TheCrucialExperience said:

I think that was the point. When Prince does that (i.e., SOTT), we hype him up.
Badu rocked it on Mama's Gun. It's far more conistent(ly good) than Miseducation, and far less pretentious. And we know Ms. Wright can come off a little effected at times.

I sometimes wonder whether Lauryn and that CD would've gotten as much press, had there not been that "Killing Me Softly"/Fugees wave of popularity.

Hill's popularity during that era was so overwhelming and so overblown (and, mind you, I LOVE her voice) that even *she* rebelled and followed it up with an anti-Miseducation.

ThreadBare said:

Well here's the thing - PRINCE EARNED THE RIGHT TO PULL STUNTS LIKE THAT. Badu hadn't at that time. THAT'S what's the problem with a lot of these artists: They have a bomb ass debut, get full of themselves and start believing their own hype and THEN think they can get "ABSTRACT/ARTSY" with their material or rebel against the system (Whatever the fuck that means, it was the same system that got ya ass a record deal wasn't it? ) and it usually ends up backfiring on them. Maxwell tried it. D'Angelo tried it. Badu is STILL trying it. And ALL of them lost their core fan base in doing so and have struggled mightily to get those ears back.

You have to give, both, your fans and record company some time to get your vibe before you start tryng to change it up on them. 1 album doesn't make you a fuckin' legend unless you die after it and that's all you leave behind. Fans pay the bills, so a compromise is always the best bet, and if someone in here wants to come in here hollerin' "Artists should be free to do what they want to do!" then cool, release ya shit on ya own and see how far you get. .

TheCrucialExperience said:

Yeah, I disagree. Comparing Badu in the 1990s/2000s to Prince showing up in the late 1970s is like apples & oranges. The music industries were totally different.

Secondly, I see a difference between pulling stunts and expressing artistic concepts. Who's to say Badu hadn't been reined in by her label for her debut and prevented from doing something as diverse as Mama's Gun? What if it always was in her to do? It comes off as natural to me.

Prince earned the right to release a Dig U Better Dead, Illusion/Coma/Whatever and the like? congrats, Prince. Way to go.

ThreadBare said:

Uhh...Badu's still got the ears.

She's headlining Sugar Water Festival.

"Baduizm"--5x Platinum, one 2 Grammys
"Mama's Gun"--2x Platinum, nominated 3 Grammys
"Worldwide Underground"--Gold, nominated 4 Grammys

Mind you, there was NO mainstream promotion (videos, commercial singles) for "WU" which was meant just to tide of the hard core Baduites until her next full length LP.

"Love of My Life" was a Pop Top 10. Both her shows I went to last year were sold out.

People still wanna know what she's gonna do next. She got it goin' on...

ThreadBare said:

Now I can feel you COMPLETELY on that bolded statement, and therein lies the problem: How do we decipher from what the record company wants and what the artist wants? That's why I say artists need to paly ball for a bit until htye amass a large enough and loyal following to where down the line they can't take more chances.

badujunkie said:

Hmm? And OF COURSE you're not BIASED IN ANY WAY, right, BADUjunkie?

TheCrucialExperience said:

LOL.

i could be a lil bit partial...

badujunkie said:

TheCrucialExperience said:

Not dumb at all. The album flows so nicely - I can't imagine the playlist being how they initially planned it, glad they changed it...

TheCrucialExperience said:

Because Mama's Gun is the superior album.

CalhounSq said:

he's goofy.

I think its interesting Crucial that you deem Mama's Gun an "artsy" project. I don't think many find it so out of the box but a part of the evolution and I don't thinks so far a stretch from Baduizm.

(shrug) There is a definite flow to MG. Its really about self-definition and direction. Who am I...where am I going.....

Now...miseducation had the machine behind it. It had the love from the industry but was it a better cd....i'm sorry...NOPE!!!

badujunkie said:

I pretty much agree here...
Baduizm is a solid debut. It has a flow to it but I don't think having a flow or a theme necessarily means an album will be superior in quality. I love that Mama's Gun is all over the place. You don't know what to expect but the songs are hittin' one after the other. I need some diversity from my artists. Take a chance. Besides, she was still a new artist so how could anyone really determine what direction she'd go in. Often audiences expect the sophomore album to be like the debut. The artist is just getting started and the label or audience wants to pigeon hole them. Also, I just think it was stronger lyrically and musically. I like that Badu changed the tracklisting and left it. Sometimes an artist can calculate and plan too much and at the end of the day it is what it is.

