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PrintableThreadBare said: Ottensen said: What is this? The friggin' affirmative action debate of the sexes ??? Contrary to popular belief, husbands and wives can have connected business interests without the husband necessarily running the show: I have best friends from childhood who have made their mark in Hollywood on several cable series, and now through LION'S GATE FILMS as screenwriters and producers thanks to TRACY EDMONDS financial and contractual support, and her back-up against the old school white boy show biz establishment. Though it may not mean much to a lot of you, at least homegirl did have a smidgin' of corporate experience working for her parents' insurance firm handling large commercial clients so that at the very least, she would have skills to aid herself as a producer and properly run a company...I am also familiar with this on a smaller level, having also gone that route and then eventually being a wee young-un producing shoots and commercials, while being married to an extraordinary fashion photographer who basically had NOTHING to do with the day to day operation of the production company that we shared... ...sometimes I feel as if a man in the glamour profession doesn't marry a bio-chemist who graduated from Bryn Mawr, people always assume that he has married someone who isn't capable of being his equal...it's pretty unfair, actually...  Ottensen, thanks for all your wisdom.  I appreciate it. Tracy Edmonds, for people familiar with industry press, has had a very strategic role in the branding of Kenneth Edmonds' career as "Babyface," through the ups and downs of that career.Strategic as far as what? Being at the right place (Whip Appeal video shoot) at the right time back in '89? The man was successful BEFORE she came around. I mean, you guys act like she steered his career and put him in the spot that he's in now. No one's calling her a golddigger or some dingy broad, but let's put things in proper perspective here: BABYFACE WAS SUCCESSFUL, FAMOUS, AND RICH BEFORE TRACY WAS EVEN CLOSE TO BEING IN THE PICTURE. "But what of black women? . . . I most sincerely doubt if any other race of women could have brought its fineness up through so devilish a fire." -- W.E.B. Du Bois -- | |
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TheCrucialExperience said: ThreadBare said: Ottensen, thanks for all your wisdom. I appreciate it. Tracy Edmonds, for people familiar with industry press, has had a very strategic role in the branding of Kenneth Edmonds' career as "Babyface," through the ups and downs of that career.Strategic as far as what? Being at the right place (Whip Appeal video shoot) at the right time back in '89? The man was successful BEFORE she came around. I mean, you guys act like she steered his career and put him in the spot that he's in now. No one's calling her a golddigger or some dingy broad, but let's put things in proper perspective here: BABYFACE WAS SUCCESSFUL, FAMOUS, AND RICH BEFORE TRACY WAS EVEN CLOSE TO BEING IN THE PICTURE. You're missing my point. I'm not saying he wasn't all of those things before he met her. I'm saying he found in her a business partner, someone who could help with the demands of charting his career, as well as his efforts to move into the visual arts. As far as specifics to his career, his last CD to drop a few years ago featured him with a new image, a rougher, edgier look. A lot of that, I remember reading, was at her suggestion for him to update his look. I think, if you consider the direction he took it, they were shooting for some more crossover appeal. Now, being the successful, shrewd business man you're asserting Edmonds has been for a long time, he wasn't just going to change his image at ANYONE'S suggestion. That could get in the way of his making that paper, right? Don't you think he'd be more likely to trust the advice of a business partner who had proven herself to be equally shrewd and successful through the years (i.e., his wife)? "Video ho" (such as it is) seems more apt for the types women who go from the latest rap video to hawking a calendar off their Web sites. Tracy Edmonds has proven herself to be a significant business woman. | |
