New topic
Printablesquiddyren said: "Thriller" IS overrated in its own right because it's much too calculated and commercial, but hey, at least it's organic and soulful, unlike his succeeding albums, which are massively overproduced, plagued by old-hat gimmicks (both lyrically and musically), and feature ridiculous grunting/yipping/hooting overload (there were vocal mannerisms on this album and "Off The Wall", as well as some Jacksons work, too, but at least it was soulful and kept to a limit, rather than forced and over-the-top).
"Thriller" is his last great, timeless record. I used to love "Bad" like a sibling and stick up for it all the time, but eventually, I had to stop splitting hairs and look at the harsh truth: It, along with everything else succeeding it, is only chasing after his previous fame. I agree with your take on Bad (very silly except for "Liberian Girl," "The Way You Make Me Feel," and "Man In The Mirror...") for the most part...But I think Dangerous was an underrated album... | |
- E-mail - orgNote -  Report post to moderator |
murph said: I agree with your take on Bad (very silly except for "Liberian Girl," "The Way You Make Me Feel," and "Man In The Mirror...") for the most part...But I think Dangerous was an underrated album...
"Dangerous" is really overrated in AND out of the fan community, IMO. Songs like "Jam" and "WYWTOM" hard-hitting and funky? Never was new-jack swing such an assault on my ears what with all that overproduction and whiny lyrics. And "Heal The World" and "Black And White" are just disposable, the former being pure, Disney-esque bullshit, as a matter of fact. "Remember The Time" is one of his finest hours, however. | |
| - E-mail - orgNote - Report post to moderator |
squiddyren said: murph said: I agree with your take on Bad (very silly except for "Liberian Girl," "The Way You Make Me Feel," and "Man In The Mirror...") for the most part...But I think Dangerous was an underrated album...
"Dangerous" is really overrated in AND out of the fan community, IMO. Songs like "Jam" and "WYWTOM" hard-hitting and funky? Never was new-jack swing such an assault on my ears what with all that overproduction and whiny lyrics. And "Heal The World" and "Black And White" are just disposable, the former being pure, Disney-esque bullshit, as a matter of fact. "Remember The Time" is one of his finest hours, however. I think "Heal The World" and "Black Or White" are two of the more worst songs on there..and when I say underrated I mean music fans casting the album off as dog shit...Dangerous has never been looked at as a solid piece of work (Only by the hardcore MJ supporters across the globe)..So I really don't know how it can be overrated...if anything it's underrated...Anyone that knows me on this site is aware that i am far from a MJ apologist...To me the man didn't live up to the artistic possibilities of his solo career (two albums in a decade? Come the fuck on...) But that said, Dangerous has some strong material...More than the stuff on Bad...I dig cuts like "Remember The Time," (Teddy's crowning moment along with B.B.'s "My Perrogative), "Keep It In The Closet" (Possibly the most funkiest song ever recorded by the man), "Can't Let Her Get Away (Way too long, but the groove is sick...), "Give In To Me" (His most sincere attempt at guitar rock since "Beat It") and "Who Is It," (A cool little song...)...Just my opinion... [Edited 8/28/05 15:42pm] | |
| - E-mail - orgNote - Report post to moderator |
sosgemini said: Moonbeam said: If it were a 7-track album, it could content with his best material, but "The Girl Is Mine" may very well be the worst song he's ever been involved with, and "The Lady in My Life" isn't far behind.
