true singer/songwriters so eloquently write about. this is why i think madonna writes so well and so strongly about the death of her mother - it was organic and truly affected her without any of her own fabricated instigation. its also why i think she writes so well about her religious beliefs. most of the time she writes about "issues" it comes off very phoney and insincere. that was my problem with most of music. besides the fact that its all so self-involved, its also all really petty, trite material.


i don't think so. she is good with the songs about expressing yourself. cause that has been her mantra for years. she is good with songs about her mother, and good with songs about losing love. most of her ballads are breakup songs. she has few songs that are about finding the right one. those have only come out since she met guy. I sense a great amount of loneliness in her work. she is the most famous woman on the planet, but does she really have anyone in her life who doesn't want anything from her?

personally, she's made 4 straight out ballads that i like. only 4: playground, bad girl, you'll see, and take a bow.
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Reply #32 posted 11/16/05 10:58pm

ehuffnsd

avatar

CinisterCee said:

myfatherhadtogotoworkiusedtothinkhewasajerk



It's funny that way, you can get used
To the tears and the pain
What a child will believe
You never loved me

Chorus:

You can't hurt me now
I got away from you, I never thought I would
You can't make me cry, you once had the power
I never felt so good about myself

Seems like yesterday
I lay down next to your boots and I prayed
For your anger to end
Oh Father I have sinned

(chorus)

Oh Father you never wanted to live that way
You never wanted to hurt me
Why am I running away
(repeat)

Maybe someday
When I look back I'll be able to say
You didn't mean to be cruel
Somebody hurt you too

(chorus)
You CANNOT use the name of God, or religion, to justify acts of violence, to hurt, to hate, to discriminate- Madonna
authentic power is service- Pope Francis
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Reply #33 posted 11/16/05 10:59pm

CinisterCee

sad
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Reply #34 posted 11/16/05 11:00pm

ehuffnsd

avatar

SassyBritches said:

ehuffnsd said:



i don't think so. she is good with the songs about expressing yourself. cause that has been her mantra for years. she is good with songs about her mother, and good with songs about losing love. most of her ballads are breakup songs. she has few songs that are about finding the right one. those have only come out since she met guy. I sense a great amount of loneliness in her work. she is the most famous woman on the planet, but does she really have anyone in her life who doesn't want anything from her?

personally, she's made 4 straight out ballads that i like. only 4: playground, bad girl, you'll see, and take a bow.



cool... i didn't like ballads for a long time til Bad Girl. I think some of her best work is the slow stuff. Live To Tell Oh Father Nothing Fails The 4 mentioned above Something to Remember.
You CANNOT use the name of God, or religion, to justify acts of violence, to hurt, to hate, to discriminate- Madonna
authentic power is service- Pope Francis
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Reply #35 posted 11/16/05 11:00pm

TRON

avatar

SassyBritches said:

i'd like to expound on that last post of mine...

some people have profound experiences that alter the way they see things - be it addiction, death, religious rebirth, whatever. they don't create these things themselves and then write about it; these things just happen and it affects them. i get the impression, over and over again, that more often than not madonna created a scenario in order to have something to talk about. her experiences seem to lack an organic nature that true singer/songwriters so eloquently write about. this is why i think madonna writes so well and so strongly about the death of her mother - it was organic and truly affected her without any of her own fabricated instigation. its also why i think she writes so well about her religious beliefs. most of the time she writes about "issues" it comes off very phoney and insincere. that was my problem with most of music. besides the fact that its all so self-involved, its also all really petty, trite material.

Very interesting. But relationships, no matter who wears the pants are not entirely under one party's control. As much as she might've created a certain pattern in the relationships she has, romantic or otherwise, they're not exactly something you can control. They take on an organic life of their own and in many cases, just "happen". I'm sure Madonna's about as good as they come at getting what she wants out of people, but I think she's had her fair share of heartbreak. Who hasn't? She's had a lot of friends die. She's dumped and been dumped. She's been estranged from family and friends. She wanted a child for years and years. This could stem from her alleged rape/abortion. She's seen a lot. Much of it out of her control. Her plaintive, soul-searching ballads about relationships come across as very real and heartfelt to me. They're among my favorite songs she does. Even on a cover like "I Want You", I FEEL it.
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Reply #36 posted 11/16/05 11:00pm

ehuffnsd

avatar

CinisterCee said:

sad



that one line in Mother & Father was just summing up Oh Father.
You CANNOT use the name of God, or religion, to justify acts of violence, to hurt, to hate, to discriminate- Madonna
authentic power is service- Pope Francis
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Reply #37 posted 11/16/05 11:01pm