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ThreadBare said: TheCrucialExperience said: Strategic as far as what? Being at the right place (Whip Appeal video shoot) at the right time back in '89? The man was successful BEFORE she came around. I mean, you guys act like she steered his career and put him in the spot that he's in now. No one's calling her a golddigger or some dingy broad, but let's put things in proper perspective here: BABYFACE WAS SUCCESSFUL, FAMOUS, AND RICH BEFORE TRACY WAS EVEN CLOSE TO BEING IN THE PICTURE. You're missing my point. I'm not saying he wasn't all of those things before he met her. I'm saying he found in her a business partner, someone who could help with the demands of charting his career, as well as his efforts to move into the visual arts. As far as specifics to his career, his last CD to drop a few years ago featured him with a new image, a rougher, edgier look. A lot of that, I remember reading, was at her suggestion for him to update his look. I think, if you consider the direction he took it, they were shooting for some more crossover appeal. Now, being the successful, shrewd business man you're asserting Edmonds has been for a long time, he wasn't just going to change his image at ANYONE'S suggestion. That could get in the way of his making that paper, right? Don't you think he'd be more likely to trust the advice of a business partner who had proven herself to be equally shrewd and successful through the years (i.e., his wife)? "Video ho" (such as it is) seems more apt for the types women who go from the latest rap video to hawking a calendar off their Web sites. Tracy Edmonds has proven herself to be a significant business woman. Yeah, but you're making her contribution to HIS success out to be more than it truly is. I mean, she's his WIFE, so isn't she SUPPOSED to be supportive and helpful in his life on all fronts? What I'm basically saying here is, it could have been almost ANY chick by his side and it probably would not have been any different than it is now. She needed him WAY more than he needed her. "But what of black women? . . . I most sincerely doubt if any other race of women could have brought its fineness up through so devilish a fire." -- W.E.B. Du Bois -- | |
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TheCrucialExperience said: Ottensen said: C'mon now...the woman is an EARLY ACCEPTANCE STANFORD GRADUATE with a double degree...I think with her combination of brains and and good looks she would have been successful in whatever she chose to do with or without Babyface as a husband. I will concede that having a husband with a famous name undoubtedly helped her in the music industry, but, I highly doubt that as a "video ho" she would have had the business acumen necessary to simultaneously run SIX companies spanning music, television AND film, from production to actors' representation, which actually the film and television connections would have benefited far more from her being a native Claifornian SAG model than having a music industry hubby...but alas, we have different opinions so I guess I'll just agree to disagree with you on this one....  Well, I got news for you, we will never know if her "good looks" and brains would've gotten her to where she is now minus her famous, rich husband. Also, if she was all that in the 1st place, why was she trying to get into VIDEOS of all things? 
***** the girl was a model at the time and got a casting for the job like every other model that works with a reputable agency in NY, LA, London, Paris, etc.; you would be surprised how many girls I've worked with over the last ten years who, when thy're not hawking catalog gigs for JC Penny or K-Mart (which, by the way pay an average of 1500 bucks a day) actually have their butts in prestigious universities because 1. the modeling was only a means to an end to pay for the ridiculously high cost of going to a good school in the first place, and 2.they know the shelf life for models is pretty short and have a back-up career planned once they reach their "expiration date".... _____ Oh, and her SAG affiliation doesn't mean a damn thing in comparison to who her husband knew and hooked up with. Where you got THAT idea is beyond me. ***** Beyond her having a SAG affiliation, I got the idea from being actively involved in the "glamour profession" (a lil' title I borrowed from Steely Dan...), and as it were, you would be very surprised how many girls, if they don't eventually pursue traditional jobs and want to stay in the creative biz, use their educational backrounds and work associations to network their a***s off. The kind of people that the average model has to interact with day in and out (and I'm not talking B-list) is very impressive, and if a girl is focused business wise and has enough chutzpah, it REALLY ISN'T THAT HARD TO MAKE HER OWN CONNECTIONS and charge on full speed ahead into a sucessful career as "pick-a-mogul".. i.e., ummm....Martha Stewart(the Breck girl), anyone.... _____ No Babyface = No YabYum = No Soul Food the movie/the series = No media conglmoerate for Tracy. Plain and simple. ***** To some degree, you could be right; especially if the woman would have become a paltry assed psychiatrist as she originally intended. But say she was a person who had always been interested in pursuing an entertainment career on an executive level- I think it's pretty damning against women in general to say that that she would not have been able to