PFunkjazz said:

Man, PLEASE don't get me started on my boy Ernie. Please don't.

YES!!!.."Go For Your Guns" is the shit!! That was my 1st Isley's LP when I was a kid..and black folks were playing the shit out of that record at the barbeques, birthday and "sneak in-but-I-had-no-business-in-there" blue light basement parties. The Isleys had that groove going so strong the guitar just added more depth to the songs (and people were OK with it).

PFunkjazz said:

Yeah, but I don't mean to just single out VTA. look at "Who Loves You Better", or "Hope You Feel Better Love" in each of those cases, there's still a place for Ernie's guitar solos. it's not just tacked on....

I guess what I'm getting at is that I've heard some Black Rock that's not quite there compositionally, where they're playing guitar just cause they can....



...

paligap said:

Don't be defensive; you picked an excellent example.

"VTA" has its appeal because it is smooth r&b and this is the kind of "lead" guitar most black folks want. It's not "all over the place" and mixed more to the back than on the songs I mentioned. Those are hardcore rock songs.

I find "Hope You Feel Better" and "Who Loves You Better" to be more r&b-ish. The really rock stuff is on LIVE IT UP!. "Midnight Sky", "Lover's Eve" and "Ain't I Been Good To You" are killers. My fantasy is Ernie strips down to a rock trio and features tunes like these in his show.

I thought Robin Trower was black at first when I first heard him

Meloh9 said:

That's cuz he sounds so much like Jimi. Listen to Frank Marino of Mahogany Rush.

In every interview I've read with Robin Trower, he always states his love for black music. "Too Rolling Stoned" is funky as hell, imo. S**t, that whole "Bridges of Sighs" album is classic. To this day, I can listen to it from start to finish. It just evokes a mood.

As far as Ernie Isley solos are concerned, you can't forget "Love Fever" from the Showdown album. Haven't seen it on CD yet (I have it on cassette). Also features a cool solo on "Ain't Givin' Up on Love".

Speaking of Babyface, I saw him bust out with an electric guitar solo on Jay Leno about a month ago. He did it again recently on a BET Sunday special. I forget that he started out on guitar. It was a cool solo and the audience (primarily african-american) ate it up. Honestly, it might have been because it was unexpected, but it was a real encouraging sign, nonetheless.

paligap said:

I understand exactly what you're saying.

The guitar solo will find more acceptance if it's a more melodic one and an integral part of a good song.

An artist that has also managed to utilize this technique successfully in the past is Bobby Womack...



...Truth be told, this brother can really play guitar.
And is also a member in good standing of the lefty-upside down club.

On tunes like That's The Way I Feel About 'Cha, I Can Understand It, Lookin' For A Love, etc, he doesn't play the "big solo" but injects very melodic licks/lines using a sinewy singing tone as opposed to a raw raucous rock tone.


tA

Tribal Disorder

http://www.soundclick.com...dID=182431
[Edited 10/25/05 7:33am]

Meloh9 said:

Tonight on Nightline, B.B. King commented on the fact his appearance at The Fillmore West in '68 signaled a permanent change in the color of his audience.

He felt that the majority of the black audience didn't think guitar playing in a blues context was hip and didn't fit into the New Consciousness.



tA

Tribal Disorder

http://www.soundclick.com...dID=182431

theAudience said:

I never took time to double click the TA in your sig, that tibal disorder is really good, is that your project?

since were talkin about black guitar bein accepted with the isleys, we cant leave out the ohio players or roger and zapp. can u imagine "love rollercoaster" or "fopp" without that funky rythmn guitar at the beginning? or how roger layed his george benson influenced jazz sting on all those zapp jams?

Meloh9 said:

Yes. If it's the one i'm thinking off, it's just a down&dirty demo.
Done to get it down before I forgot the groove/melodies and ship it off for copyright.

Thanks for the listen.


tA

Tribal Disorder

http://www.soundclick.com...dID=182431

theAudience said:

Do you think it's true that, as some people have suggested, a lot of African- Americans connect the blues with a painful part of our past, so we have a tendency to try to distance ourselves from it?


...

paligap said:

I luv da bluz
She heard my cry

theAudience said:

Bobby Womack is a great guitarist, I love his licks on the songs you mentioned and I LOVE his understated playing on his remake of Close To You from the Communication album.

sinisterpentatonic said:

I'm not really that hip into Benny Goodman's music but I bought most of his small sextet combo recording sessions with Charlie Christian. His recordings with Teddy Wilson, Lionel Hampton and that wild white drummer(4got his name) are off the hook!


Mr.Christian is the MASTER of the Electric Guitar as far as I'm concerned

Harlepolis said:

This disc title probably says it best...



...The Original Guitar Hero


Maybe the "wild white drummer" you're thinking of is...



...Gene Krupa


tA


Tribal Disorder

http://www.soundclick.com...dID=182431

paligap said:

I believe that has a lot to do with it depending on the age group.

For many in the younger crowd, they just don't know the history behind it and don't associate it with anything Black.

Quite a shame.


tA


Tribal Disorder

http://www.soundclick.com...dID=182431

theAudience said:

Thats him

The sweaty, head banging, greasy hair flowing motherfucker those footages of him with the sextet are priceless.

If I'm not mistaken, he was notorious for his drug habbit too(like most of them) they truely paraded his ass like they did to Lady Day.

P.S. I own that boxet

PFunkjazz said:

You ain't slick...



...That one wasn't gonna slip by.


I know paligap would've caught it.


tA


Tribal Disorder

http://www.soundclick.com...dID=182431

theAudience said:

I wuz waitin' for you to drop down on it,

Thank u, pali!

Let's get real folks.
Lack of talent killed the black guitar player.
nothing more nothing less

paligap said:

yea that's the ticket.

DaX said:

sorry but that's just wrong on so many levels. There have been plenty of talented black guitar players since Jimi Hendrix: Ernie Isley, Eddie Hazel, Michael Hampton, Vernon Reid, and those are just some of the more famous ones. I'm sure my bros TA and pali could really set you straight but I'll just give you one shining example of how the racism and taxonomizing segregration of the corporate music industry and their unwillingness to promote black music is the real cause for the seeming lack of high profile black guitar virtuosos. You're probably familiar with Eddie Van Halen and how he introduced "tapping" to the rock world (although there were undoubtedly jazz and prog guitarists who'd used that technique before). Well, a few years later a jazz guitarist by the name of stanley jordan recorded some albums using tapping but not in the comparatively simple, gimmicky way that Eddie used it (and that's not intended to be a diss on Eddie either). The dude plays the guitar like a piano, striding and chording with one hand and doing runs with the other or executing two simultaneous lines at the same time (he could even play two guitars at once). this is a very unique and innovative way of playing the guitar and practically nobody's heard of him and I'm sorry but there's little reasonable explanation other than 1.The suits don't promote jazz and 2. They don't care about black musicians.

DaX said:

I'd like to hear you tell, Greg Howe, Tony McAlpine, Eric Gales and the cat who plays in Sammy Hagar's band that to their faces...

jacktheimprovident said:

JesseDezz said:

That's an old aquaintance of mine and former Bus Boys guitarist...



...Victor Johnson.


tA

Tribal Disorder

http://www.soundclick.com...dID=182431