...its the fault of the industry and the consumer.
I mean can we REALLY knock their hustle?
People like 50, ying yang, game, ashanti, etc.... all these people some of you complain on, its just a hustle. Everyone needs a job so they can have some $$$$ in they pockets. Some want fast dollers or a career in the music biz. More power to em if they can make it, cuz it sure is hard.
Aint no use in gettin mad @ them, when instead we should be mad @ the industry that created them and mad @ the public that is nourishing them.
Don't you think if there wasn't a bit of a...demand, for it, then it wouldn't exist? These artists are just supplying what the majority wants. If the record labels wasn't lookin for these kind of people, and if the public wasn't buyin their records, then they wouldn't exist. Or they'd exist in small numbers.
But really aint no use in getting mad @ the artist for making "shit" music. Its just a hustle.

I don't care one way or another. I haven't listened to the radio in years, and I won't start trying again unless there's something worthwhile there. I'll continue to support real artists with my money. That is all you can do.

What you fail to mention is that the industry targets almost all of its promotional dollar and product to the 12-25 demographic. This is what you call the "majority", when in reality, it is nowhere near it. They have virtually given up on the older demographics, outside of a few milquetoast artists like Norah Jones. They're digging their own grave by doing this.

And, yes, we can get mad at them for turning their backs on artistry and musicianship to sell a cheap product (and like any cheap product with a limited shelf life, it's here today, gone tomorrow). And we can also get mad at "artists" for making truly terrible music when they could do so much better.
[Edited 7/31/05 9:58am]

I don't think we understand the pressures on an artist to create radio/video-ready hits just to please:

*boardrooms of label executives trying to reach a certain sales quota this quarter...
*radio programmers that only want catchy, non-challenging shit...
*distribution channels that only want to carry large bulk orders of highly commercial products...

because THOSE people have to be pleased before your music even gets out to the public.

I don't blame the artists at all. The artists are just the "hookers" but companies like Clear Channel, the record labels, and the video channels are the "pimps".

CinisterCee said:

Artists have always had to deal with those pressures (Berry fucking Gordy, anyone?), so I think it's bullshit that we have to cut the poor, pressured no-talents some slack. Uh uh. Ain't gonna happen. YOU CAN STILL MAKE GOOD MUSIC IN THIS ENVIRONMENT.
[Edited 7/31/05 10:01am]

"Whoop dat trick!"

vainandy said:

Except Whitney.

Exactly. Business comes first these days and music comes second.

Unlike today's artists, she actually has real talent so I do blame her also.

vainandy said:

Some of today's artists have real talent but make shit anyway (Liz Phair pops to mind).

VoicesCarry said:

Man that's a good point. So the problem is the people demanding crap?

CinisterCee said:

Nope. The problem is the labels turning their backs on the older demographic to sell disposable trash to teens (who have always bought disposable trash, and always will). Teens define the market these days, and that's a damn shame, I have to say. vainandy will tell you about the days when they used to play music for 30-somethings in clubs and on mainstream radio.

There are plenty of people around today with talent but the record companies aren't concerned with signing them and promoting their stuff.

VoicesCarry said:

ahh so TEENS demanding crap.

vainandy said:

I don't blame them, I respect them. I'm talking about the artists who whore themselves out for mainstream success (ie. sell out) even though they actually have talent.

They sure did. My mother was partying her ass off in clubs while I was partying my ass off in skating rinks.

CinisterCee said:

They aren't demanding it. It is all that is supplied to them. Most of them don't know anything else, so I do NOT blame the teens. It's like, say a kid is raised on McDonald's and Eggo waffles, and never learns about a proper balanced diet.

I wouldn't put any blame on the little artists with no power, just about making it in the industry, but when you achieve a certain amount of success, power comes with it. Who's the biggest selling act in the world today? Eminem. He had the power to release something truly decent last year. If he had the balls to fight for the sake of the music, but he just released a piece of shit, worse than ever before.

Dr Dre has an element of power. I think he would have had a choice or a say in the "creation" of 50 Cent, or does he genuinely think that mo'fo is talented and that they're putting out songs of any worth?

VoicesCarry said:

That's me! OK I get your point!

Exactly. With the same mess dominating the media for 15 years, a 15 year old was born into it and that's all they know unless someone else was around to expose them to other types of music.

vainandy said:

When I was 15, none of my peers could name a song that was released before 1990.

What disturbs me is that a lot of my friends I used to work with still eat this shit up. Black men and women in their 30s who grew up in the 70s and 80 that should actually know better. They're out there buying Akon and 50 Cent too.
[Edited 7/31/05 10:16am]

Ellie said:

I guess McDonald's and other junk food does get addictive once you start.
[Edited 7/31/05 10:16am]

VoicesCarry said:

I do own 50 cent's first cd because of da club.


I'll just apologize now.

sorry.

Seriously, I've been baffled at discussions with these people thinking that an album with 3 passable tracks is worth buying simply because the cost is the same worth as 3 singles. They justify it with bloody mathematics.

I was 15 when Prince released "1999" back in 1982. By that time, I had been born into the Motown era and had lived through the R&B/soul era of the early 1970s, the funk era of the mid to late 1970s, the disco era of the 1970s, the faster tempo funk era of the early 1980s that disco had influenced, and also the funky party rap era of the early 1980s. That's just going by the R&B side of the fence alone. If I were 15 today, the only R&B I would know would be hip hop. The media is not letting anything else come in.

Ellie said:

and yet they act like they don't understand downloading. Most are downloading singles.

There are still lots of people who purchase music yet still haven't ever downloaded a single track,

Ellie said:

Yeah, I don't like downloads. I want something tangible. I won't ever buy anything off iTunes.

I've started buying more from iTunes than I used to recently, but if I really want to support an artist or truly love a song I'll buy it. The stuff I buy online are usually old tracks from albums that aren't regularly stocked or sold at reasonable prices.

Anything I download illegally is because iTunes doesn't have it and I can't find it in a store or even an online store/ebay.

I'd love to see the record comapnies try to sue people who illegally download songs they can't even find to purchase.