SexyBeautifulOne said:

I think it's easy to romanticize someone who is talented and charismatic, as Shakur was. I think it's a bit hyperbolic, though, to say that we needed someone like him, though. There are a number of folks in society at large telling it like it is: Cornel West, Les Payne, bell hooks, Donna Britt, Eric Michael Dyson, Aaron MacGruder, Chuck D. -- to name but a few. No one has gone after them to "shut them up." If anything, because of their respective abilities to make wise life decisions that have preserved their safety and careers, they've been blessed with platforms that allow them each to reach wide numbers of people, regardless of that audience's color, and to still speak truth to power.

To me, they're the type of social prophet you describe.

Shakur was a victim of his refusal to leave a dangerous AND STUPID lifestyle. And, I would hesitate to idolize such a person.

2pac wasn't a gangsta or a gangsta rapper as the media portrayed him.

He was more of a revolutionary, soul rap artist.

Krytonite said:

Tell that to the kid he accidently shot (and who's family he paid off), or to the middle-aged Black limo driver he hit in the head with a bat, or to the girl who got raped by his buddies in his hotel room while he was watching TV

jjhunsecker said:

2pac didn't kill the kid. Pac's stepbrother Mopreme accidently shot the kid. One of Pac's friend was a witness.It said so on the Thug Immortal documentary.

Right and Tupac being the MAN that he was and not a thug, felt that financially supporting the family through their time of difficulty (not paying them off ) was the right thing to do!

2pac didn't hit the limo driver with a bat. He beat him up because the driver accused him of using drugs in the car. The limo driver was the one that got the bat from his trunk thinking that would scare Tupac and his boy. Unfortunately for him, it didn't! He knew he was in the wrong, that's why he dropped the charges!

As for what happened to the girl, That was a set-up.
The nasty little freak gave Tupac a blowjob in the middle of a crowded club right there on the dance floor. She thought she was going to "do" Tupac and when she got to the room and got "did" by everybody EXCEPT Tupac, she got mad and cried rape!

Krytonite said:

[Edited 10/19/05 13:39pm]

SexyBeautifulOne said:

Right and Tupac being the MAN that he was and not a thug, felt that financially supporting the family through their time of difficulty (not paying them off ) was the right thing to do!

Where's your source that 2pac paid off the family?

The limo driver was the one that got the bat from his trunk thinking that would scare Tupac and his boy. Unfortunately for him, it didn't! He knew he was in the wrong, that's why he dropped the charges!

Where's your source that 2pac beat up the limo driver with a bat?

The nasty little freak gave Tupac a blowjob in the middle of a crowded club right there on the dance floor. She thought she was going to "do" Tupac and when she got to the room and got "did" by everybody EXCEPT Tupac, she got mad and cried rape!

Were you there when it happened?

Krytonite said:

My statments were in support of yours, not the contrary. They are well documented in too many Tupac biographies to list. To view them for yourself just google Tupac + each incident.

jjhunsecker said:

Whatever!! Tupac wasn't trying to be anything but Tupac!! The hypersenstive ass media found they sold more when they advertised that THUG persona and ran with it! The reason Tupac was cut down in his prime is because he was EXACTLY what the black community needed...an eloquent brother that could move the masses with whatever the fuck he chose to talk about! And the scary ass motherfucka's in power chose to shut him up BEFORE he had the chance to SPEAK ON what was relevant because they knew we'd HEAR him and UNDERSTAND!! Just like they did with the ORIGINAL Black Panther Party!! You want to keep it real? Then talking about shit you have no knowledge of!!

SexyBeautifulOne said:

Why bother? Were going off topic anyways.

2pac has gone to a better place and nobody knows what he would be doing if he lived.

R.I.P. Tupac Amaru Shakur 1971-1996.

