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Printablespeeddemon said:[quote] superspaceboy said: GoldenGlove said: And I still ask you WHY is she bigger than MJ or Prince if she is SO untalented. Concerning Prince, she uses and manipulates mass media, unlike him, who is more of a creative and artistic person. Concerning MJ, that's simple: she's never been bigger or as big as MJ! A proof? Sales For The Week Ending October 30th, 2005. Billboard Issue Date: November 12th, 2005. *Note: This tally does not include sales for The Ultimate Collection (4 CD/1 DVD), single sales, certain music DVD titles (eg. The One, Dangerous: The Short Films, etc.), material recorded with The Jacksons, and Motown era solo and Jackson 5 albums. Weekly sales information for those titles is not available at this time. Rank, Title, Sales This Week, Sales Last Week, +/- percentage Michael Jackson - 14,908 units (Sales Estimate) Notes: Some gains this week, with the biggest percentage gain going to the two HIStory editions. A found-out figure for the Live In Bucharest: The Dangerous Tour DVD - through the week ending October 16th (Billboard Issue Date October 29th, 2005) chart week - it had scanned around 37,170 units to date. Therefore, it's current cumulative sales should be around 40,000 units based on the roughly 2,000 units the DVD shifts each week. Of course, let's not forget 62k copies of the Live In Bucharest: The Dangerous Tour DVD are already sold through The Ultimate Collection (4 CD/1 DVD) boxed set. Since SoundScan figures aren't available for Live In Bucharest: The Dangerous Tour, we can only estimate how much it sold based on the chart ranking of the Number Ones DVD on the Billboard Comprehensive Music Videos Chart. 1. Number Ones: 3,346 (+4%) (Cumulative sales: 992,632 units. Thanks hope) 2. The Essential (2 CD): 2,647 (Sales Estimate) (Note: The Essential has scanned 5,295 units over the past two weeks, therefore, this week's 2,647 sales estimate is based on dividing that 5,295 figure by two.) (Cumulative sales: 81,445 units) 3. Number Ones (DVD/Video): 2,696 (+8%) (Move up 19-16 on the Billboard Comprehensive Music Videos Chart, 84 weeks on the chart) 4. Thriller: 1,896 (+11.5%) 5. Live In Bucharest - The Dangerous Tour (Video): (Sales Estimate: 1,800 units) (Moves down 24-29 on the Billboard Comprehensive Music Videos Chart, 14 weeks on the chart) 6. Greatest Hits: HIStory Volume 1: 848 (+20%) 7. Off The Wall: 463 (-7.5%) 8. Greatest Hits: HIStory (Video): 434 (+15%) 9. HIStory on Film- Volume 2: 242 (-13%) 10. Bad: 196 (+3.5%) 11. Dangerous: 115 (-32.5%) 12. HIStory (2 CD): 105 (+46%) 13. Invincible: 103 (-20%) 14. Blood On The Dance Floor: 17 (-26%) BONUS! "Thriller" - Hot Digital Songs Week #03 (12/10/05): #36 (Re-Entry) (Sales: 9,496 units) (Last Week's Sales: 4,151 units) (+129%) (Cumulative sales: 150,086 units) "Thriller" - Hot Ringtones Week #03 (05/10/05): #17 Week #04 (12/10/05): #8 (Thanks enrico) Madonna - 6,420 units Notes: The Immaculate Collection drops back a little bit, but most ofthe albums/EPs saw increases. Like other acts with new albums, the mnost recent album (in thiscase, American Life) should benefit most from the new album. Also, maybe the documentary raised a litle interest (as the title track's performance from the last tour was pretty darn great). 1. The Immaculate Collection: 2,554 (-14%) 2. GHV2: 487 (+11%) 3. Ray Of Light: 329 (+4%) 4. American Life: 324 (+16%) 5. Like A Virgin: 267 (-6%) 6. Something To Remember: 223 (-3%) 7. Music: 224 (+8%) 8. The Immaculate Collection (Video): 202 (-3%) 9. Remixed & Revisited: 190 (+7%) 10. True Blue: 187 (-12%) 11. Madonna: 176 (-7%) 12. Like A Prayer: 152 (-21%) 13. Erotica: 134 (+25%) 14. Ciao, Italia: Live From Italy (Video): 128 (-9%) 15. Drowned World Tour 2001 (Video): 114 (+4%) 16. The Video Collection 93:99 (Video): 110 (+15%) 17. You Can Dance: 99 (+29%) 18. Bedtime Stories: 85 (+18%) 19. Girlie Show: Live Down Under (Video): 71 (+8%) 20. I'm Breathless: 59 (+9%) 21. Evita: 54 (+20%) 22. Me Against The Music (Single): 43 (+10%) 23. Love Profusion (Single): 43 (+5%) 24. Hollywood (Single): 40 (-) 25. What It Feels Like For a Girl (Single): 29 (+38%) 26. American Life (Single): 27 (+8%) 27. Nothing Fails (Single): 24 (-35%) 28. Vogue (Single): 23 (+109%) 29. Die Another Day (Single): 22 (-31%)  | |
