Kurt

VS.

Billy

May the 1st round begin!

I'm sure Kurt will just about sweep this one, and it's a tough decision for me. If we're talking strictly the person and their place in their bands, I've gotta go with Kurt. He's more powerful, more interesting, a better lyricist. But for my money, I've gotta go with the Pumpkins as a band. I love their massive mindfuck guitars. I love their beautiful acoustic stuff. I love their trippy electronica. I love their new wave covers. Billy's just a more versatile writer (or at least became that way). Who can say where Kurt would've gone had he taken a different path. Unfortunately I never got to see him live and I deeply regret it. His death was the celebrity tragedy I've been most affected by in my life.

Oh and good thread. 2 of my favorite bands.

GangstaFam said:

Both Nirvana and Pumpkins (2gether with Garbage and Alanis) were my early teen musical fanatisms!!!!

kurt

altho billy had a nice shaped bald noggin.

i've struggled over this and I can't decide....cobain left a smaller body of work so there's less "flab" but Corgan's a mad batman-villian genius

This is no contest.....

Now, if the question posed surrounded the looks or popularity of these two fellas, then Cobain would be victorious.

But if you're asking who was the better songwriter or more talented musician, then Billy The Goat gets the nod. Corgan was not only a better songwriter who had a wider sonic palette than Cobain, Billy was a better guitarist, instrumentalist (I think Cobain only played guitar), producer and lyricist.

Most of Cobain's songs are Pixies tunes re-hashed. Corgan melded together his Black Sabbath, Hendrix, Cheap Trick and Queen influences into an original sound.
Cobain may have had keener pop sensibilities, but as overall musician, I'll take Billy Corgan every day of the week, twice on Sunday.

sorry, i could never see billy corgan's appeal. he has a grating voice and i think he's had maybe three or four songs i could bear to sit through.

meanwhile, i've played 'nevermind' and 'in utero' over and over and over and over and over again, and i think they're absolute masterpieces from beginning to end. kurt's lyrics were far more cutting, clever and vulnerable. the music he wrote was far more melodic and didn't have to rely on production to be effective. the songs were lean and unpretentious, yet at the same time extremely expressive and interesting.

meanwhile, i nearly fell asleep at the zwan concert i went to.

i don't get how this comparison could even be fair to billy corgan. compare him to, like, pete yorn or something. then i'd be for baldy all the way.

Again...

In reference to calling Corgan "baldy", Billy aint going to win a looks contest. And yes his voice takes some getting used to. Hello, Dylan, Waits, et al? If you're starting off your argument in such a fashion as opposed to music....I dunno.

And you are grossly mistaken about In Utero and Nevermind being masterpieces as well. Essentially, they are Pixie knock-offs. Dont believe me? Go listen to anything Frank Black/Black Francis ever wrote prior to '91 and you'll hear the Nirvana blueprint. And what they are is more accessible as compared to Corgan's first efforts, Gish and Siamese Dream, with the latter being the only thing in which the superlative "masterpiece" is appropriate.

In terms of lyrics, maybe you could place an argument for Cobain. I mean, after he swiped Black Francis' hooks and soft/loud arrangements, he left behind the Pixies frontman's obscure lyrics for his own of angst and self-effacing ones. But to suggest that Cobain had better melodies calls into question taste. Billy Corgan's melodies are supremely better than Cobain's. You cant name one Nirvana melody that is more memorable or lyrical than the Smashing Pumpkins! Corgan had a better grip on music as a science (his father was a jazzer) and of course, this coupled with natural talent, led to better colors in sound, melodies, interesting song arrangements, and production. Stripped bare, would you rather listen to "1979" or "Smells Like Teen Spirit"?

Zwan is/was a shot in the dark. I dont see why your holding that record against the best of Corgan. Prince released Lovesexy...nuff said.

Comparing Billy Corgan to Pete Yorn....man you've lost your damn mind. Yorn? He spoke to a cult following. Corgan? He spoke to my generation.

After years of being a corganite who has all the b sides yadda yadda etc etc, I am finally loosing respect for Billy. Publicly blaming James for the break up of the pumpkins, then announcing the he wants to get the pumpkins back together in a full page article in the Chicago Sun Times on the day of his solo release.. the myspace blogs telling his life story, with revealing details about some very personal things that went on with the band, maybe that part is not so bad, however it all seems like publicity stunt after publicity stunt. Like Hey I'm still around somebody pay attention to me! Where as though Billy and his band used to be more about the music. I heard a old interview where the band was saying that very few interviews ask questions about the music itself, instead they would rather focused on the dysfunction within the band, and how annoying it is that the mainstream media would rather focus on things like that instead of the music, and that they must be boring band because all they really do is play. These days it seems like Corgan wants to reveal as much inside nobody business stuff as possible to get attention.