Thriller is massively influential and important and contains some great, great material. But 7 great tracks doesn't make a flawless album when there are 2 to drag it down... the beauty of "each its own".. lady in my life is my favorite mj track...EVER!!  It's my 2nd favorite behind Heartbreak Hotel  | |
| - E-mail - orgNote - Report post to moderator |
murph said: squiddyren said: "Dangerous" is really overrated in AND out of the fan community, IMO. Songs like "Jam" and "WYWTOM" hard-hitting and funky? Never was new-jack swing such an assault on my ears what with all that overproduction and whiny lyrics. And "Heal The World" and "Black And White" are just disposable, the former being pure, Disney-esque bullshit, as a matter of fact. "Remember The Time" is one of his finest hours, however. I think "Heal The World" and "Black Or White" are two of the more worst songs on there..and when I say underrated I mean music fans casting the album off as dog shit...Dangerous has never been looked at as a solid piece of work (Only by the hardcore MJ supporters across the globe)..So I really don't know how it can be overrated...if anything it's underrated...Anyone that knows me on this site is aware that i am far from a MJ apologist...To me the man didn't live up to the artistic possibilities of his solo career (two albums in a decade? Come the fuck on...) But that said, Dangerous has some strong material...More than the stuff on Bad...I dig cuts like "Remember The Time," (Teddy's crowning moment along with B.B.'s "My Perrogative), "Keep It In The Closet" (Possibly the most funkiest song ever recorded by the man), "Can't Let Her Get Away (Way too long, but the groove is sick...), "Give In To Me" (His most sincere attempt at guitar rock since "Beat It") and "Who Is It," (A cool little song...)...Just my opinion... [Edited 8/28/05 15:42pm] Well, I mostly agree.  | |
| - E-mail - orgNote - Report post to moderator |
PurpleKnight said: laurarichardson said: ----- For an overated recording it sure as been influnecial. I guess we are on a bash the 80's movement on the org today. Well take a look around everybody now a days is trying to sound like to 80's. Because millions of records sold back them not thousands. The music was a 100 times better and PR was leading the pack. Live in a state of denial if you want to. It does not change the facts. I don't think mentioning two albums in one thread should constitute you rushing to the aid of 80's music. Also, why mention sales at all? This is about Thriller being really overrated to my ears. [Edited 8/27/05 18:32pm] ----- I mention sales because these records sold millions of copies not thousands. It means a hell of a lot of people around the world like these damm records. In addtion, PR was back on the charts last year and you can definitly hear the influence on a lot of artist today. If you think these two records are overated it your opinion but, don't make it sound like your opinion is the gospel truth. As far as the 80's are concerned I think Thriller is getting bashed as a part of the let's put down the 80 's vibe that is going on now. [Edited 8/28/05 18:09pm] | |
| - E-mail - orgNote - Report post to moderator |
Well, Purple Rain is my favourite album of all time, so it wasn't me who thought it's overrated in this thread.
I really don't care how many millions love Thriller though. That's good for them, but it's not what this topic's about. Nowhere in this thread did I say you're wrong if you don't think Thriller is overrated. I can't stand when people expect you to put "IMO" in front of every sentence on the internet. It's just obvious that it's my opinion. As usual, you're really reaching with your argument. Two albums from a decade of music being mentioned as overrated to a few people doesn't constitute an entire decade's influence being put down and ignored. By this rationale of yours, would calling Titanic an overrated movie make it a case of claiming the 90's were worthless for cinema? Really silly. [Edited 8/28/05 19:43pm] The world is a comedy for those who think and a tragedy for those who feel.
"You still wanna take me to prison...just because I won't trade humanity for patriotism." | |
| - E-mail - orgNote - Report post to moderator |
While 'Off The Wall' is a better album,there is no denying that 'Thriller' is a masterpiece.It's one of the best pop albums of all-time and it deserves all the acclaim it has gotten.I love every song on it (yes,even "The Girl Is Mine",lol).The production by Quincy Jones is mindblowing."Billie Jean" is arguably the greatest pop/R&B song of the 80s.I literally wore this record out back then.I had to go out and buy multiple copies! 'Thriller' is more than just a hit album by a popular artist...it is the 'Saturday Night Fever' of the 80s....it's an album that defined an era.Alot of barriers were broken with this record. | |
| - E-mail - orgNote - Report post to moderator |
Moonbeam said: If it were a 7-track album, it could content with his best material, but "The Girl Is Mine" may very well be the worst song he's ever been involved with, and "The Lady in My Life" isn't far behind.