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RipHer2Shreds said: lilgish said: How non traditional forms of dance or (non- trained dancers) aren’t as highly regarded as those with training……Eurocentrism also being a big part of how art is defined; how one sets standards...ie ie [Edited 11/5/05 4:49am] That's fine, and I agree with you, but I don't think anyone here was knocking the abilities of non-trained dancers. That's true. I was talking earlier about how I've worked with and/or seen dancers that would blow your mind, and I wasn't necessarily ONLY referring to ballet dancers, although I am including them of course. I have performed in the past in a production, for example, wherein Mr. Wiggles, Crazy Legs, etc. from the Rock Steady Crew also performed and they are some of the most amazing movers out there. I have also danced with some of the stars of the National Ballet here, and they are equally unbelievable. I personally tend to be more impressed with dancers who are trained though (trained in ANY genre of dance, not just classical ballet) because I've gone through it myself and I know how you have to work your ass off your whole life to achieve that marriage of both technique and artistry. "I saw a woman with major Hammer pants on the subway a few weeks ago and totally thought of you." - sextonseven | |
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lilgish said: RipHer2Shreds said: That's fine, and I agree with you, but I don't think anyone here was knocking the abilities of non-trained dancers. How many contempary "break" dancers are given there proper due, even when you compare them to Michael, who they are superior to. My issue is that alot of these great dancers will always get overlooked to somebody like baryshnikov or anyother famous modern dancer you can think of. There is a pecking order, no doubt. Modern Black dance (hip-hop) is just as vital to me, that's all. I know no one stated the these dancers were not any good, but the artistic value of their form has not been duly recognized and to often given a sort of primitive billing. I'm just saying why couldn't a dancer who does similar moves to Michael be the best? Even with a Black dominant form like Tap, Kelly and Astaire always get mentioned first, not that I don't love them, but they are anointed above Black tappers. [Edited 11/5/05 9:36am] Do you even read dance magazines that are out there today? Are you a dancer? Just curious, because if you kept up with the stars of the dance world, you would see that dancers of all forms of dance be it ballet, tap, breakdance, jazz, modern, etc. (and of all races for that matter) are featured on the covers. They are famous in the DANCE world. Maybe not to the general public, because dancers are usually not household names like movie stars, or recording artists. Dancers dance because of a deep love for it, and not to make money or necessarily become famous (although that's always welcomed of course  ).
I'm just pointing this out because MJ is always mentioned as being "the greatest dancer" only because he's one of the most recognizable celebrities in the world, and in the public eye. There are thousands out there that prefer to perform onstage and not in videos, that are much more talented. The only reason people (meaning the general public) don't know who they are, is that they aren't seen on TV. Dance has always been sort of the underdog of all art forms. We train from childhood to do what we love, and I can count on one hand the number of dancers who are actually millionaires because of it. Unlike singers, actors/actresses, and sports heroes (not calling sports "art", but hey they make ridiculous amounts of money) we live on next to nothing, and most have to go on unemployment in the summertime even if they are contracted w/ a company, because summers are usually hiatus.
