And it's only with MJ. I dont see Beatles getting the whole "George Martin made them" thing

And MJ was a star before Quincy and after Quincy too.

I was checking out the Destiny credits a few days ago and was quite shocked to find out MJ was working with those great musicians before Off The Wall.

You know Paulinho da Costa, Jerry Hey, Greg Philinganes and others

I'll point out another thing, people whinging about the time between albums, despite before HIStory there being several side projects and long ass tours anyway. It's fine for Prince fans to criticise this particular thing, but I see Annie Lennox, Kate Bush and George Michael fans ragging on Michael for not being prolific. Erm...

And before Thriller he was an album a year artist anyway. Thriller just changed the way things were generally marketed, Prince being an exception.

Ellie said:

skywalker said:

To be fair,though....Rick never really wanted to be anything but a funkster.He often criticized Prince for "selling out" and abandoning his funk roots.I recall a 1982 interview where Rick said that he could easily record a rock album and appeal to a whole new audience,but he didn't want to abandon the funk.As for Rick not being an "MTV staple"....we all know the reason for that,don't we? In the early days,MTV didn't really show any ANY black artists.Rick called them out for it,and soon after,they suddenly decided to start showing Black artists.He is at least partly responsible for getting them to reconsider their rules,dontcha think? I agree with most of your other opinions,and obviously Prince was the bigger crossover star.But Rick was huge in the R&B/funk world,and he is generally considered a funk master,much like George Clinton.Ask some real,hardcore funk fans (not just pop fans) to give you their opinion of Rick James and the impact of his music.

LightOfArt said:

Greg Philinganes

Could have possibly known him through Stevie Wonder. Come back, Greg. What's he doing now?

Ellie said:

He put out an album a few years ago.

maybe Mike should get back with the old crew including Rod Temperton and do something.

JackieBlue said:

That's the last thing he should do. I'd rather him go in a totally new direction. If anything he should write and produce the majority of his new work himself. Most of his very best stuff is his own stuff, imo.

I am not sure who' s the best signer in the world - maybe Bobby Mc Ferrin, but Mike' s got the most beautiful voice (for me) - heaven can wait.

I don' t know what you have against post thriller MJ records cause they' re great. I' d rather listen to Dangerous than Thriller any time. And songs like Stranger in Moscow, Earth song, Little susie and Smile from Historz and heaven can wait, Butterflies from Invincible are some of the most beautiful pieces ever.

Cloudbuster said:

I've been rooting for him to do project himself for years. But I wouldn't mind hearing what a track or two would sound like with the old gang. Honestly at this point I don't know what he should do. Whatever I hope for, I'm sure he'll do the opposite.

JackieBlue said:

Yeah, fair enough. A couple of songs would maybe work well. I could deal with that. I just hope he has more solo offerings next time around. I prefer him when his work is a little quirky, and they're usually his self-penned songs. That's what I'm hoping for, but like you say, he'll probably do the complete opposite.

Ellie said:

Well, I was compairing the two groups of fanbases on Prince.org moreso than Dotmusic. I've always thought that Dotmusic's nutty Madonna fans were probably pre-teens; their arguments just usually seemed so juvenile (Madonna vs. Kylie, Madonna vs. Mariah, Madonna vs. Faloola Chong).

Lot's of people diss MJ, they just need to grow up and get a MF'ing life! MJ and Prince are two of the biggest genius's the world has EVER seen.

GET OVER IT!

Xavier23 said:

i call to the stand the first witness....

GoldenGlove said:

i love when people throw the word "genius" around when discussing pop stars. these people have talent. not thoughts..... and if you think they do, ask them to sit down and take the SAT's. that goes for all of them. MJ, Prince, Madonna... and i'm a fan of all 3.

GrayKing said:

There are different types of genius my firend. Prince and MJ are Musical genius.

Axchi696 said:

Oh LOL, they're all grown men in the late 20s and 30s actually! FALOOLA CHONG, they're still going on about "her". We're all refuged here: http://www.moopy.co.uk/fo...index.php? - The Celebdaq forum is most amusing.
[Edited 8/18/05 10:10am]

" I think Prince started to kick Rick's ass from 1983 on...But to dismiss Rick as just "a handful of glammed out artists in the late 70s and early 80's" shows your lack of understanding on Rick's legacy...The man was basically keeping Motown afloat from 1978 to 1984...Prince wasn't better than Rick because he got MTV love and crossed over...P was better than Rick because he was the more focused and ambitious artist...I myself admired Rick's stand against racist ass MTV back in the days...Let's be real...Prince got played on MTV because his label started to push him as an rock artist...He was the light skinned cross over wonder kid...If you don't think that played a role in Prince getting early airplay of "Little Red Corvette" (along with the song's rock leanings), you are fooling yourself..."