Thriller is massively influential and important and contains some great, great material. But 7 great tracks doesn't make a flawless album when there are 2 to drag it down... Oh come on Moonbeam,you're not really complaining about an album that has ONLY seven good songs?? 
Nowadays,you'd be hard-pressed to find an album with three great songs on it.I think 'Thriller' is one of the most consistent albums ever,with absolutely no filler. | |
| - E-mail - orgNote - Report post to moderator |
BlaqueKnight said: No. You can not take away anything from Thriller. Then it wouldn't be Thriller. Why the need to disect everything these days? Sometimes it seems like all the writers from "Best Week Ever" & "I Love the _____" post here. People critique in RETROSPECT and hold things to today's standards, convientantly omitting EVERYTHING ELSE THAT WAS AROUND AT THE TIME. "Thriller's not so great"...blah, blah, blah. Thriller is the reason EmpTV became what it was. Before Thriller, it was a little-watched shit station showing videos that most people didn't give a damn about. As we all know, now Mtv is "running thangs" in the video dept. Thanks to THRILLER. Do you guys think that everyone from the 80s are all dead or have forgotten what was what? Sheesh!
 | |
| - E-mail - orgNote - Report post to moderator |
Wanna Be Startin' Somethin'
Baby Be Mine
The Girl Is Mine 
Thriller 
Beat It
Billie Jean
Human Nature
P.Y.T. 
The Lady In My Life
didn't get the hype then..don't get it now. it's a decent album never one of my favourites.  out og a possible 5. | |
| - E-mail - orgNote - Report post to moderator |
It seems like revisionist thinking to say that.
You have to go back and compare it to what was out to appreciated the craftsmanship of it. OTW seemed fresher because it was MJ it a new format. He and his brothers were growing from Motown and OTW was growing from that. With Thriller you say "Yeah they put a rock song, they put a ballad, they put a duet but at the time it was like WTF? Paul McCartney? Eddie Van Halen, Q and James Ingram wrote that? Toto wrote that? LaToya sang backup! (Sorry, that's pushing it.) It really hit everyone with the element of surprise. The first single was The Girl Is Mine and everyone went .....OK. And then everything else just exploded after that. Guest stars were on all sorts of CD's afterwards. Hey look It's Jeffrey Osborne with Brian May of Queen on "Baby Stay With Me Tonight.' Hey look at this Gap Band CD, the lettering looks like Thriller. Hey It's Eddie Murphy and Rick James. "All right Eddie, you can't sing but I'm gonna make you a star like me. Get out there and sing your heart out b****." Remember in the Party All The Time video and Rick looks at Eddie like "Aw hell to the naw" And Rick had to bust out on the mike and take over? That was kewl. The ruffles later weren't kewl. But that was kewl. | |
| - E-mail - orgNote - Report post to moderator |
Saturnyne said: Thriller is one of those albums that everyone has and has heard a hundred times to the point that it's become sonic wallpaper. You hear it, you don't usually think about it, you don't usually pay attention. But those times when you actually listen to it, pay attention to it, it's impossible to not be affected by how absolutely perfect it is. Even the relative low points....
Good post | |
| - E-mail - orgNote - Report post to moderator |
hellomoto said: yes, i agree. to me michaels done so much better work, bad, dangerous and history are all far superier, the only problem with them is much more songs. he needed to cut down on songs, if he did they all would be masterpiecs like thriller is considered. but michaels personal life overshadows them, and personally off the wall is my least fav album of his, even the not so great invincible beats it.
