This is article from last year about Mariah Carey and her Plagiarism issues.
Since no one on the Maddonna/Can You Fell it topic seems to think this kind of thing goes on.


Mariah Carey Accused of Plagiarism
Tuesday, August 10, 2004
By Roger Friedman

Mariah Carey's in trouble again regarding plagiarism.

A California appeals court has done the one thing Carey must fear most in life, aside from having to do business with Tommy Mottola again: It's reinstated a dismissed case and given two songwriters who claim Carey plagiarized them a chance to go ahead with their case.

The song in question is "Thank God I Found You," a No. 1 hit Mariah had in 1999 with the group Xscape singing back up and Jermaine Dupri credited as producer.

Songwriter Seth Swirsky — who's got 30 gold and platinum records and is married to the head of EMI Music Publishing — says that "Thank God" is in fact a re-doing of "Just One of Those Love Songs," a track he and Warryn Campbell wrote for Xscape.

A chain exists linking Dupri and Xscape (featuring regular Carey back-up singer Kandi Burruss) to Carey. But more interestingly, Swirsky — who is also well-known as a writer of baseball books — may have the smoking gun.

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When he first discovered that he'd been ripped off, he called the studio where Carey recorded the song, and requested a copy of the work tape that was used when Carey was composing with producers Jimmy Jam Harris and Terry Lewis.

"You can hear Mariah saying to them, I have a tune stuck in my head," Swirsky told me yesterday. "They don't know, they're just writing down what she says."

Work tapes and notebooks of writing sessions have haunted Carey in other plagiarism cases, of which there have been plenty over the years.

One contentious, unresolved case — morally, if not legally — involved the song "Hero." Christopher Selletti, a limo driver, claimed that he wrote the lyrics as a poem, then handed them to his passenger, R&B legend Sly Stone, who in turn passed them to Carey.

Selletti was overpowered by Carey's lawyers at every turn through an arduous process, and the case was dismissed over and over by federal judge Denny Chin.

Nevertheless, questions linger, since Carey's defense was that she was commissioned to write the song as the theme for a Dustin Hoffman movie of the same name. But the movie "Hero" was released six weeks before Carey's workbook says she wrote the song.

Carey also got into trouble with a song she called "Can't Let Go." Writers Sharon Taber and Ron Gonzalez said it was their song, "Right Before My Eyes." Carey paid out $1 million to them in a settlement stipulating that no plagiarism ever took place.

On the work tape for that song, Carey tells collaborator Walter Afanasieff: "It's too much like our other song. ... What was the section from the George Michael thing?" At another point: "You know what doing it this, this way that I was thinking is more like a Janet Jackson thing where it's like ... not that I want to be like her. ..."

Before she spent the $1 million to make the Taber-Gonzalez case go away, Carey sent then-manager Randy Hoffman, partner of her then-husband Tommy Mottola, to see back-up singer Billy T. Scott, who had evidently played "Right Before My Eyes" for her.

Hoffman went in with a wire and recording device, hoping to get Scott to contradict himself. The tape transcript wound up in the public court record, and I got to hear it a few years ago.

"Your actions speak louder than words," Scott — who was also offered his own gospel album by Sony, according to sources — told an unsuccessful Hoffman at one point. "They always have."

Carey has several other blots on her record in the songwriting department, including lifting the music from Maurice White's famous hit by the Emotions, called "Best of My Love," and re-recording it without his permission or knowledge as "Emotions." White called his lawyers, who secured a hefty payment.

"Sampling is one thing," White said, "but she took the whole song."

Carey and company paid roughly half a million dollars to Detroit songwriter Kevin McCord; a musicologist had testified that "Make It Happen," which was credited to Carey and C&C Music Factory, had heavily borrowed from McCord's song, "I Want to Thank You," which had been a minor hit for Alicia Myers some years earlier — albeit recorded in a different key.

But Mariah has quite possibly met her match in Seth Swirsky, who says, "I don't consider her a bona fide songwriter." Unlike the writers in these other cases, he has the resources and the resumé to keep fighting for his rights.

"I'm trying to defend one of my children," he says.

Again, unlike in the other cases, Swirsky's other "children" are famous, including "Tell It to My Heart" for Taylor Dayne, and "Love Is a Beautiful Thing" for Al Green — currently heard in an Almay commercial.