And to the other cat that said that Prince lost his way after Purple Rain, I think that's a pretty questionable statement...I mean Sign O' the Times by itself showed that the man could be ranked with the immortals (Stevie, Beatles, Bob Dylan, Jimi ect...)...By then he was leaps and bounds ahead of Rick, who I have a lot of love a respect for to this day..Just my humble opinion..."

"To be fair,though....Rick never really wanted to be anything but a funkster.He often criticized Prince for "selling out" and abandoning his funk roots.I recall a 1982 interview where Rick said that he could easily record a rock album and appeal to a whole new audience,but he didn't want to abandon the funk.As for Rick not being an "MTV staple"....we all know the reason for that,don't we? In the early days,MTV didn't really show any ANY black artists.Rick called them out for it,and soon after,they suddenly decided to start showing Black artists.He is at least partly responsible for getting them to reconsider their rules,dontcha think? I agree with most of your other opinions,and obviously Prince was the bigger crossover star.But Rick was huge in the R&B/funk world,and he is generally considered a funk master,much like George Clinton.Ask some real,hardcore funk fans (not just pop fans) to give you their opinion of Rick James and the impact of his music. "


I am sorry if it seemed like I was tryin' to put down Rick James. Not at all. I understand his legacy, and was not trying to diminish the good things that he did. When you look past the drugs, jail, and The Chappelle show, Rick was a great musician. However, I stand by my statement that Prince is (and has been since the early 80's) way out of Rick's league musically. If Rick chose not to let himself expand because he wanted to stay true to the funk then that is fine. However, that's a limit that he put on himself and Prince never did that. So, Rick's legacy (by his design or not) is one of R&B and Funk. Prince goes beyond that and made himself a global superstar that is generally looked upon as being in a different league than Rick.
[Edited 8/18/05 10:49am]

GoldenGlove said:

were genius. there's nothing in their last 10 years of output that would indicate such an adjective.

GrayKing said:

What the hell are you bringing up the SAT's for,just because someone does well on a test doesn't mean they're a fuckin genius!

catpark said:

GrayKing said:

WTF!?!

Genius MJ songs in the last 10 years.
Speechless
Earth Song
Heal The World
Will You Be There
Stranger In Moscow
Blood On TheDance Floor

And Prince
Dear Mr. Man
The Everlasting Now
The Rainbow Children (the lyrics)
Gett Off
Diamonds and Pearls
Money don't matter
Gold

GoldenGlove said:

wow. 13 moments of genius between them in 10 years. i'm in awe.

GrayKing said:

They were just a few examples... BTW who do u think YOU are to critisice MJ and Prince for fucks sake!!

Well I don't agree with that little list, but just to be pedantic, a lot of those are over 10 years old

GoldenGlove said:

a fan. what's it to you?

skywalker said:

You know you are my folks Skywalker...I agreed with you wholeheartedly in my post that Prince was on another level musically than Rick, which was your main statement...But what i was trying to say is that some of the reasons you gave to validate your statement were a little questionable...Prince getting crossover MTV love was to me more about his rock sound and multi-ethnic look being more acceptable than anything else..And like you said, Rick didn't care about crossing over because...The reason: He knew that MTV and rock/pop radio stations across the country were racist and full of shit...A song like "Superfreak" should have gotten major airplay on MTV (It's nothing but a funked up new wave song for God's sake, a sound that was all over MTV)...I think the drugs fucked up Rick more than anything else...But we can agree on your statement for the most part...accept for the crossover...

I never said Rick did funk better or before Prince. I said Rick was shocking before Prince was and it appears to me that Prince learned what shock value could bring him on the tour with Rick James.



I seem to recall, during the "1999" era, Rick's album "Throwin' Down" and "Cold Blooded" sharing the R&B charts with it. The Mary Jane Girls also had a successful first album produced by Rick during this time. There was also a Stone City Band album and a track Rick produced for the group Kleeer called "She Said She Loves Me".