achieve mogul status in entertainment regardless of having a sound (and ELITE!) educational backround with business experience... | |
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TheCrucialExperience said: Yeah, but you're making her contribution to HIS success out to be more than it truly is. I mean, she's his WIFE, so isn't she SUPPOSED to be supportive and helpful in his life on all fronts? What I'm basically saying here is, it could have been almost ANY chick by his side and it probably would not have been any different than it is now. She needed him WAY more than he needed her. Man, this might rock you, but it's the truth. Today, more women have their own thing together -- so much so, the whole notion of a wife being supposed to do anything is under serious review. I've dated women who've received some the highest honors of their respective industries, women whose salaries have been astronomical, women who travel the country and world far more than I get out of the state, lecturing and speaking and teaching in national conventions. They haven't needed to buy into anything I've done or show me support, but God blessed me to have dated women nice enough to condescend to put their wisdom and talent behind stuff I've been doing. And, those are just girlfriends. I have female friends of equal stature, professional regard and intellect. Their husbands will be blessed men who also are going to need to be supportive and helpful on all fronts, as you put it. | |
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TheCrucialExperience said: ThreadBare said: Ottensen, thanks for all your wisdom. I appreciate it. Tracy Edmonds, for people familiar with industry press, has had a very strategic role in the branding of Kenneth Edmonds' career as "Babyface," through the ups and downs of that career.Strategic as far as what? Being at the right place (Whip Appeal video shoot) at the right time back in '89? The man was successful BEFORE she came around. I mean, you guys act like she steered his career and put him in the spot that he's in now. No one's calling her a golddigger or some dingy broad, but let's put things in proper perspective here: BABYFACE WAS SUCCESSFUL, FAMOUS, AND RICH BEFORE TRACY WAS EVEN CLOSE TO BEING IN THE PICTURE. Yes, we know this. But she has enhanced a lot of what he's had to offer the public and business sector by way being President of Edmonds Entertainment as well. I don't think that anyone here is trying to give more credit where it should not be due, rather than NOT discount how much of an accent she has been to her husband, and how much of a power player she became in Hollywood in her own right to help open doors for people of color in the film industry ... | |
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ThreadBare said: TheCrucialExperience said: Yeah, but you're making her contribution to HIS success out to be more than it truly is. I mean, she's his WIFE, so isn't she SUPPOSED to be supportive and helpful in his life on all fronts? What I'm basically saying here is, it could have been almost ANY chick by his side and it probably would not have been any different than it is now. She needed him WAY more than he needed her. Man, this might rock you, but it's the truth. Today, more women have their own thing together -- so much so, the whole notion of a wife being supposed to do anything is under serious review. I've dated women who've received some the highest honors of their respective industries, women whose salaries have been astronomical, women who travel the country and world far more than I get out of the state, lecturing and speaking and teaching in national conventions. They haven't needed to buy into anything I've done or show me support, but God blessed me to have dated women nice enough to condescend to put their wisdom and talent behind stuff I've been doing. And, those are just girlfriends. I have female friends of equal stature, professional regard and intellect. Their husbands will be blessed men who also are going to need to be supportive and helpful on all fronts, as you put it. ....and you know what, Sweetie? I bet you $$$ upon $$$ that your level of understanding and acceptance of the female's ability to be your LIFE PARTNER is going to bring you the FIERCEST of FIERCE wives  . I honestly believe that if one has the ability to recognize and accept intelligence, talent, stregnth, and beauty in others, then that's exactly what they will be blessed with from a husband or wife! But occasionally I do encounter the odd person or two (both MEN and WOMEN) who have such an unhealthy view of partners and relationships that the hustler or ho is all they know, and all they ever end up with in their lives; they're completely unfamiliar with the concept of a man and woman working to build a life foundation TOGETHER....  [Edited 10/9/05 15:15pm] | |