SexyBeautifulOne said:

You're partly right. The media took the thug image and ran with it, but so did Tupac. He was just as responsible for cultivating that image as the media was (unless Ted Koppel or another media personality gave him the "THUG" tattoo). He became that thug once he started associating with Death Row Records and found his father figure with Suge Knight. Before that, he was another kid from an arts school trying to make his way. It's a shame that he became, all on his very own, the exact image of a black male that the media likes to perpetuate.
[Edited 10/19/05 14:58pm]

jjhunsecker said:

Whatever!! Tupac wasn't trying to be anything but Tupac!! The hypersenstive ass media found they sold more when they advertised that THUG persona and ran with it! The reason Tupac was cut down in his prime is because he was EXACTLY what the black community needed...an eloquent brother that could move the masses with whatever the fuck he chose to talk about! And the scary ass motherfucka's in power chose to shut him up BEFORE he had the chance to SPEAK ON what was relevant because they knew we'd HEAR him and UNDERSTAND!! Just like they did with the ORIGINAL Black Panther Party!! You want to keep it real? Then talking about shit you have no knowledge of!!

SexyBeautifulOne said:

Right and Tupac being the MAN that he was and not a thug, felt that financially supporting the family through their time of difficulty (not paying them off ) was the right thing to do!

Where's your source that 2pac paid off the family?

The limo driver was the one that got the bat from his trunk thinking that would scare Tupac and his boy. Unfortunately for him, it didn't! He knew he was in the wrong, that's why he dropped the charges!

Where's your source that 2pac beat up the limo driver with a bat?

The nasty little freak gave Tupac a blowjob in the middle of a crowded club right there on the dance floor. She thought she was going to "do" Tupac and when she got to the room and got "did" by everybody EXCEPT Tupac, she got mad and cried rape!

Were you there when it happened?

RipHer2Shreds said:

That's my point exactly. You can't just blame the media for everything. He choose this persona, and ran with it. Unfortunately for him, living it out cost him his life (unless you're one of those that believe that Tupac was killed by the a. CIA b. FBI c. KGB d. IRS e. George Bush f. New york Times g.any and all of the above ). It's not like the media took, say, Malcolm Jamal Warner, or Seal, or Taye Diggs, or Colin Powell, and portrayed them as a thug, It was a man with Thug Life" tatooed across his gut, for godssakes !!
Like I said before, if you believe that they're gunning for you, it's not very wise to give them ammo to use against you

acting...



and Threadbare, I do think you may put him in the same category as a fiddy cent or a Suge Knight and I don't think Tupac was necessarily just a pure thug with no purpose. Was he misguided in some areas, yes but there was something to him that's beyond just a rapper. Maybe if he had some guidance, that revolutionary that was in him could have been better directed.

We all have a purpose and I do think Pac had a voice but if you don't surround yourself with ppl who will help you to fulfill that purpose, the purpose dies as well as the man.

A number of people are saying that I'm misjudging Tupac and am believing only what I've been spoonfed by "the media" (as a journalist, I always chuckle at that phrase -- because folks tend to believe that journalists make up things and print them as a natural course. But, I digress).

What some folks may not know is that I read a fair number of interviews of Tupac before he was killed. I recognize him for being a talented, introspectful man. I also realize that a large part of his persona was little more than a 1990's, urban update of the rock star routine. Got it.

But, talented and troubled, misunderstood and mischieveous, disarming and gifted -- whatever -- Shakur was a man. And, for all of his intelligence and talent, to me, he was all the more tragic because of the choices he made.

He chose to be a thug. He chose to invest in and perpetuate the life of a thug -- even after getting shot (more than once, I believe). And, as such -- as has been illustrated by his actions and those of his circle -- he lived selfishly and irresponsibly a lot of the time.

If anything, to me, Shakur represents the mis-romanticized black American, someone gifted beyond belief, staggeringly charismatic, but unintelligibly devoted to self-destructive behavior.

And, I hear what you're saying about other black-thought icons such as West and Chuck D. singing Shakur's praises. My point, if you re-read my original post, had far less to do with his abilities and intellect and far more with the horrible choices he made versus the productive, responsible ones they have made that even put them in a position to be alive and commenting on a slain rapper.

To wit, it's undeniable that the folks I mentioned are around because they didn't live like he did, nor will they likely die the way he did. And they're the folks black America ought to celebrate more.


.
[Edited 10/19/05 21:08pm]

A number of people are saying that I'm misjudging Tupac and am believing only what I've been spoonfed by "the media" (as a journalist, I always chuckle at that phrase -- because folks tend to believe that journalists make up things and print them as a natural course. But, I digress).

