I love hip hop and this not a "hate on hip hop thread" I'm happy that Hip Hop has managed to get it's foot in the mainstream, but I noticed since it has happened alot of r&b stars have fallen off hard!
I just heard Tamia has new album "Between friends" been released on an indie label because she got dropped and Brandy is also on an indie label now "sanctuary" which I heard was going broke.
Deborah Cox has started a her own label and has a new album coming out because no major label pickd her up after Clive dropped her from "J"
I really feels like r&b is going through a hard patch

These days,if you're an R&B artist,you damn near have to make your album sound just like a hip-hop album in order to be played on the radio and sell records...you gotta use lots of samples,have guest rappers on every other track,etc.That's why I dislike so much of today's R&B.

DavidEye said:

-----
Co-Sign. Rap pretty much destroyed RnB music. It is really sad that whole generation is never going to be exposed to RnB music.

R&B is doing a good job killing itself. Too many producers, too many egos and the worst thing of all. Ba Bmm Bmm Ki - the drum machine which today is the evil handmaiden of modern R&B. Everything is backed by that familiar godawful faux drum sound so it all sounds the same and boy does it date quickly. Just one listen to Emancipation shows you this. R&B used to be called soul but the total overuse of drum programming removed most of the soul. Van Hunt is a shining light in todays scene though. His debut made me care again.
[Edited 8/5/05 6:06am]
[Edited 8/5/05 6:08am]
[Edited 8/5/05 6:09am]
[Edited 8/5/05 6:09am]

Pretty ironic, especially when you consider it used to be the other way around. Many hip-hop artists used to have R&B artists guesting on tracks in an effort to be more accessible. Things move in cycles sometimes. Everybody needs to just stay optimistic and keep moving forward. More importantly (as artists), keep an open mind and do what feels good.

WildheartXXX said:

-----
What is killing RnB is the lack of it in the first place. You have too many rappers and not enough singers or bands and the drum machine seemed to serve Prince pretty well back in the day.

Today's R&B is hip hop, whether it's rap or not. The singers are singing over that same tired, weak hip hop beat. I don't know why they still call the charts "The R&B Chart" because it needs to be called "The Hip Hop Chart".

Prince's drum machine, back in the day, beat hard, strong, and powerful. Drum machines today don't even sound the same. They just barely tap and sound very weak.

I actually agree. When I want to hear R&B, I often end up hearing more hip-hop. I like hip-hop, but I don't know where to hear R&B anymore.

DavidEye said:

That's the trap they fall into. But that is exactly what an R&B artist shouldn't do. Look at Usher's album. Sure the lead single fell under the "guest rapper/hip hop beat" category, but the rest of that album is pretty much straight R&B. And it was the biggest selling album of 2004. People are hungry for R&B it's just up to the artists (mainstream any way) to give it to them.

laurarichardson said:

MAKE THIS STATEMENT A STICKY!

twink69 said:

while most og hip hop is garbage anyway, r&b is no better state. the R&b of today is so drab + uninspired they all sing about the same bull shit: sex, the "what if i didnt have all this money" ones, the "i will love u more than that broke mofo around the corner", the "let me show u my big ass car" ones. Jesus Christ!!! what happened to the days when R&b used to mean something? when R&b was a backdrop for talented artists(black or white) now its just turned into crap

There is some good non-hiphop-influenced mainstream R&B out there right now, but the only problem is nobody seems to want to apperciate it - instead, they wanna find little dumbs reasons not to like it.

ok..but who is going to kill the rap star.....


I'll pay ya!



Please notice...I didn't say HIP HOP star...some of them I wanna keep.

No 'hiphop' didn't kill the r&b star, the recording industry did, and we let them. See, major record labels found a way to gain more control over the music industry by diverting the music public attention from listening to music to viewing music (ala MTV videos). Why? Because if they can promote and sell an artist because of what the artist looks like than stars can be manufactured as opposed to discovered. Beautiful sexy women, and gangster thugs are a dime a minute, future truly talented artist like Stevie Wonder and Aretha Franklin are hard to find. We the public fell victim to this ploy when we accepted music videos. Do you honestly think Beyonce can sing or that P Diddy has musical talent? Hell no! Let's put the blame where it should rest. If the public didn't swallow the bate, hook, line and sinker, the music industry would have been forced to go out and discover talent as opposed to manufacturing pop stars.

The demise of R&B cant simply be placed upon drum machines (Van Hunt used drum machines extensively throughout his debut lp), or egomania. Technology and prima donnas are two mainstays in the arts that can be traced back to the classical age.