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Ottensen said: ThreadBare said: Man, this might rock you, but it's the truth. Today, more women have their own thing together -- so much so, the whole notion of a wife being supposed to do anything is under serious review. I've dated women who've received some the highest honors of their respective industries, women whose salaries have been astronomical, women who travel the country and world far more than I get out of the state, lecturing and speaking and teaching in national conventions. They haven't needed to buy into anything I've done or show me support, but God blessed me to have dated women nice enough to condescend to put their wisdom and talent behind stuff I've been doing. And, those are just girlfriends. I have female friends of equal stature, professional regard and intellect. Their husbands will be blessed men who also are going to need to be supportive and helpful on all fronts, as you put it. ....and you know what, Sweetie? I bet you $$$ upon $$$ that your level of understanding and acceptance of the female's ability to be your LIFE PARTNER is going to bring you the FIERCEST of FIERCE wives . I honestly believe that if one has the ability to recognize and accept intelligence, talent, stregnth, and beauty in others, then that's exactly what they will be blessed with from a husband or wife! But occasionally I do encounter the odd person or two (both MEN and WOMEN) who have such an unhealthy view of partners and relationships that the hustler or ho is all they know, and all they ever end up with in their lives; they're completely unfamiliar with the concept of a man and woman working to build a life foundation TOGETHER....
[Edited 10/9/05 15:15pm] Thanks much. God bless you. And, um, time will tell...  | |
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Ottensen said: TheCrucialExperience said: Well, I got news for you, we will never know if her "good looks" and brains would've gotten her to where she is now minus her famous, rich husband. Also, if she was all that in the 1st place, why was she trying to get into VIDEOS of all things?
***** the girl was a model at the time and got a casting for the job like every other model that works with a reputable agency in NY, LA, London, Paris, etc.; you would be surprised how many girls I've worked with over the last ten years who, when thy're not hawking catalog gigs for JC Penny or K-Mart (which, by the way pay an average of 1500 bucks a day) actually have their butts in prestigious universities because 1. the modeling was only a means to an end to pay for the ridiculously high cost of going to a good school in the first place, and 2.they know the shelf life for models is pretty short and have a back-up career planned once they reach their "expiration date".... _____ Oh, and her SAG affiliation doesn't mean a damn thing in comparison to who her husband knew and hooked up with. Where you got THAT idea is beyond me. ***** Beyond her having a SAG affiliation, I got the idea from being actively involved in the "glamour profession" (a lil' title I borrowed from Steely Dan...), and as it were, you would be very surprised how many girls, if they don't eventually pursue traditional jobs and want to stay in the creative biz, use their educational backrounds and work associations to network their a***s off. The kind of people that the average model has to interact with day in and out (and I'm not talking B-list) is very impressive, and if a girl is focused business wise and has enough chutzpah, it REALLY ISN'T THAT HARD TO MAKE HER OWN CONNECTIONS and charge on full speed ahead into a sucessful career as "pick-a-mogul".. i.e., ummm....Martha Stewart(the Breck girl), anyone.... _____ No Babyface = No YabYum = No Soul Food the movie/the series = No media conglmoerate for Tracy. Plain and simple. ***** To some degree, you could be right; especially if the woman would have become a paltry assed psychiatrist as she originally intended. But say she was a person who had always been interested in pursuing an entertainment career on an executive level- I think it's pretty damning against women in general to say that that she would not have been able to achieve mogul status in entertainment regardless of having a sound (and ELITE!) educational backround with business experience... No, you're taking my comments all wrong. I'm not saying that women can't reach that status, I'm merely saying without Face, Tracy wouldn't be in the position she is right now. "But what of black women? . . . I most sincerely doubt if any other race of women could have brought its fineness up through so devilish a fire." -- W.E.B. Du Bois -- | |
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ThreadBare said: TheCrucialExperience said: Yeah, but you're making her contribution to HIS success out to be more than