And Baryshnikov gets the praise he does because he really WAS the greatest of his time, both as a technician and as an artist of classical ballet. No one before him could do what he did. He elevated the level of what was to be expected from then on from aspiring stars. "I saw a woman with major Hammer pants on the subway a few weeks ago and totally thought of you." - sextonseven | |
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GoldenGlove said: dolphin1974 said: Only just seen this thread so apologies for only responding now, but finally its nice to find someone else who thinks the same as me. I've never understood why Madonna got so huge. With her it was just right time, right place when her fame took off. Hardly ever writes any songs herself, copies from everyone else around her, terrible singer, worse actress....i could go on. Good thread GG.
Thanks you!!  Yes because that peice of shit opinion reinforces every peice of shit you've spouted in this thread doesn't it. You dont like Madonna, fine, dont start a thread on it comparing her, MJ and Prince.....what are you 5????? Madonna cant perform, madonna cant sing, madonna cant dance, she cant write songs, shes ugly, shes old, she makes rubbish videos, shes only good at prommoting herself. Just because you say it doesnt make it true. Madonna's place in history is just as assured as that of MJ and Prince, the only difference is, shes enhancing her legacy with every year she's still around releasing albums, MJ is doing nothing but destroying his. | |
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minneapolisgenius said: Just curious, because if you kept up with the stars of the dance world, you would see that dancers of all forms of dance be it ballet, tap, breakdance, jazz, modern, etc.
I only mentioned race because voices and you talked about the dancers of the golden age in Hollywood. That is the best dancing captured on film, but it was also non inclusive. Do you even read dance magazines that are out there today? Are you a dancer? (and of all races for that matter) are featured on the covers. They are famous in the DANCE world. Maybe not to the general public, because dancers are usually not household names like movie stars, or recording artists.
I do a mean running man, but that’s about it. And while I know mostly about dancers from the entertainment industry, I do have friends who are trained dancers. I do know some of the famous people out now like Joaquín Cortez, who is a star I think, but I don’t read any dance mags. Dancers dance because of a deep love for it, and not to make money or necessarily become famous (although that's always welcomed of course ). I'm just pointing this out because MJ is always mentioned as being "the greatest dancer" only because he's one of the most recognizable celebrities in the world, and in the public eye. There are thousands out there that prefer to perform onstage and not in videos, that are much more talented. The only reason people (meaning the general public) don't know who they are, is that they aren't seen on TV. I know enough about dancing to know he's not the best. I will say he's the best pop star and the greats have given him props. But the street dancers who had some notoriety back then are really at the fringes now and the thuggery in Hip-hop is playing a large part in that. Dance has always been sort of the underdog of all art forms. We train from childhood to do what we love, and I can count on one hand the number of dancers who are actually millionaires because of it.
Unlike singers, actors/actresses, and sports heroes (not calling sports "art", but hey they make ridiculous amounts of money) we live on next to nothing, and most have to go on unemployment in the summertime even if they are contracted w/ a company, because summers are usually hiatus.You can be my private dancer  I'm quite poor though
And Baryshnikov gets the praise he does because he really WAS the greatest of his time, both as a technician and as an artist of classical ballet. No one before him could do what he did. He elevated the level of what was to be expected from then on from aspiring stars.
I know this, he's amazing, he made me a fan of ballet. [Edited 11/6/05 6:22am] | |
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Where's that popcorn eating emoticon when you need it? Damn! | |
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lilgish said: minneapolisgenius said: Just curious, because if you kept up with the stars of the dance world, you would see that dancers of all forms of dance be it ballet, tap, breakdance, jazz, modern, etc.
I only mentioned race because voices and you talked about the dancers of the golden age in Hollywood. That is the best dancing captured on film, but it was also non inclusive. You can be my private dancer I'm quite poor though
And Baryshnikov gets the praise he does because he really WAS the greatest of his time, both as a technician and as an artist of classical ballet. No one before him could do what he did. He elevated the level of what was to be expected from then on from aspiring stars.
I know this, he's amazing, he made me a fan of ballet. [Edited 11/6/05 6:22am] I agree about the old musicals having the best dancing captured on film. Ah, those were the days.  Sometimes I think I was born in the wrong era. Back then they had to be a triple threat. 