SassyBritches

CinisterCee said:

myfatherhadtogotoworkiusedtothinkhewasajerk

i think that is a perfect example of TRYING to be profound. a perfect example of being disingenuous. compare those lyrics with promise to try, oh father, mer girl, or even inside of me. in those cases she was being sincere and it showed in the work. in the case of mother and father, she was creating drama in order to have something to say.
.
[Edited 11/16/05 23:01pm]
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Reply #38 posted 11/16/05 11:01pm

ehuffnsd

avatar

TRON said:

SassyBritches said:

i'd like to expound on that last post of mine...

some people have profound experiences that alter the way they see things - be it addiction, death, religious rebirth, whatever. they don't create these things themselves and then write about it; these things just happen and it affects them. i get the impression, over and over again, that more often than not madonna created a scenario in order to have something to talk about. her experiences seem to lack an organic nature that true singer/songwriters so eloquently write about. this is why i think madonna writes so well and so strongly about the death of her mother - it was organic and truly affected her without any of her own fabricated instigation. its also why i think she writes so well about her religious beliefs. most of the time she writes about "issues" it comes off very phoney and insincere. that was my problem with most of music. besides the fact that its all so self-involved, its also all really petty, trite material.

Very interesting. But relationships, no matter who wears the pants are not entirely under one party's control. As much as she might've created a certain pattern in the relationships she has, romantic or otherwise, they're not exactly something you can control. They take on an organic life of their own and in many cases, just "happen". I'm sure Madonna's about as good as they come at getting what she wants out of people, but I think she's had her fair share of heartbreak. Who hasn't? She's had a lot of friends die. She's dumped and been dumped. She's been estranged from family and friends. She wanted a child for years and years. This could stem from her alleged rape/abortion. She's seen a lot. Much of it out of her control. Her plaintive, soul-searching ballads about relationships come across as very real and heartfelt to me. They're among my favorite songs she does. Even on a cover like "I Want You", I FEEL it.



totally agree Tron.
You CANNOT use the name of God, or religion, to justify acts of violence, to hurt, to hate, to discriminate- Madonna
authentic power is service- Pope Francis
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Reply #39 posted 11/16/05 11:02pm

TRON

avatar

SassyBritches said:

personally, she's made 4 straight out ballads that i like. only 4: playground, bad girl, you'll see, and take a bow.

You don't like Janet ballads either do you? See, those are among my favorite songs of hers too.
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Reply #40 posted 11/16/05 11:02pm

ehuffnsd

avatar

SassyBritches said:

CinisterCee said:

myfatherhadtogotoworkiusedtothinkhewasajerk

i think that is a perfect example of TRYING to be profound. a perfect example of being disingenuous. compare those lyrics with promise to try, oh father, mer girl, or even inside of me. in those cases she was being sincere and it showed in the work. in the case of mother and father, she was creating drama in order to have something to say.
.
[Edited 11/16/05 23:01pm]



i think with Mother & Father she was trying to close that chapter of her life up. so she summed up the past songs in a few lines so it came across bad.
You CANNOT use the name of God, or religion, to justify acts of violence, to hurt, to hate, to discriminate- Madonna
authentic power is service- Pope Francis
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Reply #41 posted 11/16/05 11:03pm

CinisterCee

SassyBritches said:


personally, she's made 4 straight out ballads that i like. only 4: playground, bad girl, you'll see, and take a bow.


disbelief i'm sure you could fam out with the best of them to this:

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Reply #42 posted 11/16/05 11:04pm

TRON

avatar

SassyBritches said:

CinisterCee said:

myfatherhadtogotoworkiusedtothinkhewasajerk

i think that is a perfect example of TRYING to be profound. a perfect example of being disingenuous. compare those lyrics with promise to try, oh father, mer girl, or even inside of me. in those cases she was being sincere and it showed in the work. in the case of mother and father, she was creating drama in order to have something to say.