No comparison.Lauryn's CD is arguably the best R&B/hip-hop album of the 90s.Erykah Budu's music can't compare.

Badu and her sisters flow sweetly
By Kevin C. Johnson
Post-Dispatch Pop Music Critic
Thursday, Jul. 28 2005

Erykah Badu fans know she'll have something special up her sleeve when she
comes to town.

Who can forget the visibly pregnant Badu African-dancing around the Pageant
stage last year? That startling entrance began with Badu falling to the floor.
During her 2003 Pageant performance, she managed to perform never-before-heard
songs without sending fans to the restrooms. And in 2001, she turned the same
venue into the Appletree Cafe.

The soulfully quirky Badu is now headlining the new Sugar Water Festival with
Jill Scott, Queen Latifah and Floetry. The fest, coming to UMB Bank Pavilion on
Sunday, is a Lilith Fair-inspired tour for a decidedly more urban set.

"We have the opportunity to demonstrate the power of women, a platform that
makes a statement that we are all one," says Badu, interviewed this week by
phone from Detroit.

She says partial proceeds from the female-centric tour, which has drawn crowds
that are 75 percent women, will benefit charities in the various cities, and
groups the artists support.

"We're focusing on women, women in broken homes, single mothers," Badu says.

The fest features "a communal village setup that's a tribute to the
organizations that help the community" and provides "a chance to network with
the sisters who come."

Communal village, networking, sisterhood - it's all good. But the music gets
fans in the door, and the women are delivering.

After Floetry's opening 20-minute set, Badu, Scott and Latifah perform an
introductory song together, welcoming everyone.

"Queen Latifah warms them up and takes them back," Badu says. "But she also
does stuff from her jazz album that surprised me, because I hadn't heard it.
It's really jazzy."

Last year, Queen Latifah released "The Dana Owens Album," a disc of jazz
standards. Before that record, she'd made her mark as an actress, earning an
Academy Award nomination for "Chicago" and appearing in movies such as
"Bringing Down the House," "Beauty Shop," "The Bone Collector" and "Set It
Off." Well before that, she was a hip-hop pioneer, rapping hits such as
"U.N.I.T.Y." and "Ladies First."

Scott follows Latifah on the bill, giving fans "her mellow love set. She has
singers and musicians, and they're all wearing different words that relate to
peace - words like 'serenity,' 'love,' 'forgiveness,' all these beautiful forms
of compassion. She puts the audience in a loving mood."

Angelic-voiced Scott debuted in 2000 with her fine CD "Who is Jill Scott? Words
and Sounds Vol. 1," followed by the live release "Experience: Jill Scott" in
2001 and "Beautifully Human: Words and Sounds Vol. 2" last year.

"After Jill, the stage is anointed, and my job is a lot easier," Badu says. "I
bring it up with that soul stuff that they're ready for. They're ready for
'Tyrone,'" one of Badu's signature songs and a concert favorite. Other staples
include "Danger," "Otherside of the Game," "Bag Lady" and "Green Eyes," taken
from CDs such as 2003's "Worldwide Underground," 2000's "Mama's Gun" and 1997's
"Baduizm."

"My set is totally different in every city," she says, "and we each have 45
minutes to get our point across."

Badu credits Queen Latifah with coming up with the idea for the Sugar Water
Festival.

"We're all in the same kind of mind and mentality, in the same space
spiritually and with our careers," says the Lilith Fair veteran. Queen Latifah
also played Lilith.

"And we wanted to show more unity to the world," Badu says. "We all talk on the
phone and do stuff together. The three of us are not strangers. And Floetry is
like sisters to me as well. When Latifah said, 'Let's do it,' we said, 'Yes.'
We each had an idea in our mind to do a 'goddess' or 'superwoman' tour."

Badu says this is only the beginning for the Sugar Water Festival. She promises
the tour will be an annual event, with revolving artists involved.