I disagree about MJ being the best pop star though. Mostly because I am no longer a fan and can't take him seriously anymore. I actually almost mentioned Joaquín Cortez in my last post as well, because I remember when he started becoming famous (and not just in the dance world) I was sort of shocked because most dancers go unnoticed in the "regular" world. I suppose we could add Michael Flately too.  But I won't. And he actually SAID that he was the world's greatest dancer at one time.
 
Michael channeling Jethro Tull's Ian Anderson 
And I'll be your private dancer if you pay me large sums of money.
Michael Flately edit [Edited 11/6/05 6:50am] "I saw a woman with major Hammer pants on the subway a few weeks ago and totally thought of you." - sextonseven | |
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minneapolisgenius said: I agree about the old musicals having the best dancing captured on film. Ah, those were the days. Sometimes I think I was born in the wrong era. Back then they had to be a triple threat. Who do you like from that era? I disagree about MJ being the best pop star though.
More of a MC Hammer fan I actually almost mentioned Joaquín Cortez in my last post as well, because I remember when he started becoming famous (and not just in the dance world) I was sort of shocked because most dancers go unnoticed in the "regular" world. I suppose we could add Michael Flately too.
But I won't. My friend says he's not really tradtional, It's not my thing And I'll be your private dancer if you pay me large sums of money.
 | |
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minneapolisgenius said: Michael channeling Jethro Tull's Ian Anderson
I wonder if he's playing Aqualung  | |
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lilgish said: minneapolisgenius said: I agree about the old musicals having the best dancing captured on film. Ah, those were the days. Sometimes I think I was born in the wrong era. Back then they had to be a triple threat. Who do you like from that era? My friend says he's not really tradtional, It's not my thing And I'll be your private dancer if you pay me large sums of money.
I love Leslie Caron, Syd Charisse, Gene Kelly  , The Nicholas Brothers, Rita Moreno, (hell, the whole cast of West Side Story) Shirley Maclaine, Ann Miller, Astaire, the old Busby Berkeley films, and Frank Sinatra could really hold his own in the movies he did with Gene Kelly IMO. I'm sure I'll think of more later.
And I won't even dignify the Hammer comment with a response. 
And I just have to laugh at Michael Flateley. I mean, yeah he can dance, but I recently watched the Lord of the Dance show (it was on cable one day) and it looks so cheesy and dated!
is this a Madonna thread? edit  [Edited 11/6/05 7:06am] "I saw a woman with major Hammer pants on the subway a few weeks ago and totally thought of you." - sextonseven | |
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minneapolisgenius said: Syd Charisse What a hottie  great legs
Leslie Caron
not my style, great mover, nice bod, the face was ok, she's good in the movies, esp an American In Paris Gene Kelly
Triple Threat, One of the best The Nicholas Brothers
Ann Miller
My friend looks just like her, I like Ann, who just died recently, cause you can tell she loved to dance. Very strong, exciting, very exuberent she was. is this a Madonna thread? We're confessing our love for dance.  | |
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CrozzaUK said: GoldenGlove said: Thanks you!! Yes because that peice of shit opinion reinforces every peice of shit you've spouted in this thread doesn't it. You dont like Madonna, fine, dont start a thread on it comparing her, MJ and Prince.....what are you 5????? Madonna cant perform, madonna cant sing, madonna cant dance, she cant write songs, shes ugly, shes old, she makes rubbish videos, shes only good at prommoting herself. Just because you say it doesnt make it true. Madonna's place in history is just as assured as that of MJ and Prince, the only difference is, shes enhancing her legacy with every year she's still around releasing albums, MJ is doing nothing but destroying his. You are putting words into my mouth.  | |
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GoldenGlove said: superspaceboy said: And I still ask you WHY is she bigger than MJ or Prince if she is SO untalented. If your good looking, determined, sexy, nice voice, and a massive attention seeker then the world is your oyster.  Good edit there! And it's you're.  Christian Zombie Vampires | |
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----- This thread SUX!... face it. [Edited 11/6/05 14:54pm] | |
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RipHer2Shreds said: lilgish said: Even with a Black dominant form like Tap, Kelly and Astaire always get mentioned first, not that I don't love them, but they are anointed above Black tappers.
