And I'm sure Lenny Kravitz is heartbroken that Smokeverbs is in constant turmoil over whether or not to make a thread about him.

Thievery In Progress:

"White Summer" -- Davey Graham's "She Moved Through The Fair."

"Babe I'm Gonna Leave You" -- Anne Bredon

"You Shook Me" -- Willie Dixon

"I Can't Quit You Baby" -- Willie Dixon.

"Communication Breakdown" -- Eddie Cochran "Nervous Breakdown."

"How Many More Times" -- Howlin Wolf's "How Many More Years,"
Albert King's "The Hunter," Zeppelin's version is lyrically
related to a cover called "How Many More Times" by Gary
Farr and the T-Bones

"Dazed And Confused" -- Jake Holmes

"Black Mountain Side" -- traditional, Annie Briggs, Bert Jansch
The main riff is almost identical to the riff Jansch uses
in his song "BlackWater Side"

"The Lemon Song" -- Chester Burnett (a/k/a Howlin Wolf) "Killing
Floor," Robert Johnson ("squeeze my lemon" lyric).

"Moby Dick" -- Bobby Parker (music), Ginger Baker's "Toad" (drum
solo). The song was originally entitled "The Girl I Love,"
which was written in 1929 by Sleepy John Estes and called
"The Girl I Love, She Got Long Curly Hair." There are also
some drum lines lifted intact from George Suranovich's drum
solo with Arthur Lee's Love's song "Doggone."

"Whole Lotta Love" -- Willie Dixon's "You Need Love" (lyrics).
"Thank You" -- There is a striking chordal similarity to Traffic's
"Dear Mr. Fantasy."

"Bring It On Home" -- Written by Willie Dixon, though the Sonny
Boy Williamson II version is the one which this bears a
similarity to. The "Lemon Song" lawsuit also included
language about this song.

"Traveling Riverside Blues" -- Johnny Winter's "Leavin' Blues"
(music only), plus lyrical references to Robert Johnson,
St. Louis Jimmy Oden, and Sleepy John Estes.

"Since I've Been Loving You" -- brief lyrical nod to Moby Grape's
"Never."

"Bron-Y-Aur Stomp" -- intro lifted from "The Waggoner's Tale" by
Bert Jansch.

"Gallows Pole" -- traditional, associated with Leadbelly. Page
says that his version was based on a cover of the song by
Fred Gerlach.

"Hats Off To (Roy) Harper" -- traditional, Bukka White (song
entitled "Shake 'Em On Down"), also covered by Joe Lee
Williams and Blind Lemon Jefferson.

"Black Dog" -- the vocal arrangement is very similar to Fleetwood
Mac's "Oh Well."

"Rock And Roll" -- drawn from Little Richard's "Good Golly Miss
Molly/Keep A Knockin'" (mostly the drum line).

"Stairway To Heaven" -- Possible (though unlikely) lift from
"And She's Lonely" by The Chocolate Watch Band, which
became the intro chords. There's really no way of knowing
for sure. The solo chords are also similar to the chords
of Dylan's (and Hendrix's) "All Along The Watchtower,"
though the chord progression is hardly uncommon and any
direct influence is also unlikely. A more believable lift
might be from Spirit's "Taurus," an instrumental from their
_Time Circle_ album--the intro from "Stairway" is remarkably
similar, and Page and Plant were certainly aware of the band.

"When The Levee Breaks" -- Memphis Minnie and Kansas Joe McCoy.

Physical Graffiti_ -- The album cover is identical in concept
and very similar in design to the cover of the Jose
Feliciano album _Compartments_, including the pull-out
card and the "hidden" photos.

"Custard Pie" -- Sleepy John Estes did a song entitled "Drop
Down Daddy" in 1935, which seems to be the earliest source
for this material. Blind Boy Fuller recorded a song
entitled "I Want Some Of Your Pie" in 1939. Sonny Terry
covered it with the title "Custard Pie Blues." Big Joe
Williams also covered it under the title "Drop Down Mama,"
and his lyrics are pretty much identical to Plant's. There
is also some Bukka White material in the song.

"In My Time Of Dying" -- Traditional. First recorded by Blind
Willie Johnson as "Jesus Make Up My Dying Bed," which is
more like the Zeppelin version than the well-known Bob
Dylan cover. Plant has cited Josh White's 1933 "Jesus
Make Up My Dying Bed" as the source for Zeppelin's version.
A much closer version appears on the self-titled album
by the Canadian band Fear Itself, whose "In My Time OF
Dying" is credited to Ellen McIlwaine, the band's lead
singer and slide guitarist. Besides many musical and
length similarities, the Fear Itself version ends with
the line, "My dying...cough."