I know we all have different opinions,but damn
'Dangerous' and 'History' better than 'Thriller'?? 'Invincible' better than 'Off The Wall'?? Sometimes I wonder if you guys are serious or joking. | |
| - E-mail - orgNote - Report post to moderator |
DavidEye said: hellomoto said: yes, i agree. to me michaels done so much better work, bad, dangerous and history are all far superier, the only problem with them is much more songs. he needed to cut down on songs, if he did they all would be masterpiecs like thriller is considered. but michaels personal life overshadows them, and personally off the wall is my least fav album of his, even the not so great invincible beats it.
I know we all have different opinions,but damn
'Dangerous' and 'History' better than 'Thriller'?? 'Invincible' better than 'Off The Wall'?? Sometimes I wonder if you guys are serious or joking. They're serious...ly fucked in the head   I never met you, but I LOVE you & I will forever!! Thank you for being YOU - my little Princey, the best to EVER do it | |
| - E-mail - orgNote - Report post to moderator |
CalhounSq said: DavidEye said: I know we all have different opinions,but damn
'Dangerous' and 'History' better than 'Thriller'?? 'Invincible' better than 'Off The Wall'?? Sometimes I wonder if you guys are serious or joking. They're serious...ly fucked in the head  MONSTER still on the loose!
But "Dangerous" is better than "Thriller". | |
| - E-mail - orgNote - Report post to moderator |
Dangerous and HIStory really are his best albums and both ranks in my top 10 | |
| - E-mail - orgNote - Report post to moderator |
LightOfArt said: Dangerous and HIStory really are his best albums and both ranks in my top 10
Dangerous was a great album and it was his last incredible CD. Even though, the CD was a little too long and a bit on the repetitive side, I think it ranks up there with Thriller and Off The Wall. I don't know why it was so underrated. HIStory was where I started to really think Mike was an idiot. The concept was pretty foolish, with him adding a hits compilation with the new album. There were a couple of jams I liked on the second disc like Stranger In Moscow, This Time Around, Money, You Are Not Alone, Tabloid Junkie, Earth Song, and Scream. I consider "HIStory" as his "Bad" of the 90's. HIStory was just too generic and it didn't have that substance Off The Wall, Dangerous, Thriller, or Bad had. Invincible was a better album too me. Check me out and add me on:
www.last.fm/user/brandosoul "Truth is, everybody is going to hurt you; you just gotta find the ones worth suffering for." -Bob Marley | |
| - E-mail - orgNote - Report post to moderator |
LightOfArt said: Dangerous and HIStory really are his best albums and both ranks in my top 10
 I never met you, but I LOVE you & I will forever!! Thank you for being YOU - my little Princey, the best to EVER do it | |
| - E-mail - orgNote - Report post to moderator |
To be honest,I think Michael's music went downhill after 'Thriller' 
The 'Bad' album has several really great songs---"Another Part Of Me","Man In The Mirror","Liberian Girl"---but it's not quite the masterpiece that it could have been.Several tracks are filler.'Dangerous' has it's moments,but there's a little too much New Jack Swing on there.By 1991,that sound was already played out.'History' is an intriguing album mainly for its' deep,personal lyrics,but the songs themselves are basically just by-the-numbers mid-90s R&B,produced by all the "hot" producers at the time.For 'Invincible',Mike used the same formula,but this time there are some truly stunning slow jams,so I give it extra points. | |
| - E-mail - orgNote - Report post to moderator |
To me, MJ's albums have all suffered from this annoying habit he has of desperately trying to craft perfect "big hits" every time. I wish he'd just stop worrying about the commercial potential of an album and focus on really speaking his mind more.
That's what hurts Thriller to me. It just sounds so ridiculously safe and full of non-threatening fluff. [Edited 8/30/05 2:34am] The world is a comedy for those who think and a tragedy for those who feel.
"You still wanna take me to prison...just because I won't trade humanity for patriotism." | |
| - E-mail - orgNote - Report post to moderator |
PurpleKnight said: To me, MJ's albums have all suffered from this annoying habit he has of desperately trying to craft perfect "big hits" every time. I wish he'd just stop worrying about the commercial potential of an album and focus on really speaking his mind more.