I think that's just trying to be silly. Just like "I Love New York". She's allowed to geek out now and then, isn't she?
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Reply #43 posted 11/16/05 11:05pm

TRON

avatar

CinisterCee said:

SassyBritches said:


personally, she's made 4 straight out ballads that i like. only 4: playground, bad girl, you'll see, and take a bow.


disbelief i'm sure you could fam out with the best of them to this:


I love nearly every fucking song on there. drool
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Reply #44 posted 11/16/05 11:05pm

ehuffnsd

avatar

CinisterCee said:

SassyBritches said:


personally, she's made 4 straight out ballads that i like. only 4: playground, bad girl, you'll see, and take a bow.


disbelief i'm sure you could fam out with the best of them to this:




great CD... some of her best songs are on that cd
You CANNOT use the name of God, or religion, to justify acts of violence, to hurt, to hate, to discriminate- Madonna
authentic power is service- Pope Francis
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Reply #45 posted 11/16/05 11:05pm

SassyBritches

TRON said:

SassyBritches said:

i'd like to expound on that last post of mine...

some people have profound experiences that alter the way they see things - be it addiction, death, religious rebirth, whatever. they don't create these things themselves and then write about it; these things just happen and it affects them. i get the impression, over and over again, that more often than not madonna created a scenario in order to have something to talk about. her experiences seem to lack an organic nature that true singer/songwriters so eloquently write about. this is why i think madonna writes so well and so strongly about the death of her mother - it was organic and truly affected her without any of her own fabricated instigation. its also why i think she writes so well about her religious beliefs. most of the time she writes about "issues" it comes off very phoney and insincere. that was my problem with most of music. besides the fact that its all so self-involved, its also all really petty, trite material.

Very interesting. But relationships, no matter who wears the pants are not entirely under one party's control. As much as she might've created a certain pattern in the relationships she has, romantic or otherwise, they're not exactly something you can control. They take on an organic life of their own and in many cases, just "happen". I'm sure Madonna's about as good as they come at getting what she wants out of people, but I think she's had her fair share of heartbreak. Who hasn't? She's had a lot of friends die. She's dumped and been dumped. She's been estranged from family and friends. She wanted a child for years and years. This could stem from her alleged rape/abortion. She's seen a lot. Much of it out of her control. Her plaintive, soul-searching ballads about relationships come across as very real and heartfelt to me. They're among my favorite songs she does. Even on a cover like "I Want You", I FEEL it.

honestly, i think this is the first relationship madonna's been in where she doesn't lead the dance. it is quite easy for powerful people to be in total control. do you think donald trump's wife has ANYTHING to say in their relationship? and prince, does the ol' wifey tell him how to do things or does he break it down for her? i have no doubts madonna was the same way until guy. she finally wanted a family and she gave in to regular married life with him, where its give and take. i'm not saying its not life altering but its just rather uneventful. its so normal. who cares? that is my general feelings for the music cd. "who cares?"
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Reply #46 posted 11/16/05 11:06pm

ehuffnsd

avatar

TRON said:

CinisterCee said:



disbelief i'm sure you could fam out with the best of them to this:


I love nearly every fucking song on there. drool



only missing the Look of Love and Spanish Eyes. it would have been perfect with those included.
You CANNOT use the name of God, or religion, to justify acts of violence, to hurt, to hate, to discriminate- Madonna
authentic power is service- Pope Francis
  - E-mail - orgNote - Report post to moderator
Reply #47 posted 11/16/05 11:07pm

ehuffnsd

avatar

SassyBritches said:

TRON said:


Very interesting. But relationships, no matter who wears the pants are not entirely under one party's control. As much as she might've created a certain pattern in the relationships she has, romantic or otherwise, they're not exactly something you can control. They take on an organic life of their own and in many cases, just "happen". I'm sure Madonna's about as good as they come at getting what she wants out of people, but I think she's had her fair share of heartbreak. Who hasn't? She's had a lot of friends die. She's dumped and been dumped. She's been estranged from family and friends. She wanted a child for years and years. This could stem from her alleged rape/abortion. She's seen a lot. Much of it out of her control. Her plaintive, soul-searching ballads about relationships come across as very real and heartfelt to me. They're among my favorite songs she does. Even on a cover like "I Want You", I FEEL it.

honestly, i think this is the first relationship madonna's been in where she doesn't lead the dance. it is quite easy for powerful people to be in total control. do you think donald trump's wife has ANYTHING to say in their relationship? and prince, does the ol' wifey tell him how to do things or does he break it down for her? i have no doubts madonna was the same way until guy. she finally wanted a family and she gave in to regular married life with him, where its give and take. i'm not saying its not life altering but its just rather uneventful. its so normal. who cares? that is my general feelings for the music cd. "who cares?"



maybe it's that normallcy in music that turned people off. people had grown accomsted to the choatic life she had and the music it produced that the normalcy turned people off?
You CANNOT use the name of God, or religion, to justify acts of violence, to hurt, to hate, to discriminate- Madonna
authentic power is service- Pope Francis
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Reply #48 posted 11/16/05 11:07pm

SassyBritches

TRON said:

SassyBritches said:

personally, she's made 4 straight out ballads that i like. only 4: playground, bad girl, you'll see, and take a bow.