"Boogie With Stu" -- Ritchie Valens

"Nobody's Fault But Mine" -- Blind Willie Johnson (lyrics).

"We're Gonna Groove" -- Ben E. King, James Bethea.

"Darlene" -- One line from Don McLean's "American Pie."

I mean, if this is the work habit of anyone's favorite band, holy smokes and gee whiz.

~ this condensed version is taken from www.iem.ac.ru/zeppelin/docs/FAQ.html#18

If I EVER hear of Kravitz being derivative again, I'm diggin up Nat Turner, Cochise and John Brown.

Greg Russo has written Yardbirds: Ultimate Rave-Up which provides some more thievery from Page's days of hanging with Beck. It's a good read. Read an article by W.Shade, based on Russo's book at:

www.furious.com/perfect/yardbirds1.html
[Edited 10/26/05 13:28pm]

minneapolisgenius said:

Y'know what? I'm tired of replying to MG. She doesnt get it. We are both starting to knit-pick each other and I'm beating a dead horse. I'll say it one last time to her:

I Do Not Like Led Zeppelin Because They Are Part Of A Large Segment Of White Musicians Who Have Stolen And Profitted From Black Art In The Past, While Those Very Same Black Artists Starved And Were Horribly Impecunious. Please Imagine My Animosity While Being Mostly A Black Rock Musician.

But to honor the thread, the main reason why I've been here arguring is this:

I Think That Lenny Kravitz Gets Denigrated For Being Derivative While Others Such As Him Are Lauded, Stinks Of Overt Racism.

So honey, if you've a new reply to those two statements alone, I'll be most happy to indulge you. Until then,.....

I think it's wrong for you to feel...blah blah blah....This is wrong. And it is wrong to feel....blah, blah, insert bitter comments here....blah...

i thought kravitz was the man until are u gonna go my way...thats when the mega poser days began IMO...i do think the general publics opinion of him...(im not talking about narrowminded groupie types) is reflected in this post i found on a news group...


*****
Lenny Kravitz is such a poser. No matter how big he makes his afro or how wide
he makes his bellbottoms, he will NEVER be a classic. Oh yeah, and his guitar-playing talent is on par with an 11th-grade
talent show. He can hopefully do one thing very similar to Jimi
Hendrix....choke to death on his own vomit.
*****


I DONT FEEL THIS WAY...but i do kinda consider him a phoney...more because of his whole love and peace trip...mixed with his fuck shallow models and party daily lifestyle...while being a notorious womanizer and cheating on miss bonet ....musically who doesnt borrow ????? but i do feel like his growth has stopped...he sounds like he´s rehashing past glories these days..

I completely agree with you. It seems like after he and Lisa split he lost his muse or something. After 5, his albums have no spark in them---they are just going through the motions, or as you said, rehashing the past. And I find the whole womanizing of models who are basically his daughter's age a bit gross. My ex and I used to talk about Lenny & Lisa like they were close personal friends ( ) and we would always say, "Man, Lenny really fucked up the whole Lisa thing."

minneapolisgenius said:

Lenny is no different than Prince or myself for that matter. We all blend our influences together to create our "Own" sound. Sure, I agree with the points of Beck and Kravitz though. It was a perfect example of how the critics are and aren't with certain artists. BUT, I also agree with the point u made about how Lenny shouldn't trip over what folks think. I've been compared to Hendrix, Prince and every black guitarist under the sun. That shit used to bug me. A lot.
I'll have just as much Zepp and Sabbath in my sound, but cuz I'm a brother, all I would hear was that I'm the second coming of Funkadelic. Which is cool too. Point is, is that I learned that being an artist, especially a black artist that does something other than hip hop, u are going to catch heat. Period. From black and white folks. You'll have people who will adore u and those who will want you to lose your hands in an accident and shit. But u can't trip on it. YOU have to be at peace with what u do. YOU have to be in love with what YOU do and with who YOU are. That's a true artist. Period.

jone70 said:

Pretty much every rock star in history has done that though.

minneapolisgenius said:

That doesn't mean it's not gross (imo).
Just because 'everyone' does something doesn't make it cool, or right, or not gross, or... you get the idea.

jone70 said:

I didn't say everyone had to think it was "ok" or not gross.

You don't have to keep repeating yourself on those subjects because you've said that a million times already. I get it the first one, and I still don't care if you like them or not. Just don't be a hypocrite about it, that's all.