 Personally, Sammy Davis, Jr. comes to mind first for me. I have no insight into who comes to mind first for others, nor have I ever gauged who gets mentioned first. I do agree that for the most part "street dancers" or non-traditionally trained dancers don't get the respect they should get. If it weren't for them Mikey wouldn't have most of the moves he does.
...And now i'll be jumping off this latest edition of the MaDULLa merry-go-round.
tA  Tribal Disorder
http://www.soundclick.com...dID=182431 "Ya see, we're not interested in what you know...but what you are willing to learn. C'mon y'all." | |
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100MPH said:
----- This thread SUX!... face it. Best Madonna Thread ever 
Plus the genius gave me a chance to mention Aqualung. | |
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superspaceboy said: But seriously Name one person who fits THAT description, has been around over 25 years and is STILL huge and has REMAINED huge for the whole time.
Answer: No One And I still ask you WHY is she bigger than MJ or Prince if she is SO untalented. Let's forget that we're talking about Madonna here for a sec. Just because one has "been around" for an extended period of time and why X is bigger than Y or Z does not mean that X is necessarily TALENTED. It just means that X is POPULAR. There are plently of POPULAR acts that we both could agree are not necessarily TALENTED. Now i'll really get off of the merry-go-round. 
tA Tribal Disorder
http://www.soundclick.com...dID=182431 "Ya see, we're not interested in what you know...but what you are willing to learn. C'mon y'all." | |
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At her age she's can dance better than MJ can at his...by the way, MJ Madonna and Prince were all born in the same year 1958
 ..anybody remember that crappy performance by MJ[Edited 11/6/05 18:49pm] | |
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chunky said: At her age she's can dance better than MJ can at his...by the way, MJ Madonna and Prince were all born in the same year 1958
..anybody remember that crappy performance by MJ
That performance did suck certainly the dancing wasn't as good as this one, wow great moves 
sure Madonna dances better than a man with back problems that hasn't performed in 3 years. But I'm sure if or when MJ comes back he certainly won't be able to do any of these difficult moves. http://media.putfile.com/w73 | |
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first time hearing it..  This is a good song, catchy as hell | |
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I have to agree with this comment:
Madonna is far from a "credit snatching, talentless fool". She's written some very good lyrics, co-produced some good records and is the main architect behind an innovative career that has so far spanned three decades (don't know where you're getting the "credit snatching [sic] bit from ). As for being attention-seeking, all pop stars are and wouldn't you describe Michael "Kid-diddling" Jackson and Prince as middle-aged? All of the following from your lists could arguably be attributed to Madonna: - revolutionized music videos - Awesome songs such as (insert your favourites here) - Massive inspiration to millions - Gives millions of dollars to worthy causes - Fantastic songwriter - Big influence on the stars of today - A fantastic dancer, performer - Revolutionized the whole 1980's image/fashion & look - is not afraid of change and is a humorous show(person) I'd have to add...that she's sold more than 120 million records worldwide. At one time was the only female who had more #1's than Whitney, Aretha and Mariah! She also sells out arenas and stadiums each and every time she tours...has major commercial relevance than anyone in the business to date! She "Madonna" is the queen of the dance floor...she's not the greatest dancer, but she can definitely "DANCE". She writes most if not all her songs, which by the way have been massive hits for many years. She plays piano and guitar...she is a musician, she learned how to play piano when she was a young girl and guitar...of course just recently picked up the strings in recent years...but lets not forget she played guitar in her first band "breakfast club". She was great in EVITA! She has influenced everyone from Gwen Stefani to LiL Kim! So she has an influence in both Pop and Hip Hop Music. Always groundbreaking! This is not about "ass" or "age"...anyone can see that she's aged great! Her recent performances on Mtv EMA's displays a Madonna is fine shape and she doesn't look her age at all. She is the cover girl for POP MUSIC! Madonna is a very important part of American and World Pop Culture. Everyone knows MADONNA! So don't doubt her and say she's shit... because obviously your missing something! Madonna is just as relevant as Micheal Jackson, Prince, The Beatles and Elvis...because she's reached millions and connected with ppl on various levels from dance to art to trends to sexuality and religion...she's inspired millions and without her...we wouldn't have alot of these young girls attempting to do what she has done already! Madonna is THE SHIT...She rocks! | |