The demise of R&B is easily traced to the lack of songwriting and musicianship. No longer do musicians or studio rats devote their energies towards studying theory or music; instead, "musicians", particulary those musicians found in R&B and hip-hop, opt for learning a few chords, obtaining an extensive knowledge of crafting beats and voila.....they're instantly capable of making music.

This is why popular R&B and hip hop stylings all sound the same; stale, boring and repetitive. Cats making R&B and hip hop could benefit from learning some new chords, study some theory, learning how to play new instruments and stop trying to emulate each other.

The same can be said for most other pop music but because R&B and hip hop is so popular, it's easily held accountable.

I'm sure my take is not the only reason but it's definitely one of them and it's definitely not the size of egos and drum machines.

chuckaducci said:

I agree with you totally, but you forgot to mention one main factor, and that is TIME! Time is money, and that is why many artist including myself have opted to use a drum machine when writing(not performing), it saves time. Lots of time is what a artist will use when learning to play new instruments, time that most up and coming artist are not willing to sacrifice when they see that they can be signed now today with very limited musical skills. Can P Diddy play a musical instrument? Hell to the NO!!! Does P Diddy have fame and fortune? Hell yeah!!!

Hmm...

Time is money.

But I dont see that affecting the state of R&B music today. The producers/musicians who are presently involved are not without talent. So I would assume that if they applied themselves, learning a new instrument or musicianship would'nt take years upon years.

Whats hot right now is whats on Billboard. And that sound is what is paying. Until listeners get tired of hearing the same beat/chords or until a revolutionary makes some brand new hot shit, we'll be stuck with the same ol' watered down crap that plagues the essence of music today.

P Diddy is rich and famous because he was a genius in marketing and recognized and exploited trends.

jw914:

Do I think Beyonce can sing?
HELL YES. Poor example, buddy. I could name off a long list of women who don't deserve a record deal. Beyonce Knowles is NOT one of them. The problem is "artists" like Lumidee and those little non-singing "Move Your Body, girl" twins who waste airspace as well as the countless, endless supply of rappers with their street stories of thuggery and criminal activities that the public eats up that are part of the problem. If people weren't so lazy when it came to acquiring music, maybe this problem wouldn't be as big as it is. The labels sell fluff knowing full well that people accept whatever is presented to them on a massive scale.

BlaqueKnight said:

Hey BK, the next time you listen to Beyonce attempt to sing, close your eyes and open your ears. And she is not the only one, I would have to include Janet, Jessica Simpson, Britney and a ton of others. Envoge can sing, Gladys can sing, Minnie could sing, Yolanda Adams can sing, Phyllis could sing, Patty can sing, Aretha can sing. Fine tune your ear.

[b]If it weren't for their physical bodies 99% of today's female artist would not have gotten a record deal. Don't get me wrong, they all are not completely awful, many are just average, certainly not worthy of a recording contract. These labels are pimping their bodies certainly not promoting their voices

jw1914 said:

Fine tune my ear? Fool, I should clown you just for that comment alone. Just because you don't prefer her voice doesn't mean she can't sing. It just means that you don't know how to seperate your preferences from the ability to recognize talent. I can. There are plenty of people I don't like that I think are talented but I don't let my personal tastes get in the way of talent recognition. An A&R job is NOT for you. Trust me on that. beyonce has a long career ahead of her; and for good reason. Nothing you say will change that. Since this is off topic, I will refrain from any more comments. Labels are killing the R&B star - assassination-style. Janet said it best; Its all about CONTROL. Its hard to control a Stokley because the public can easily side with him against the label if they decide to drop him and create a demand, giving him the power to bounce to another label and make money. The trick today is to simply hide the extremely talented by pacifying them with big writer's checks or to simply not sign them if they are "too good". Labels have learned from the Prince/WB fiasco. That won't be happening again any time soon. People have to find the next Prince. Labels aren't going to support him/her.

Hey BK, in that song by Beyonce "You're my Girl"(I think that's what the title is) what musical scale is she ad-libbing in? She is just randomly scatting, no melody what so ever. Try and hum her vocal lines, you will not find any melody. You do know what is melody right?

Hey BK let's see where Beyonce's career leads her after she gains a few pounds. Acting maybe, but singing I truly doubt.

In the words of FlavorFlav. "Don't, don't believe the hype"
[Edited 8/15/05 14:30pm]

BlaqueKnight said:

BK Baby, you've made some interesting points here. I have to say you're telling it like it tis for sure. It's a sad reality to the lows that record companies have went to. The reality of the biz is something else. From the looks of things, they are not looking for true talent but, a young novelty act.