I met him at the taping for the Chicago songs DVD and talk to him on and off for over a hour, he seemed to hint that he missed being in the lime light so to speak.

With all that said I think I would rather go back and listen to Kurt, I think Kurt was more sincere in some areas.

I choose Kurt. Corgan is a better musician, but Kurt was better at everything else. Including making songs for Courtney.

I guess the author of this thread should've prefaced it with Cobain vs. Corgan: Who's A Better Person or Better Looking or Most Sincere?

Because as of yet, no one can provide examples of Cobain being a better musician/songwriter, the only thing I'm concerned with.

If I wanted a musician who is/was nice and sincere, I'd choose Richard Marx. But this is Cobain vs. Corgan, two of the 90's most respected recording artists. Cobain was a drug riddled, self-loathing coward while Corgan was/is a walking douchebag.

Let's start talking music, not personality types.

chuckaducci said:

I made this thread in order 2 discuss the music output and talent of these two.....

chuckaducci said:

i think i mentioned a lot about cobain's songwriting chops, and i don't think i said one single thing about cobain's looks or personality. you, however, did.

i'm well aware that cobain borrowed more than a little from the pixies - cobain was among the first to admit that - but he was able to borrow from them in a way that complimented his own ideas as a songwriter, and the results were overwhelmingly successful.

i'd really rather leave the whole "self-loathing drug addict" element out of this discussion, or else we'd have to dismiss just about every classic blues musician who influenced the rock stars we celebrate today.

i think i mentioned a lot about cobain's songwriting chops, and i don't think i said one single thing about cobain's looks or personality. you, however, did.

Um...you referred to Corgan as "baldy" in your initial post. More than once. You werent talking about "Cupid De Locke" but his looks right?

i'm well aware that cobain borrowed more than a little from the pixies - cobain was among the first to admit that - but he was able to borrow from them in a way that complimented his own ideas as a songwriter, and the results were overwhelmingly successful.

Good. Then you should be well aware that Cobain swiped the Pixies songbook verbatim. From the soft and quiet verse to the loud chorus. Cobain simply took inaccessbile Pixie tunes, dumbed them down, and then brought them to the mass market a la Elvis Presley bringing Black music to Ed Sullivan. I'm not saying that Cobain isnt catchy. But Cobain is catchy and blatantly plagiaristic. Poster boys who kill themselves at the height of their popularity will always be martyred and their legacy exaggerated.

i'd really rather leave the whole "self-loathing drug addict" element out of this discussion, or else we'd have to dismiss just about every classic blues musician who influenced the rock stars we celebrate today.

I'm willing as well. But when people start talking about the character flaws found in Corgan, isnt it fair to bring up Cobain's as well?

Ooh, this is a good one.

chuckaducci said:

Not that Anx needs defending, but I don't see a connection between his opinion of Corgan and him using the affectionate nickname 'baldy'. He said he fell asleep at the Zwan show because they were boring, not because Corgan is bald.

And if Cobain is as blatantly plagaristic as you claim then shouldn't Frank Black be suing somebody?

chuckaducci said:

not when you're asking others to refrain from doing exactly that. i mean, heck, do what you want, but don't get upset when people are taking the conversation away from your focus because they're responding to your digressions. you know?

and cobain did not "swipe the pixies songbook verbatim", any more than he kept it a secret that he was influenced by their music. a lot of nirvana's stuff sounds like a lot of other bands he admired - the meat puppets, sonic youth, etc. - but kurt certainly didn't hold a monopoly on borrowing from other group's styles to inform his own sound. so what?

i think your harping on my off-handedly calling corgan "baldy" is a little excessive. so he's an idol of yours. sorry. i'm sure he's a lovely person, and certainly a fine and highly competent craftsman of pop music. but i PERSONALLY don't think - and this has to do solely with the MUSIC i've heard, and not the personalities of the artists in question - that corgan's work is anywhere near as engaging as the output cobain left behind.

again - sorry. you're permitted to hold an opposite opinion. please allow me the same courtesy.

Anxiety said:

He really isn't.

TRON said:

well, i tried.

Anxiety said:

I'm able to look past his numerous flaws and still love the guy, but he really is a total Assmaster.

TRON said:

I bumped into James Iha on Saturday at the Sahara Hotnights show at Mercury Lounge. I should have asked him if Billy is really an assmaster.

sextonseven said:

Oh, the missed opportunities!

Is this based on who wrote the better Hole album?

CinisterCee said:

I mentioned that in my post. Kurt wins.

sextonseven said:

ASSMASTER IS VERY MYSTERIOUS!!!

CinisterCee said:

We all know the answer to that.

TRON said:

i prefer the one that sounds like a pixies ripoff to the one that sounds like a fleetwood mac ripoff.

Anxiety said:

HOW DO YOU KNOW DAT!?

Anxiety said:

I just saw this bit for the first time this weekend. She was criticizing the Asian chicken salad or something.