As for the 2nd, I don't agree. That's just you being fixated on reviews again IMO.

You have implied that I have racist tendencies by stating that I have no ethics for supporting Zeppelin. (re: for not empathizing with the hardships of those particular blues musicians, and supporting white musicians who profited off them. As if I actively set out to slight anyone ) Yet if we flip this the other way around, what does it make you sound like?

You have said for example, in a very snide and negative way: "Bowie wants to be black so bad he married one."

If I had said (or any other white person for that matter, although I happen to be only half-white anyway ) for example: "Damn, Bad Brains want to be white SO BAD playing punk music and all. They only wish though!"....

I would be labled as making racist comments. Yet somehow we're supposed to just let it slide when you say the same thing about white artists.

Ah the power of Google.

Lenny (for the sake of argument) might be original, but when I hear him I think "sounds like Lennon," "sounds like Hendrix," "sounds like Zeppelin." That's stealing just the same.

Chuck thinks everything is wrong. It's just so SAD.

Chuck, anybody on here that has ever read any of my threads and posts KNOW that when I used the word "grandoise" in that manner, they KNEW that I was being sarcastic. I do not think in any terms that being a brother who happens to have rock elements along with funk, is grandoise. Please. And then for u to just take that one phrase and base your whole tirade off of something I was being playful about. You're shooting at a target that's not there, player.

minneapolisgenius said:

This dead horse continues to whinny about....Geez. I told you how I view the Crowes playing with Zeppelin. It's still applicable.




Are you saying I'm a pessimist? I'm offended! No, I'm just a moody grouch. Pop in some good ol' Ludwig or Schumann and I'm peachy keen.

Blackguitarszt said:

If that is your response to my "tirade" and that is the only thing you can take from it, regardless if I thought you were being grandiose or not, proves to me, either you are no philosophe and/or refuse to answer any challenging statement I may make head on. Why not respond to my view on Black rock musicians, even if the accusation in the post doesn't represent who you are or what you feel; you are still a Black rock musician. I've iterated this point of view to several of my friends and we've had nothing but engrossing exchanges.

I got a few replies out of order but I'm sure only one of y'all will bring it up!
[Edited 10/27/05 12:50pm]

minneapolisgenius said:

This dead horse continues to whinny about....Geez. I told you how I view the Crowes playing with Zeppelin. It's still applicable.




Are you saying I'm a pessimist? I'm offended! No, I'm just a moody grouch. Pop in some good ol' Ludwig or Schumann and I'm peachy keen.

Blackguitarszt said:

If that is your response to my "tirade" and that is the only thing you can take from it, regardless if I thought you were being grandiose or not, proves to me, either you are no philosophe and/or refuse to answer any challenging statement I may make head on. Why not respond to my view on Black rock musicians, even if the accusation in the post doesn't represent who you are or what you feel; you are still a Black rock musician. I've iterated this point of view to several of my friends and we've had nothing but engrossing exchanges.

I got a few replies out of order but I'm sure only one of y'all will bring it up!
[Edited 10/27/05 12:50pm]

Number one, I have NO problem answering anything that I'm asked. Head on, backwards, sideways, whatever. I never even thought of myself as a philospher, let alone called myself one. NOTHING u have said or asked has been challenging.

Now, like I posted earlier, it isn't anything "grandoise" or "exotic" of a brother who plays rock. Never has been (blues), never will be. Regardless of whatever perception of this is made by someone else, white, black, etc. It doesn't change the price of tea in China. Which is what I stated clear as a bell in one of my first post on this thread.

Point is, is that I learned that being an artist, especially a black artist that does something other than hip hop, u are going to catch heat. Period. From black and white folks. You'll have people who will adore u and those who will want you to lose your hands in an accident and shit. But u can't trip on it. YOU have to be at peace with what u do. YOU have to be in love with what YOU do and with who YOU are. That's a true artist. Period.

U, the artist, has to keep being true to yourself. If the road u have chosen is a lonely one, so be it. There are others, before and after, that have been down that same beaten path. Maybe the blueprint that u lay will make it easier and hopefully inspire other black kids to ask for a guitar for Christmas or on their birthday. That's something I hope that I can achieve; to inspire inspiration. As I have also posted earlier, many of the same things u have said, I myself have said on various posts in the past.

minneapolisgenius said:

This dead horse continues to whinny about....Geez. I told you how I view the Crowes playing with Zeppelin. It's still applicable.

By the way guys, Let Love Rule is a kick-a$$ album. Remember that?

OdysseyMiles said:

And yes, Let Love Rule IS a kickass album.