"The beautiful thing about it, the key, is that we own it, so the sky's the
limit," Badu says.


Sugar Water Festival
With Erykah Badu, Jill Scott, Queen Latifah and Floetry
When: 7 p.m. Sunday
Where: UMB Bank Pavilion, Earth City Expressway South, Maryland Heights
How much: $24-$75
More info: 314-241-1888

DavidEye said:

can we have David banned....thanks

madonna


[Edited 8/5/05 4:29am]

Miseducation. Definitely one of my favourite albums.

I have listened to Mamas Gun a number of times but just can't seem to get into it.

Saying that, I 'In Love With You'. That song is beautiful.

Hill has the single greatest album of the 90's, so comparing it to a mildly amusing, Mama's Gun is mighty silly.

What, next, comparing Sign O The Times to the Backstreet Boys?

Whhhaaaaat? OMG, you guys are killing me. No doubt Miseducation was great but it was also just wildly popular.

Misedcuation::Mama's Gun as SOTT::Backstreet Boys is soooo wrong. LOL

2freaky4church1 said:

now now lets not make statements JUST to be provocative.

Hill = Greatest album of the 90s? rrriiiiggghhhttt...and bruce springsteen had the best record of the 80s.

CalhounSq said:

LOL! Yeah right! If they had left it the way it was originally you wouldn't notice nor care one bit!

CalhounSq said:

What, you have FACTS to back this up? Someone did a WORLDWIDE POLL and Mama's Gun came out on top as SUPERIOR TO BADUIZM? Your opinion isn't the end all of proof - not even CLOSE, trust me.

Rhondab said:

If you can't tell that Badu got more artsy/abstract on Mama's Gun then why are you deeming it better than Baduizm? Makes no sense.

And you're DEAD WRONG! - I'm NOT Goofy....I'm Pluto, dammit!

JackieBlue said:

And see, that's exactly what I mean by an artist getting full of themselves and trying something new when they don't have the established fan base to take that exact chance you speak of. Here's the thing - If she loses her fan base and her record sales drop, her label then drops her and THEN where does that leave her? Silent, for the most part. Then none of you will get to hear Ms. Badu wail. Compromise, people. That's what it's all about.

JackieBlue said:

See, and sometimes people equate 'POPULAR' to 'POP FLUFF' and that wasn't the case. 'Miseducation' was both. Can't artists attain BOTH sometimes?

TheCrucialExperience said:

huh....it makes no sense that I would have to deem Baduizm better if I don't see Mama's Gun as some HUGE artsy/abstract leap.

Purple Raib to ATWIAD...was a huge leap....I don't think Baduizm to Mama's Gun was leap that didn't make sense or was a "dangerous" thing to do for a fairly new artist.

I actually think from Mama's Gun to Worldwide was more a leap.....

YOU ARE DONALD DUCK!!!!

Now you betta agree with me....and stop all of this madness....lol.



and Freaky just needs to get laid well and he'd be singin' In love with you.

Rhondab said:

Ok fine! Booo Rhonda!

And can I be Mickey this week?

TheCrucialExperience said:

I win, I win.....

cabbage patchin'

TheCrucialExperience said:

I hear what you're saying but I don't think such a step should be categorized as an artist being "full of themselves". I also retract my statement that Mama's Gun was all over the place because ultimately I don't think it was but it was different than her debut.

Whenever a debut album is successful people get all crazy when the follow up doesn't fall into the same suit. Yes, maybe it is a matter of compromise but I also think it's a matter of trying to copy what worked in the first place. Especially from a label that doesn't really care about what the artists want.

If I'm a talented versatile artist and if West was what I created at this point in my life, telling me I can't go East on my second effort is restricting me. I go in all directions and I need to express that as well.

While different, I don't think MG and B were apple and oranges to the point where she would alienate her fans.

Originality is part of what makes great music. Mama's Gun has lots of 70's soul sass, but it does not have the eclectic power of Misseducation. And, Lauren fuckin raps her ass off.

2freaky4church1 said:

Well I definitely feel you here. I spin Miseducation for Lost Ones and Doo Wop alone. Forget Foxy and Lil Kim. It's LBoogie that gives me chills when she flows.