He's had songs recorded by Celine Dion, Rufus Wainwright, Smokey Robinson and Air Supply. His own new album, "Instant Pleasure," full of Beatlesque pop songs, can be heard at www.sethsroom.com.

just a correction, TGIFU was not recorded with Xscape , that song was in 95, the Always be my baby remix. TGIFU was recorded with Joe and 98 Degrees

I stopped reading when I saw Roger Friedman wrote the article. You can always count about five errors in every piece he writes. Here are some of the things Seth Swirsky and Warren Campbell were claiming in their suit: false designation of origin, reverse passing off, unfair competition, unjust enrichment, demand for accounting, constructive trust, and permanent injunction. The melody sounds pretty damn similar, but it's still a tough sell. They have to prove that Mariah knowingly stole the melody. And, the best they have is Mariah on tape saying she has this melody in her head. They also have to contest w/ the fact that she usually credits the songs that she samples. Tone and Poke aka the Trackmasters talked about what a bitch it was to work w/ her on The Roof. She wanted to make sure that the proper originators of the song got credited. Tone and Poke were just going to credit Mobb Deep, but the beat for Shook Ones was also a sample.

laurarichardson said:

nobody said that it doesn't go on. what they said was that Roger Friedman is talking out his ass when he says she doesn't give credit.

roundables said:

Roger Friedman is a joke,isn't he? Spends all his time trying to dig up dirt on every celebrity.Problem is,he never gets his facts straight.He lies,exaggerates and makes up shit.And I'm sure Mariah isn't losing any sleep over this lawsuit.Nearly every artist is accused of stealing song ideas from somewhere else.These type of lawsuits are a yawn.

I agree these cases can be a yawn because they're so prevalent BUT in Mariah's case they're epidemic. I think it just goes to show how LITTLE creativity she has. The "Hero" case is the one that gets me. It's the one where it's obvious that lyrics were passed on to her. Why she didn't just give credit to the original songwriter is simple; greed.

As far as plagarism, yeah, it has to be proven that she knowingly heard a song, stole the melody and recorded it with the intention of not giving credit to the original songwriter.

So I guess if Ray Parker Junior would've recordrd "Ghostbusters" a few years after "I Want a New Drug" he might not have lost his case, yet I hear he's had the same problems as Mariah concerning plagarism. And a critic says both songs sound an awful lot like "Pop Muziq" but see that was over a decade before.

This article on a musicological level is a load of bollocks. "Best Of My Love" has obviously influenced the song "Emotions", but it is a different chord progression. "Make It Happen" does use the same "main" progression of Alicia Myers' song but since when can a chord progression be copyrighted? Name me any song and I could easily refer to another track which sounds harmonically very similar.
Songwriting is all about paraphrasing what you have heard before. Some people happen to be better at it than others.

CynicKill said:

Cynic you do know like three or four different people claimed to write Hero. The only thing that makes me sure that Mariah wrote is the fact that she's re-written in the form of: Through The Rain, Can't Take That Away, and Butterfly. It's kind of hard to claim plagarism w/ Mariah since all her songs center around the same damn theme. All her songs have the same damn characteristics and structure. And, what sane person could come up w/ those lyrics? Mariah's trademark sappiness drips all over Hero.

jjam said:

I agree. Chord progressions cannot be copywritten. "Emotions" to me is obviously a different song then "Best of My Love".

I had no idea how similar "Like a Virgin" was to "Billie Jean" until I heard them seque the songs during the "Like a Virgin" tour video. But you'd be insane to think the songs were the same. The problem is that the music business is big business and everyone wants a piece of the pie, so it's a sue-sue-sue climate.

roundables said:

No I didn't know that. Thanks for the clarrification. That puts it in perspecvtive. I only heard of the one guy's case.

Now for a little confession: "Hero" is probably my favorite Mariah song. Guilty pleasure #1. Sometimes you just can't fight sentimentality (RENT soundtrack anyone?).

I always thought "eomotions" sounded just like "best of my love". I knew they ripped that off.

dancerella said:

that's cuz Emotions is based on 'Best of My Love' by (thus MC's song title) the Emotions. The original track is given the credit in the sleeve notes. It says that 'Emotions' contains parts of 'Best of My Love'. That's not plagiarism...

And it's not really a sample. More of an inspiration, or a tribute...
The same goes for 'Dreamlover' which supposedly (it also says in the footnotes) samples 'Blind Alley' by Emotions. But if you listen closely- it's not really a sample. They borrow a tiny (3/4sec) part of a base line.
[Edited 10/31/05 12:29pm]

rushing07 said:

not orginally though. the first printings didn't have that. that why she was sued.

ehuffnsd said:

Yeah but it's not really a sample. They sound alike. They have similar arrangements. Listen to Luther Vandross' 'She's a Super Lady'...it sounds even more like 'Best of My Love'

BTW since we have a discussion on ripping pll off.

I have always wondered if Diana Ross' 'Missing You' intro is credited in Madonnas 'This Used To Be My PLaygound'...if not somebody should sue.

Do you agree?

rushing07 said:

if the case is legit yes

rushing07 said:

i see...either ways i always thought they sounded very similar to the original. i just thought maybe i was the only who noticed this.

What about K.D. Lang's Constant Craving and The Stone's Has Anybody Seen My Baby?
[Edited 10/31/05 17:51pm]

There are sooooo many examples of songs that sound like other songs.For example,Billy Ocean's 1984 hit "Caribbean Queen (No More Love On The Run)" has the exact same melody (synth and guitar hook) as Michael Jackson's "Billie Jean".


Plagiarism? Or a tribute? Who knows?

THIEF!!!!!

CHIC0 said: