See, I personally don't understand. Take that pic, change the hair, the eyebrows, the nose and chin and it's the same person.

Ellie said:

no, he is changed inside and you can see that outside
[Edited 11/18/05 2:23am]

Yeah yeah, how many people can say they're still the same person inside as as they were 20-25 years ago? Your experiences and views on the world change. I think it's just the skin colour that throws everyone off, because I find that someone like Cher is far more unrecognisable from her former self.

ConRoz said:

no, you must not know much about michael from any period, i used to think this too before i 'researched', but when you read about michaels life and see interviews and find out the information on him, you realise he was pretty much the same on the inside then as he is now. of course i didnt know him back then, but no one did and no one know him now either but just the sense i get from the interviews and what other pople had to say about him and all.

oh and i know of course hes changed, what 47 year hasnt? but i think hes more of the same person then say madonna is now compared to when she was 25
[Edited 11/18/05 2:37am]

Nah, he lost his innocent view of the world I reckon, and after what he's been through, who can blame him? The trouble is, in public he still acts like he thinks all the world's problems can be solved with a sing-song whilst holding hands

Cloudbuster said:

I don't know much about the symptoms of lupus, personally. Does that mean he'll turn into a werewolf at full moon or something?

Ellie said:

i agree, but i do understand where other people are coming from. i used to think the same.

Yeah, I know what you mean. I know a fan who's an incredible artist. She wastes her talent on drawing pics of MJ though, silly bint. She often takes early pics of him and copies them perfectly, giving him his hair a style from later on, and vice versa - sometimes changing the nose, or taking a pic from the late 80s and changing the hair and skin tone. If you know the famous pics well and look closely you can see what she's done, but a quick glance and you'd think they were perfect copies from recent photographs.

It's quite fascinating, but like I said, a total waste of her talent

Ellie said:

oh and by the way do you have any more photos of this same event?

No, that's the only one released from Oman. Love the shirt Love the hair/wig But why the grey eyebrows? Time to update the tattoos I think!!

Ellie said:

i didnt even notice that.


but anyway i think this picture proves my point the best, take away the black skin and the curly hair and michael looks the same as he does now.

ConRoz said:

Yeah,everybody gets older and we all change(P also) but this is
such a shame.
I'm not the biggest MJ fan(always thought he only wants 2 score and break records)but the man HAS great songs.2 BAD

You what I REALLY hate? It's when people take pics of him as an 11 year old and compare them, with all that puppy fat on his face. When he became vegetarian (no longer one) and anorexic for a while, he lost all that anyway.

Or when they take great pics of him from Off The Wall/Triumph periods and say that they were pre-surgery. No, they weren't.

Novabreaker said:

That's exactly what it means.

Ellie said:

Someting is screwed up in his head, the big change in his face, all the surgery, not normal anymore. It's 2 much!

ConRoz said:

This is exactly why Michael doesn't really appeal to me anymore. I'm not the same fan I was back then. I don't relate to/understand who he currently is or the choices he makes. Some of his behavior back in the 80s may have been considered innocent, cute, etc but at near-50 it's disconcerting. Beauty is in the eye of the beholder but a man who is that unhappy or insecure with his physical appearance is not attractive or sexy. The skin change is just one of many things. The music is another issue and even that's waning for a few years.

The change of the colour of his skin was caused by vitiligo, a disease that destroys pigments.

meow85 said:

ya think?

she was so beautiful in m*a*s*h.

Ellie said:

Hey, I'm an oldschool MJ fan, but this has to be one of the most laughable statements ever posted on this site...Seriously....

hellomoto said:

I don't know about that Katty...That picture basically shows MJ at the start of his heavy plastic surgery use..Some folks were beginning to complain about the changes back then (He had already gotten a nose job during the Off The Wall period), but they were willing to accept it because hs still looked relatively black and human...I admit that there's been a lot of shit said about MJ that can be deemed as "pure hatred"...But since the early '90s, MJ has looked truely grotesque...it's his personal business what he wants to do to his face, but for fans to say he releatively looks the same is a bit naive (Not saying that's what you are doing Katty...just speaking in general...) Just my opinion...
[Edited 11/18/05 12:50pm]

That's why I think MJ's main hardcore fanbase is basically my generation (early to mid 20s). Old enough to remember him at his peak, but young enough to have grown up with the "weird" image and the ongoing changes to just be able to accept it instead of dwelling on it too much.

Ellie said:

I have to know, how old were you during the Thriller years...That was MJ's peak...

Ellie said:

Ellie is one of the most smart people on the board when dealing with Michael issues. I happen to have read, researched, typed Essays, studied, watched and listened to hours of the man's videos, live performances, short-films, and interviews. I also know people who are close friends of his and have been to Neverland. I also went to his trial. The thing is..Ellie is totally right with this above statement. Want some more proof? I'm 20..21 the last day of November. Michael Jackson is someone I could identify with since the time I was younger. I watched films about him when I was 12, and heard that his parents would fight all the time and had issues, and while I came from a nice home, my parents did fight, and it was awfully hard on me. At that time, I didn't have many friends, so I wasn't sure that it happened with many families, I also learned that he was shy, and as was I, and the more I learned of him, the more I admired him and respected him. I still do even to this day. Even more so now for what he has gone through. And oh yeah for more proof..look at my avatar picture and call it a day!

jasonstar said:

I never questioned his knowledge of all things MJ...Ellie gave an articulate and eloquent statement on his thoughts on the man's surgery...It's okay to show support for MJ...My comment was in response to the white washing of Jackson's troubling evolving features...Age should play little part in your ability to acknowldge the fact that MJ has gone overboard with his self-induced physical changes. All you have to do is look at the pictures...MJ has changed physically, and not for the better...I know a lot of MJ's younger fans from 15 to 23 years of age may have become aware of Mike during the Bad years. I understand that a lot of the younger MJ fans grew up during the Dangerous period...But let's be honest...There are enough pictures from MJ's past to point out his disturbing physical evolution. Believe me, you still can be a true MJ fan doing so...

calldapplwondery83 said:

All in one fell swoop, huh? Yep, vitiligo suddenly made his skin all neatly white.

I don't know what's more pathetic; the fact that MJ looks hideous beyond imagination, or that his fans try to delude themselves into believing he looks good.

murph said:

Peak in America sales wise, yes. Discount the USA and Bad and Dangerous weren't far off elsewhere - it was just the US that the big sales dip happened. Since he never toured outside America during the Thriller era, it can't be measured. Bad outsold Thriller in my country anyway. It was the aftermath of Thriller and the Bad tour that the whole "megastar" thing really first emerged.

Oh, and I'm female! And for some seriously strange reason, and I can't put my finger on why... I find MJ attractive Not ALL the time, and obviously more in the past than the present - although I wouldn't say no these days (but definitely not in the freakish 2001-2002 period). Honestly, I can't explain it.
[Edited 11/18/05 14:47pm]

Ellie said:

I think you're right that his fans outside America are younger. I think more of his American fans are the ones who've stuck with him for a long time. It doesn't seem like he's been aquiring many new fans in America, his image is just too weird, and he doesn't get major airplay, except once in a while on MTV.

I'm from USA..Not everyone in USA is against Michael

I'm a very loyal fan.

murph said:

theres no getting through to you is there? lol. whenever i say my opnion you always come on and say the opposite to what i said and then say no one can deny it. but i just did. im sorry i dont think michael has looked grotesque since dangerous. he did for a little while in 2001, and a few more times over the years, but in my honest opinon no other time. im not saying this to be a 'good' fan, i just honestly think this.if i think badly about somehting of michael im not afraid to say it. i always state my true opinons. i honestly do think he looks 'basically' the same since that picture i posted, obviously aside from the skin colour and the hair, oh and an added cleft to the chin. i know its hard to understand as your not a fan, i would of thought the same as you if someone tried to tell me that if i hadnt of been a fan.

thedoorkeeper said:

Yeah that's an improvement. Now if he grew his hair back naturally, he might actually appear human again.