chuckaducci said:

Well, you can take a "compliment," can't you?

Second of all, you claimed that Bilal and these other artists entered into the music business for riches and fame. Did you not? I was debating this case, "brotha." I was saying you dont know what their personal aspirations are so dont assume that it's to be all up in the public's eye making money and being on the covers of magazines cos you know what.....?...they aint!

They're in this business to make money. "Brotha." You don't put your face on TV and videos and magazines if you enjoy your privacy and don't want to be famous, [i]even if such fame is a means to being successful as a musician.

You can spin this however you'd like, but it's the truth.

They may be artists, but they didn't sign deals to be starving artists, or even marginally successful artists, did they?

It wasn't I who claimed that they lacked artistic integrity. I just said they were in this business to make money, but you won't let that fact stand in the way of your argument.





You cared enough to start in on me when it wasn't about me to begin with.

"Genius." "Brotha." "Playa." I guess you told me off.

Clearly you care enough to divert the attention from Bilal to me.




So am I hitting too close to home?

Some of us don't have to be musicians to know what these ("assumed") problems can do to one's life. I find it curious that you blast me for making assumptions (that I didn't make), but then feel free to make your own . . . about the artists and my arguments.

But I digress. Let's see if we can use this banter to advance the actual issue.

If you choose to take drugs, are you not wasting your talent? Especially when you're an artist with extraordinary talent and opportunity? Every person (artist or no) deserves and is entitled to their measure of compassion and understanding during the recovery process. But at the end of the day, they've made decisions to waste the gifts at their disposal. And among the reasons they can recover is the people that support them based on a) the personal relationships they've built, or b) the reputation they've developed among the music audience. Even those people get irritated with them.

Hence, "wasting talent" or "living off a rep" can be intentional or unintentional. It could be because they're resting on their laurels. It could be because they're having serious drug or personal problems. Could be both. But regardless, they have gifts and opportunities -- in art and in life -- that people who support them, like me, don't want to see squandered. Is that really so hard to understand?

None of us are perfect, we all make our mistakes, but we hate to see others make mistakes.

If I were a "hater" I'd take joy in Bilal's (assumed) struggles. The true haters rejoice in silence.

(P.S. -- repeating the mistakes of brothers like Miles, 'Trane, Bird, Jimi and Sly, Marvin etc. with narcotics, despite having the opportunity to learn from their "struggles" is most unfortunate.)



"Brotha" . . . Just call me a motherfucker and be done with it!

Let's read what I said:



So, I spoke of Stevie and Prince, and then speak of Me'Shell's "fearlessness."
That's not putting them in the same league. I would have said, "Stevie, Prince AND Me'Shell" if I were going to do that.

Me'Shell, a contemporary of the artists I mentioned in my first post (that you completely misunderstood), is the closest thing to Stevie and Prince we have these days, but is not them. At least not yet. But she's grown beyond a Bilal, D'Angelo or Maxwell and their respective track records prove that.

But even if I had thought of Me'Shell in the same league as Prince and Stevie, so?



I can see you know . . . "BRU-THAAAA!" So now we've both used "player," you've used "genius," I've used "potna," and now we're on "Brutha." Okay, "cousin." (That makes 6 euphemistic insults, I'll wait for no. 7 from you.)

Again, look at what I said that provoked your quaint flame.



If Bilal never put out another album, it won't kill me. But it will disappoint me because I know he could make great music. Soul music needs his voice to be heard. I can be irritated by his lack of product for that reason. But I got plenty of music to dig in the interim. Maybe a new artist, some "chuckaducci" or another, steps into the breach. But it would be sad to see that voice forgotten.



The way you said it indicated otherwise and I simply pointed that out. Now you've explained yourself. To quote an orger we both know, "touche."










Instead of dealing with the issue, you decided to personalize the argument because you a) misunderstood my point, b) assumed I was speaking from direct knowledge about these artists, and c) tried to be cute about it in the process. It didn't need to be about that. Some of the musicians that have posted on here think that the average music fan can't "understand" their pain and struggles and their artistic viewpoints. That ran through and through your posts.