You don't like Janet ballads either do you? See, those are among my favorite songs of hers too.

some of them. she's in the same boat with madonna though. she creates too much of the drama and then sings about it. a u2 line is running through my mind right now: "every artist is a cannibal, every poet is a thief...all kill their inspiration, then sing about the grief." that is poetry.
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Reply #49 posted 11/16/05 11:08pm

SassyBritches

ehuffnsd said:

SassyBritches said:


honestly, i think this is the first relationship madonna's been in where she doesn't lead the dance. it is quite easy for powerful people to be in total control. do you think donald trump's wife has ANYTHING to say in their relationship? and prince, does the ol' wifey tell him how to do things or does he break it down for her? i have no doubts madonna was the same way until guy. she finally wanted a family and she gave in to regular married life with him, where its give and take. i'm not saying its not life altering but its just rather uneventful. its so normal. who cares? that is my general feelings for the music cd. "who cares?"



maybe it's that normallcy in music that turned people off. people had grown accomsted to the choatic life she had and the music it produced that the normalcy turned people off?

we don't want our celebrities to be normal. where's the escapism in that? shit, i'm normal...i don't need to pay 15 bucks for a cd about normality! lol
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Reply #50 posted 11/16/05 11:08pm

TRON

avatar

SassyBritches said:

honestly, i think this is the first relationship madonna's been in where she doesn't lead the dance. it is quite easy for powerful people to be in total control. do you think donald trump's wife has ANYTHING to say in their relationship? and prince, does the ol' wifey tell him how to do things or does he break it down for her? i have no doubts madonna was the same way until guy. she finally wanted a family and she gave in to regular married life with him, where its give and take. i'm not saying its not life altering but its just rather uneventful. its so normal. who cares? that is my general feelings for the music cd. "who cares?"

Except many of the men she's had a serious involvement with have been egomaniacs, jerks, power players, etc. It's not like she's always going after someone to mold like Prince has. I mean, c'mon. Prince? Warren Beatty? Sean Penn? Dennis Rodman? I can't see her walking all over any of those guys. I think she's done a good job at trying to articulate her dissatisfaction with herself and relationships in general. She tries anyway.
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Reply #51 posted 11/16/05 11:10pm

TRON

avatar

ehuffnsd said:

only missing the Look of Love and Spanish Eyes. it would have been perfect with those included.

And Bad Girl and Promise to Try and Sooner or Later.
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Reply #52 posted 11/16/05 11:11pm

SassyBritches

TRON said:

SassyBritches said:

honestly, i think this is the first relationship madonna's been in where she doesn't lead the dance. it is quite easy for powerful people to be in total control. do you think donald trump's wife has ANYTHING to say in their relationship? and prince, does the ol' wifey tell him how to do things or does he break it down for her? i have no doubts madonna was the same way until guy. she finally wanted a family and she gave in to regular married life with him, where its give and take. i'm not saying its not life altering but its just rather uneventful. its so normal. who cares? that is my general feelings for the music cd. "who cares?"

Except many of the men she's had a serious involvement with have been egomaniacs, jerks, power players, etc. It's not like she's always going after someone to mold like Prince has. I mean, c'mon. Prince? Warren Beatty? Sean Penn? Dennis Rodman? I can't see her walking all over any of those guys. I think she's done a good job at trying to articulate her dissatisfaction with herself and relationships in general. She tries anyway.

exactly. she's dated many men that it would NEVER work with. she gets very public relationships, rather short relationships (so there's no commitment), and lots of material...not to mention press.
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Reply #53 posted 11/16/05 11:11pm

ehuffnsd

avatar

SassyBritches said:

TRON said:


You don't like Janet ballads either do you? See, those are among my favorite songs of hers too.

some of them. she's in the same boat with madonna though. she creates too much of the drama and then sings about it. a u2 line is running through my mind right now: "every artist is a cannibal, every poet is a thief...all kill their inspiration, then sing about the grief." that is poetry.



i think Madonna succeeds not because she is a poet, but because she's simple. the pop market is better for simple. the messages and art are left for the videos and concerts, but the music is simple and easy to digest.
You CANNOT use the name of God, or religion, to justify acts of violence, to hurt, to hate, to discriminate- Madonna
authentic power is service- Pope Francis
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Reply #54 posted 11/16/05 11:12pm

ehuffnsd

avatar

TRON said:

ehuffnsd said:

only missing the Look of Love and Spanish Eyes. it would have been perfect with those included.

And Bad Girl and Promise to Try and Sooner or Later.



forgot Bad Girl wasn't on there. great song. Promise to try makes me cry LOL
You CANNOT use the name of God, or religion, to justify acts of violence, to hurt, to hate, to discriminate- Madonna
authentic power is service- Pope Francis
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Reply #55 posted 11/16/05 11:12pm

SassyBritches

ehuffnsd said:

SassyBritches said:


some of them. she's in the same boat with madonna though. she creates too much of the drama and then sings about it. a u2 line is running through my mind right now: "every artist is a cannibal, every poet is a thief...all kill their inspiration, then sing about the grief." that is poetry.



i think Madonna succeeds not because she is a poet, but because she's simple. the pop market is better for simple. the messages and art are left for the videos and concerts, but the music is simple and easy to digest.

i agree wholeheartedly! the poetry remark was a compliment to bono rather than an insult to her madgesty. wink
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Reply #56 posted 11/16/05 11:14pm

TRON

avatar

SassyBritches said:

some of them. she's in the same boat with madonna though. she creates too much of the drama and then sings about it. a u2 line is running through my mind right now: "every artist is a cannibal, every poet is a thief...all kill their inspiration, then sing about the grief." that is poetry.

Except she wasn't creating drama with the "Music" CD. She was already married. Have you seen the documentary that just came out? There's actually a really startling part where she's talking about how she sometimes feels like getting married again was the biggest mistake. She talks about how much he pisses her off and how different they are. But then she says she loves the challenge, she loves being pushed by him, she loves the growth that comes from compromise. These are big lessons for anybody, famous or not. In most areas of life, she's quite advanced. In the relationship department, she's a late bloomer and she's acknowledged this in her documentary and in her songs. It can't be easy to know that you've denied yourself happiness for so long. And it's gotta be tough knowing how many people you fucked over cuz you had no clue how to deal with others. That's what I get out of many of the ballads on "Music" and "American Life".
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Reply #57 posted 11/16/05 11:16pm

TRON

avatar

SassyBritches said:

exactly. she's dated many men that it would NEVER work with. she gets very public relationships, rather short relationships (so there's no commitment), and lots of material...not to mention press.

Well that's a problem then. Dooming yourself right out of the gate. But with Sean, I get the sense that she really wanted it to work. And their marriage was early on in her career. I think that fucked her up for years. But it doesn't make her feelings about it any less genuine.
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Reply #58 posted 11/16/05 11:17pm

ehuffnsd

avatar

TRON said:

SassyBritches said:

some of them. she's in the same boat with madonna though. she creates too much of the drama and then sings about it. a u2 line is running through my mind right now: "every artist is a cannibal, every poet is a thief...all kill their inspiration, then sing about the grief." that is poetry.

Except she wasn't creating drama with the "Music" CD. She was already married. Have you seen the documentary that just came out? There's actually a really startling part where she's talking about how she sometimes feels like getting married again was the biggest mistake. She talks about how much he pisses her off and how different they are. But then she says she loves the challenge, she loves being pushed by him, she loves the growth that comes from compromise. These are big lessons for anybody, famous or not. In most areas of life, she's quite advanced. In the relationship department, she's a late bloomer and she's acknowledged this in her documentary and in her songs. It can't be easy to know that you've denied yourself happiness for so long. And it's gotta be tough knowing how many people you fucked over cuz you had no clue how to deal with others. That's what I get out of many of the ballads on "Music" and "American Life".



i think with Music it was still in the honeymoon phase with Guy. They hadn't even been married when it was written and recorded. American Life was more of the coming to terms with where her life is. i'm sure it must be werid to look back over how crazy and awesome a life she has led.
You CANNOT use the name of God, or religion, to justify acts of violence, to hurt, to hate, to discriminate- Madonna
authentic power is service- Pope Francis
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Reply #59 posted 11/16/05 11:19pm

ehuffnsd

avatar

TRON said:

SassyBritches said:

exactly. she's dated many men that it would NEVER work with. she gets very public relationships, rather short relationships (so there's no commitment), and lots of material...not to mention press.

Well that's a problem then. Dooming yourself right out of the gate. But with Sean, I get the sense that she really wanted it to work. And their marriage was early on in her career. I think that fucked her up for years. But it doesn't make her feelings about it any less genuine.



she has stated that she wanted it to work but they both also wanted their carears and were unwilling to give that up.
You CANNOT use the name of God, or religion, to justify acts of violence, to hurt, to hate, to discriminate- Madonna
authentic power is service- Pope Francis
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Forums > Music: Non-Prince > Your Confession About "CONFESSIONS" Part 2