it truly is. I mean, she's his WIFE, so isn't she SUPPOSED to be supportive and helpful in his life on all fronts? What I'm basically saying here is, it could have been almost ANY chick by his side and it probably would not have been any different than it is now. She needed him WAY more than he needed her. Man, this might rock you, but it's the truth. Today, more women have their own thing together -- so much so, the whole notion of a wife being supposed to do anything is under serious review. I've dated women who've received some the highest honors of their respective industries, women whose salaries have been astronomical, women who travel the country and world far more than I get out of the state, lecturing and speaking and teaching in national conventions. They haven't needed to buy into anything I've done or show me support, but God blessed me to have dated women nice enough to condescend to put their wisdom and talent behind stuff I've been doing. And, those are just girlfriends. I have female friends of equal stature, professional regard and intellect. Their husbands will be blessed men who also are going to need to be supportive and helpful on all fronts, as you put it. Ok, that's all fine and dandy and all, but this isn't about EVERY WOMAN this is about Tracy in reference to Babyface. The facts are as follows: She wasn't in the entertainment field as she is now UNTIL she hooked up with Face. Now, we can speculate beyond all get out but it STILL remains that Tracy needed Face for her career more than Face needed Tracy. "But what of black women? . . . I most sincerely doubt if any other race of women could have brought its fineness up through so devilish a fire." -- W.E.B. Du Bois -- | |
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Ottensen said: TheCrucialExperience said: Strategic as far as what? Being at the right place (Whip Appeal video shoot) at the right time back in '89? The man was successful BEFORE she came around. I mean, you guys act like she steered his career and put him in the spot that he's in now. No one's calling her a golddigger or some dingy broad, but let's put things in proper perspective here: BABYFACE WAS SUCCESSFUL, FAMOUS, AND RICH BEFORE TRACY WAS EVEN CLOSE TO BEING IN THE PICTURE. Yes, we know this. But she has enhanced a lot of what he's had to offer the public and business sector by way being President of Edmonds Entertainment as well. I don't think that anyone here is trying to give more credit where it should not be due, rather than NOT discount how much of an accent she has been to her husband, and how much of a power player she became in Hollywood in her own right to help open doors for people of color in the film industry ... Well, I think it's pure speculation that you're saying just HOW MUCH she's enhanced his career, aren't you? I mean, we don't REALLY know since it's always the both of them on the projects. Not to slight her, but we truly don't know on this. "But what of black women? . . . I most sincerely doubt if any other race of women could have brought its fineness up through so devilish a fire." -- W.E.B. Du Bois -- | |
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TheCrucialExperience said: Ottensen said: Yes, we know this. But she has enhanced a lot of what he's had to offer the public and business sector by way being President of Edmonds Entertainment as well. I don't think that anyone here is trying to give more credit where it should not be due, rather than NOT discount how much of an accent she has been to her husband, and how much of a power player she became in Hollywood in her own right to help open doors for people of color in the film industry ... Well, I think it's pure speculation that you're saying just HOW MUCH she's enhanced his career, aren't you? I mean, we don't REALLY know since it's always the both of them on the projects. Not to slight her, but we truly don't know on this. Granted. Nor do we really know how much "she needed him." Shucks, determination will go a long way. Add talent to the mix of a determined person, and you've got success all but guaranteed. | |
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Ottensen said: KatSkrizzle said: A PAID groupie!!!
what makes you think so? I'd like to see a female become a highly successful ent. executive that doesn't do it off her looks n sex appeal. But I said paid groupie in fun.... it's not that serious, dude | |
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Ottensen, you have small scale exeperience in doing it the pro way. Well, being in the feild at a tiny scale... I can't stand groupie a$$ B%$ches. They're like roaches and are on the come up. Being that I've done what I've done on my ability, they piss me off, and get in the way of those who are actually WORKING. And when I get mistaken for one instead of staff, that shit sets me off.