Also, during the "Purple Rain" era, Rick had an album called "Reflections" with a single called "17" that did fairly moderately. He was also doing very well with the Mary Jane Girls' "In My House".

Some of these projects were sharing the R&B charts with Prince and some weren't. As far as the pop charts go, I could give less than a damn. Rick was only concerned with doing funk and I was more than happy to see that was all he wanted.



So what! I could care less about that. That's where Prince fucked up and Rick didn't. Rick was about the funk and only the funk. If the pop audiences liked it...fine, if they didn't.....fuck 'em. That's one of the things I like better about Rick. As far as crossing over to the masses, that doesn't impress me one bit. If it weren't for all the funk and R&B artists trying to cross over in the late 1980s, funk would still be here today. To me, crossover is a horrible thing.




Other than a hit single here and there or a particular track here and there, such as "Kiss", "Adore", or "Get Off", the rest of the world pretty much forgot about Prince also except for his hardcore fans. Prince's new "creative" direction of the late 1980s became a joke to many people. So, going by that, Prince had his good years the same as Rick....1978-1984.



And everyone knows why also. MTV was very racist and still is today, although it's hidden racism now. Rick had a major feud with them because they didn't play videos by any black artists. Look how hard Michael Jackson had to fight to get his videos played. His record company had to threaten to pull their white artists' videos unless they played Michael's.

Talk has also been going around for years that MTV learned about Rick's feud with Prince and started playing Prince's videos just to spite Rick. Whether it's true or not, it is something to think about because why didn't Prince have to fight them to play his like Rick and Michael did?

MTV is still racist today because they didn't play rap videos until they saw that white kids were into rap music. If white kids ever lose interest in rap, watch and see if MTV continues to support it.




No, but he sure as hell was guilty of running his big mouth and bragging about doing not one but two movies that never happened. Prince was lucky enough to have a record label like Warner Brothers that was willing to stand behind, support, let him do a movie, and even put up with him without dropping him in the later years when he got "creative" and lost a big chunk of his audience. Rick's label, Motown, was notorious for ripping off it's artists.




I never in any way said Prince copied Rick's sound. Prince definately had a very unique sound of his own, which I absolutely loved him for, and made me an even bigger Prince fan than I was a Rick James fan. If I didn't love his unique sound so much, I wouldn't have bitched when he ditched the sound.




Yes Prince is still and always has been unique but it doesn't matter in today's no talent world where nothing is unique. He still makes a splash every now and then but I really could care less if he wins over today's audiences because they ain't shit anyway. In the 1980s, I wanted Prince on top because everyone's music was good. In today's world, I hope he stays underground and has the dignity to not sell out to their no talent, dead ass music style.



I could care less about what some damn pop/rock music critic that knows absolutely nothing about funk has to say either about Prince or Rick James.

They only know Rick for "Super Freak", MC Hammer sampling him, prison, and "I'm Rick James Bitch". The only funk they know about is someone like Parliament that rappers have been sampling for years so they decided to check them out and see what all the fuss about. Throw names at them like Confunkshun, Brick, The Barkays, Skyy, etc., and they don't know who the hell they are.

As far as Prince goes, where were they during "Dirty Mind" and "Controversy"? They didn't know who the hell Prince was until "Little Red Corvette" and then they went back and listened to his music. This lets me know they were not funk fans at all so they have no right to be commenting about funk acts and who's better and who's not. Their opinion means nothing to me.

Thanks David. Once again you have hit the nail dead on the head and said it perfectly.

Vainandy-- again, you like the funk the most and you like Prince as an electro funk rocker from 1978-1984. You love Rick for the same reason. That is your era and you have claimed that from day one. I am not trying to stomp on Rick or get into a huge thing insulting your glorious late 70's/early 80's heydey. All I am saying is that Prince surpassed Rick along time ago in the music world. That is an opinion that many in this world share. You don't agree and that's fine. I don't care. Love Rick James and the fact that he never left the funkrock style that you love. Prince had other seas to sail and he sailed them (much to your dismay). As I said before, Prince left Rick stranded in the R&B/funk pigeon hole that you dig so much. So we can argue that Rick coulda woulda maybe did this and that but he never did anything beyond his funk (which pleases you). However, his legacy is not of the caliber of Prince's because of it. You wish Prince had never gone farther than funk/R & B like he did and, unlike you, many of us are happy that he did. Thanks for the conversation. No ill will etc.
[Edited 8/18/05 19:47pm]