What some folks may not know is that I read a fair number of interviews of Tupac before he was killed. I recognize him for being a talented, introspectful man. I also realize that a large part of his persona was little more than a 1990's, urban update of the rock star routine. Got it.

But, talented and troubled, misunderstood and mischieveous, disarming and gifted -- whatever -- Shakur was a man. And, for all of his intelligence and talent, to me, he was all the more tragic because of the choices he made.

He chose to be a thug. He chose to invest in and perpetuate the life of a thug -- even after getting shot (more than once, I believe). And, as such -- as has been illustrated by his actions and those of his circle -- he lived selfishly and irresponsibly a lot of the time.

If anything, to me, Shakur represents the mis-romanticized black American, someone gifted beyond belief, staggeringly charismatic, but unintelligibly devoted to self-destructive behavior.

And, I hear what you're saying about other black-thought icons such as West and Chuck D. singing Shakur's praises. My point, if you re-read my original post, had far less to do with his abilities and intellect and far more with the horrible choices he made versus the productive, responsible ones they have made that even put them in a position to be alive and commenting on a slain rapper.

To wit, it's undeniable that the folks I mentioned are around because they didn't live like he did, nor will they likely die the way he did. And they're the folks black America ought to celebrate more.


.
[Edited 10/19/05 21:08pm]

ThreadBare said:

This is where I'm coming from. I'm not saying the man didn't have talent, but people seem to be confusing him with MLK, Malcolm X, or Gandhi

ThreadBare said:

This is where I'm coming from. I'm not saying the man didn't have talent, but people seem to be confusing him with MLK, Malcolm X, or Gandhi

jjhunsecker said:

Oh give me a break....no one has said any of that.

And Thread...its always the possibly that Chuck D and the like were just one mentor away from being Tupac....just one advice that was given.....and its interesting that Dr.west and Chuck would also agree that given direction, you'd be mentioning him with likes Chuck, etc. Tupac really is about the possiblity. What if a father figure was there? What if one different decision and choice was made? How someone bright and introspective can be misguided.

Some can just see his future being something different and very bright if....

I think some are choosing to look at the positives and some are ONLY really looking at the negatives.


I think his life is interesting to look at and examine.

Rhondab said:

ITA!! I just wish more people would actually take the time and effort to do so instead of simply regurgitating media-hyped backwash.

jjhunsecker said:

Oh get over yourself! Nobody's confusing Tupac with MLK, Malcolm X, or Gandhi!

I just wonder why the thought of Tupac Shakur being ANYTHING outside of his talented hip-hop thug persona or even admitting that there was more to him than what was on the surface is so frightening to so many? What the hell are you so afraid of that you won't even consider looking beyond his superficial facade of thugdom? He's dead already, he won't be starting the revolution.

SexyBeautifulOne said:

The day I need to look to somebody like Tupac for guidance or political insight, that's the same day I'll take a 20 Gauge shotgun and blow my head off.
It doesn't frighten me in the least to see and say what he was about . But I grew up out of my notions of romanticizing anybody

And for those of you who believe that Tupac, or anybody for that matter, is going to lead a "revolution" here in the USA, I can only say one thing " Wake Up ! The Sixties are over, man !"

SexyBeautifulOne said:

The day I need to look to somebody like Tupac for guidance or political insight, that's the same day I'll take a 20 Gauge shotgun and blow my head off.
It doesn't frighten me in the least to see and say what he was about . But I grew up out of my notions of romanticizing anybody

And for those of you who believe that Tupac, or anybody for that matter, is going to lead a "revolution" here in the USA, I can only say one thing " Wake Up ! The Sixties are over, man !"

jjhunsecker said:

You should rent the movie about his life that his mom produced. You should hear him speak in his own words about why he was the way that he was. Do you realize the thug that Malcolm X was in his early life? Do you understand the possiblity of transformations? The reason that Tupac could have been more of a driving force to the urban Black communtiy as opposed to someone like Dr. Cornell West is that the average Black person suffering in the ghetto could relate to what Tupac was saying and the way that he said it. How many poor folks in the ghetto, living from check to check, even know who Dr. West is?

Decomposing.