And this is when I need to go study for my GMAT test and get out of this mess. ANyone that statys in the biz at a local scale for the long haul is special. I've had enough. Y'all can have it | |
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TheCrucialExperience said: TonyVanDam said: CORRECTION: In the 80's, they were called Video Vixens, not Video Hoes! I stand so damn corrected! You are DEAD RIGHT on that! They DID actually try and give them some sort of "dignity" to dancing around half naked back then. The funny thing is the (white) girls in the Rock videos were called vixens but, as soon as black artists began to follow that trend and have half naked girls in their videos, they (the black girls) were referred to as video hoes. It's a funny double standard and just shows how black women get no respect from their own communities, as a "video hoe" is a black term made up by black people. Maybe whites have more respect for their women than blacks have for theirs. Just a thought.  | |
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TheCrucialExperience said: Ottensen said: Yes, we know this. But she has enhanced a lot of what he's had to offer the public and business sector by way being President of Edmonds Entertainment as well. I don't think that anyone here is trying to give more credit where it should not be due, rather than NOT discount how much of an accent she has been to her husband, and how much of a power player she became in Hollywood in her own right to help open doors for people of color in the film industry ... Well, I think it's pure speculation that you're saying just HOW MUCH she's enhanced his career, aren't you? I mean, we don't REALLY know since it's always the both of them on the projects. Not to slight her, but we truly don't know on this. When I speak of her enhancement of Face's career, I don't mean his musical career...I really am speaking specifically about Edmonds Entertainments forays into tv and filmaking... but besides that... ...Baby, baby, baby!!! It's not always BOTH of their names on ALL projects. In the film and television arena she has proven herself to be a real mover and shaker going up against the big boys, and I know this because....well, I have best friends who are part of the Hollywood moviemaking machine, and got a heapa helpin' of support from Tracey's creative and financial back-up when they were starting out. Thanks to her vision and dedication in supporting the black artist in director, screenwriter, and producer, these chil'ren can get movies greenlighted by major studios...the first time my childhood best friend got a 10 million studio greenlight to write/produce a situational comedy through Tracey, I almost FELL OUT...and guess what? Face's name was not attached to the project. I do not want to discount how her husband's name has obviously helped her reach her status in entertainment, I just want to be abundantly clear that the woman would not have been able to gain the respect and attention of HBO, Showtime, FOX, Lion's Gate, be able to get studio heads on the phone AND be able to HOLD HER OWN in production situations with them if she didn't have SOMETHING on point besides her looks.... mmm'kay...I'm done now ... | |
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Ottensen said: TheCrucialExperience said: Well, I think it's pure speculation that you're saying just HOW MUCH she's enhanced his career, aren't you? I mean, we don't REALLY know since it's always the both of them on the projects. Not to slight her, but we truly don't know on this. When I speak of her enhancement of Face's career, I don't mean his musical career...I really am speaking specifically about Edmonds Entertainments forays into tv and filmaking... but besides that... ...Baby, baby, baby!!! It's not always BOTH of their names on ALL projects. In the film and television arena she has proven herself to be a real mover and shaker going up against the big boys, and I know this because....well, I have best friends who are part of the Hollywood moviemaking machine, and got a heapa helpin' of support from Tracey's creative and financial back-up when they were starting out. Thanks to her vision and dedication in supporting the black artist in director, screenwriter, and producer, these chil'ren can get movies greenlighted by major studios...the first time my childhood best friend got a 10 million studio greenlight to write/produce a situational comedy through Tracey, I almost FELL OUT...and guess what? Face's name was not attached to the project. I do not want to discount how her husband's name has obviously helped her reach her status in entertainment, I just want to be abundantly clear that the woman would not have been able to gain the respect and attention of HBO, Showtime, FOX, Lion's Gate, be able to get studio heads on the phone AND be able to HOLD HER OWN in production situations with them if she didn't have SOMETHING on point besides her looks.... mmm'kay...I'm done now ...Uh-oh, I won't say anymore because our worlds may have crossed at sometime or another! LOL! "But what of black women? . . . I most sincerely doubt if any other race of women could have brought its fineness up through so devilish a fire." -- W.E.B. Du Bois -- | |
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