I agree.He is too obsessed with record sales.These days,he can't seem to record a song unless it features a "hot" producer. | |
| - E-mail - orgNote - Report post to moderator |
Exactly.
Now I'm NOT one to compare him to Prince, but I'd love to see MJ pull a "Rainbow Children" by releasing a fearlessly non commercial album that gets everything off his chest. Not that I liked TRC, mind you, but I did like its courage and artistic ambition. It's just disappointing is all. MJ is such a talented man. It's time to get his mind off MTV. [Edited 8/30/05 2:42am] The world is a comedy for those who think and a tragedy for those who feel.
"You still wanna take me to prison...just because I won't trade humanity for patriotism." | |
| - E-mail - orgNote - Report post to moderator |
CalhounSq said: LightOfArt said: Dangerous and HIStory really are his best albums and both ranks in my top 10
 | |
| - E-mail - orgNote - Report post to moderator |
Yes he used 'hot' producers here and there but majority of the stuff on his 90s albums are MJ himslef
In my opinion songs like Who Is It, Give Into Me, They Dont Care aBout Us, Stranger In Moscow, Earth Song, Money to name a few are some of his best songs...and where is the 'commercial' sound in them? They're produced by mj himself What you've got to understand is that MJ is the bigeest star on the planet he's got expectations to live up to. He has fans all around the planet who are not native speakers of English and MJ needs to deliver the international sound that can bring al those millions of people together. So no he can not make an album like The Rainbow Children. And he still has some room for some creepy stuff like Morphine, Little Susie etc. Damn it releasing The Lost Children needed more courage than anything Prince has done [Edited 8/30/05 3:25am] | |
| - E-mail - orgNote - Report post to moderator |
Who cares if he has expectations to live up to?
Prince had expectations to live up to after Purple Rain, but he did the smart thing for his musical legacy and went down the artistic path instead of being obsessed with filling his albums up with attempts at crafting the next "When Doves Cry" calibre hit. MJ doesn't even have those expectations to live up to anymore anyway. Let's face it, he's not known for his music now to most people. He's known for his self-destructive public antics and creepy scandals. That makes for a better time than ever to just stop with the superstar obsession and simply make the art of good music the focus again. [Edited 8/30/05 3:34am] The world is a comedy for those who think and a tragedy for those who feel.
"You still wanna take me to prison...just because I won't trade humanity for patriotism." | |
| - E-mail - orgNote - Report post to moderator |
LightOfArt said: In my opinion songs like Who Is It, Give Into Me, They Dont Care aBout Us, Stranger In Moscow, Earth Song, Money to name a few are some of his best songs...and where is the 'commercial' sound in them? They're produced by mj himself
Doesn't mean they're not pop songs. | |
| - E-mail - orgNote - Report post to moderator |
MJ doesn't even have those expectations to live up to anymore anyway
At the time he had. Unlike Prince MJ still has fans that are not old-skool.Kids that also listen to R. Kelly, Justin etc. He has to satisfy both sides. As a fan I want what you want too, but there are alot of fans hoping he'll work with Neptunes next 
Doesn't mean they're not pop songs. I dont see what your point is. They surely dont sound like what masses were listening to at the time. | |
| - E-mail - orgNote - Report post to moderator |
LightOfArt said: CalhounSq said: How could you fuck anybody w/ your head lodged up MJ's ass? I never met you, but I LOVE you & I will forever!! Thank you for being YOU - my little Princey, the best to EVER do it | |
| - E-mail - orgNote - Report post to moderator |
Back to topic. Thriller is not one of my favourites of him but cant deny it's an amazing record. Rock fans love it, RNB fans love it, Pop fans love it. It's a very diverse record that's got something for everyone...
It's pop,rock,rnb,funk all rolled into one album.And there's the jazzy lady in my life there too. It's just fucking mind blowing. | |
| - E-mail - orgNote - Report post to moderator |