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Printablechuckaducci said: Look, it's cool that everyone wants to give props to Africa concerning the origins of funk. Of course, anything art that Black Americans participated in, I'm talking African slaves brought over to any part of the new world, has it's origins in Africa. Duh. But that is to neglect the fact that once over here, many of these African slaves created with new cultures, new forms of musical and artistic expression.....so...
Funk is not an African genre of music! Someone please,...go to Africa and find me a funk musician prior to James Brown or any Black American you want to include in this topic. Just as the fundaments of reggae are most likely based in Africa, reggae is a Black American art form; you could not find any element of reggae, funk, jazz or any other Black American art form existing in Africa before the slave trade save elements of rhythm. Funk is a Black American form of artistic expression; its the rudiments of R&B. Yes, as a Black American, I love my historical ties to Africa. But, as a man who studies music and musicology, I know that the Black American was and is one enterprising muthafucker. Consider the picture of the African continent a bit of a Rorschach's Test: I didn't suggest anything about the scope of African influence. Individuals inferred their own messages. I could make parallels between tribal drums' evolution to contemporary sounds (like the ever-popular 808 series) and rhythms, tribal chants' influence on the call-and-response song structure used by our own favorite boy's funk anthem "D.M.S.R." and the like. But I won't -- I'll just allude to them. Truth be told, I hear funk elements in Mozart and Beethoven's work, as well as Bach's. I'm not denying other continents' contributions to the oeuvre of funk (any time I can use "oeuvre" and "funk" in the same sentence is a good time, mind you). I'm just saying some of the most obvious and immediate elements are African through and through. | |
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MrSoulpower said: In the 60s, JB pioneered next to a group that used to scare the shit out of him back in the day: Dyke and the Blazers. Up to this day, JB doesn't want to hear any tunes by Dyke at his parties.
Although I still prefer Wilson Pickett's version of Funky Broadway over Dyke's, he definitely had some funky tunes. James Brown had nothing to fear as there's no Dyke vocal that even comes close to anything he's ever done. tA  Tribal Disorder
http://www.soundclick.com...dID=182431 "Ya see, we're not interested in what you know...but what you are willing to learn. C'mon y'all." | |
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Them folks in Congo Square.  | |
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paligap said: chuckaducci said: And another thing...
Enough of this Headhunters lp being an extension of melodic and harmonic funk (such a thing is hard to find). The reason why anyone would think this is because essentially, Headhunters is a jazz fusion album inspired by funk. It's not a funk album. Its jazz fusion with R&B (funk and soul) rhythms. I think it's BOTH, and this ends up being a circular semantics argument. When I hear The Headhunters' "Chameleon", I hear FUNK. Does the fact that it has a solo on it exclude it from the Funk lexicon? Herbie formed the Headhunters Band precisely because he was turned out listening to Sly Stone and James Brown, and wanted to play some funk---of course, it was filtered through his jazz sensibilities... ... Thanks for the assist  
The rhythm grooves that are being laid down by Mason/Jackson & Clarke/Jackson are without question funk-based. Just because they don't adhere to strictly repetitive basslines and drum rhythms and have the musical ability to add variations doesn't make them any less funky. The harmonic & melodic "interest" comes from Herbie Hancock's superior command of chord voicings and written melodies incorporated onto these FUNK-based grooves. And another thing..., I never said that these particular records were specifically FUNK albums. That would be limiting the scope of what the compositions represent. Your logic concerning the Head Hunters material not being funk, when coupled with your proclamation that "Everybody who knows anything about music knows that James Brown, Sly Stone and then George Clinton should be considered the founders and first proponents of funk." becomes flawed because you could conceivably take a chunk of Sly Stone's material out of the mix claiming "Its POP fusion with R&B (funk and soul) rhythms." I'm guessing your definition of FUNK (and what isn't) and mine will just have to differ. My standards for inclusion are apparantly not as rigid. This would lead one to ask the mine-field question, "What is FUNK?" (and who get's granted entrée to the Player's Club) tA Tribal Disorder
http://www.soundclick.com...dID=182431 "Ya see, we're not interested in what you know...but what you are willing to learn. C'mon y'all." | |
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2freaky4church1 said: The first guy who didn't wash his ass.
You didn't invent funk.  | |
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calldapplwondery83 said: GangstaFam said: God.
Eric Clapton?  Dude, Clapton got demoted to David Koresh in the '90s.  When the sunlight strikes raindrops in the air, they act as a prism and form a rainbow. The rainbow is a division of white light into many beautiful colors. Regardless of the day, I'm glad you were born. | |
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Thunderbird said: calldapplwondery83 said: Eric Clapton? Dude, Clapton got demoted to David Koresh in the '90s.  | |
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theAudience said: MrSoulpower said: In the 60s, JB pioneered next to a group that used to scare the shit out of him back in the day: Dyke and the Blazers. Up to this day, JB doesn't want to hear any tunes by Dyke at his parties.
Although I still prefer Wilson Pickett's version of Funky Broadway over Dyke's, he definitely had some funky tunes. James Brown had nothing to fear as there's no Dyke vocal that even comes close to anything he's ever done. tA Tribal Disorder
http://www.soundclick.com...dID=182431 Well, I can definetely tell you that he feared them a lot back in the day and even today he doesn't wanna listen to Dyke. I know that Dyke's vocal skills couldn't touch JB, but it was the showmanship and the power of songs like "Shotgun Slim" and "It's a funky thing" JB was and still is scared of. | |
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MrSoulpower said: theAudience said: Although I still prefer Wilson Pickett's version of Funky Broadway over Dyke's, he definitely had some funky tunes. James Brown had nothing to fear as there's no Dyke vocal that even comes close to anything he's ever done. tA Tribal Disorder
http://www.soundclick.com...dID=182431 Well, I can definetely tell you that he feared them a lot back in the day and even today he doesn't wanna listen to Dyke. I know that Dyke's vocal skills couldn't touch JB, but it was the showmanship and the power of songs like "Shotgun Slim" and "It's a funky thing" JB was and still is scared of.  Still? Why? The guy's dead!
JB = 
tA Tribal Disorder
http://www.soundclick.com...dID=182431 "Ya see, we're not interested in what you know...but what you are willing to learn. C'mon y'all." | |
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Lots of interesting comments here! Thanks, folks! | |
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the pyramids !!!!! | |
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James Brown invented funk with papa's got a brand new bag and out of sight both 1965. He said he came up with funk by changing the beat accent from the second and fourth to the first and third. [Edited 9/9/05 14:10pm] | |
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George Clinton.
I write this because he created Funk in a way that has most influenced contemporary music (IMO). James Brown of course, was there before and I love his music, but a great deal of the common characteristics of Funk and the image surrounding it are traceable to Clinton in my view. | |
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Also in terms of bass lines in Funk music, Larry Graham had a great influence and continues to. | |
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