"boardie"?

That's SEVEN! SEVEN EUPHEMISTIC INSULTS! AH-HA-HA-HA!

You shoulda unbunched your draws and paid attention to what I said before you decided to ass-u-me and then call me out. That was what dumbed down your argument. Your perspective is valid. Artists struggle in life and in creating art. You just went about it all wrong.

But in the end, we covered a lot of angles. So we should understand each other now.

Anyone know where I can get his version of How Come U Dont Call Me Anymore?

chuckaducci said:

Great news! i think Bilal's talent shines more when he's exercising his jazz chops

TheCrucialExperience said:

i think i have it at work, but i cant check 'til monday

Scrapluv said:

Can you break in over the weekend?

I dont think not ONE of you mentioned that he is on Common's "Faithful" and can be heard singing very sofully ( at first I thought it was an older woman) with John Legend at the end.

I hope this one becomes a single cuz it has been getting play ( I heard it last night at Cub Foods too ) So u may see him then

namepeace said:

I think Bilal's case is more of "label issues" than "living off his rep". He's been active in studios and doing gigs. He's made appearances on Common's new record, with Timbole Lockhart(i know i fucked up her name, but she was featured oon the Platinum Pied Pipers record) and I've heard recording of him performing new material in Philly. He just has to get it together with the label

Scrapluv said:

In addition he's also been featured on albums by Luvpark (a jazz group that got absolutely no shine last year), Robert Glasper Trio, Boney James, and an upcoming project by Sa-Ra Creative Partners.

chuckaducci said:

-----
No one wants to see brother self-destruct. We liked to see brothers take some responsibility for their actions and do right for a change.

Scrapluv said:

Interesting. Could you expound on the "label" issues? He sounds good on "Faithful."

laurarichardson said:

Thank you.

I'm not responding to your last substantial post, Namepeace, cos it's all over the place.

I forgot what we were even arguing about.

But those "euphemistic insults" whatever that means, were started by you calling me "player."

But I'm glad we've attained some peace.

chuckaducci said:

I'm simply expounding on points of interest you raised when you didn't have to.
Look at your posts.

You opened a lot of doors for me to close.

And look back at your first post.

Lol!

You opened a lot of doors for me to close.

You've closed nothing, mon frere. Dont take my laziness and lack of interest as a concession.

I've read your posts and replies and frankly, nothing you've said thus far was substantial enough to capture my outright attention and vitriol, if you will.

But like I said, I'm new here and dont want to start off by making enemies so again I say to you...I'm glad we've reached some semblances of an accord.

And look back at your first post.

However, you are right about me initiating the sarcasm so I apologize if that upset you.

Actually, after re-reading your post, this deserves some discussion:

If you choose to take drugs, are you not wasting your talent? Especially when you're an artist with extraordinary talent and opportunity? Every person (artist or no) deserves and is entitled to their measure of compassion and understanding during the recovery process. But at the end of the day, they've made decisions to waste the gifts at their disposal. And among the reasons they can recover is the people that support them based on a) the personal relationships they've built, or b) the reputation they've developed among the music audience. Even those people get irritated with them.

Very true.


Hence, "wasting talent" or "living off a rep" can be intentional or unintentional. It could be because they're resting on their laurels. It could be because they're having serious drug or personal problems. Could be both. But regardless, they have gifts and opportunities -- in art and in life -- that people who support them, like me, don't want to see squandered. Is that really so hard to understand?None of us are perfect, we all make our mistakes, but we hate to see others make mistakes.

If I were a "hater" I'd take joy in Bilal's (assumed) struggles. The true haters rejoice in silence.

(P.S. -- repeating the mistakes of brothers like Miles, 'Trane, Bird, Jimi and Sly, Marvin etc. with narcotics, despite having the opportunity to learn from their "struggles" is most unfortunate.)

These are the most cogent things you've said in this entire thread. If you had posted this instead of what was posted initially, I wouldnt ever be in this thread.

Good points....and points I agree with.