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I UNDERSTAND THAT MADONNA IS JUST JUST PLAIN UGLY!!! That's the only shit thing about her that i can say. | |
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Madonna before 1983 meant the Mother of Jesus
Madonna after 1983 means American Pop Star the word wannabe is in the dictonary because of the orginal fans of Madonna in the Virgin era. First Straight celebrity to appear on Advocate and openly court the gay market. First artist to put safe sex messages in her concerts and videos, long before Salt n Pepa Hallirous send ups of herself on SNL. 85 appearance and all the appearnces she did with friend Mike Myers. raises millions of dollars for AIDS research, youth programs and various other charities. just this year she donated 50000 to her bother in AIDS Walk LA, plus the tsumani benifit and live 8. books written about her image and what it means in pop culture classes taught on her in major colleges. You CANNOT use the name of God, or religion, to justify acts of violence, to hurt, to hate, to discriminate- Madonna
authentic power is service- Pope Francis | |
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hellomoto said: im sick of people saying shes lasted longer then michael or has stayed bigger then him over the years, because its not true. well maybe recently, actually not recently as american life bombed, but maybe in 2000 she was big and he wasnt. but you could say the same thing in 1995, that micahel was the only one who lasted out of the three because he was still big in 1995 and where was madonna? every artist has to fall off at one stage. madonnas was from 1992 - 1997 where michael was much bigger then her. and michaels now has his turn and madonan has made the comback which makes it seem like she was always on top for the whole 20 years, when she actually wasnt. people seem to have the notion that its still the year 2000 and madonnas still wildly popular. im actually a big madonna fan, but obviously an even bigger michael fan, and it just annoys me that he doesnt get his credit. oh and i couldnt wish for anythnig more then the both of them to have huge comebacks.
Michael has accomplished alot in his career,nobody can dispute that.But,like Anxiety pointed out,he's more of a media spectacle these days as opposed to a legitmitate musical artist.Looking back on the last ten years,how many people actually remember his last few albums? Sadly,when folks think of MJ these days,they only remember the child molestation charges,the multiple nose jobs and his freakish appearance. In the last ten years,Madonna starred in the critically acclaimed movie 'Evita',she released 'Ray Of Light' (considered her best work by many),and went on two hugely successful,sold-out world tours.What has Michael accomplished in the last ten years? | |
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She should be shot if only for her "cover" of American Pie...   | |
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MartyMcFly said:
Wait, I love Madonna!!! 
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lilgish said: 100MPH said:
----- This thread SUX!... face it. Best Madonna Thread ever
Plus the genius gave me a chance to mention Aqualung. Yeah, that opportunity doesn't come up often, does it?
Oh, and Robert has something to say too.... 
 "I saw a woman with major Hammer pants on the subway a few weeks ago and totally thought of you." - sextonseven | |
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DavidEye said: What has Michael accomplished in the last ten years?
40+ million album sales Number one singles: Scream You Are Not Alone Earth Song They Don't Care About Us Blood On The Dance Floor You Rock My World Top ten singles: Stranger In Moscow Why (with 3T) History/Ghosts Cry One More Chance Number one albums: History Blood On The Dance Floor Invincible Number Ones The Essential Michael Jackson So there's a few things he's accomplished in the last ten years. | |
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Cloudbuster said: Why (with 3T)  3T
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Cloudbuster said: DavidEye said: What has Michael accomplished in the last ten years?
40+ million album sales Number one singles: Scream You Are Not Alone Earth Song They Don't Care About Us Blood On The Dance Floor You Rock My World Top ten singles: Stranger In Moscow Why (with 3T) History/Ghosts Cry One More Chance Number one albums: History Blood On The Dance Floor Invincible Number Ones The Essential Michael Jackson So there's a few things he's accomplished in the last ten years. Funny,you forgot to mention the career-damaging Bashir documentary and the child molestation trial | |
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