I never realized as a kid, but after bothering to re-listen to some of his stuff, alot of his music is quite dark. For pop, it is edgier lyrically then anything pop has to offer these days.

Back in the late 80's, pop was candy coloured NKOTB stuff, yet "dangerous" was a dark album in places, as was "bad" to a lesser extent

Thats maybe why I prefer his later stuff. Its simply more edgy and paranoid. And the anger on some of those trakcs off "history" really get me angry too.

So maybe Jacko's later stuff has more edge then usher or even 50 cent, who is so cartoon like its just silly.

Michael Jackson is R&B....that pop shit is just a title.

lilgish said:

Jacko is so many contradictions, which always makes for a fancinating guy in real life or in the media. In my case, u get a hard edged newjack monster "cant let her get away" followed by the syrap filled "heal the world", so jacko gets labelled as a fluff magnet alot of times.

Pre "bad", his music was softer, but since then, he has never looked back. With OTT syrap fests and paranoid or often angry dance numbers, jacko become more interesting and more himself.


With exceptions like "the way you make me feel", not many jacko uptempo's are really about the joys of love that most peoples pop are (Prince for example).

He's a walking contradiction, it's why I love trying to figure him out He seems to inadvertently challenge all these stereotypes. Well, that's a simple way of putting it, and that's a whole other subject I can't be arsed with right now

Anyway, HIStory is a fucking beautiful album. If only that insipid shite 'You Are Not Alone' wasn't on it.

Ellie said:

Yeah I dont like "you are not alone" either. But I do love "on the line", which is in the same sorta vein. I love the middle 8. His singing is superb

"if u wanna do it now....." etc.....I gotta hear it again.

I always thought babyface wrote "on the line" when I had a boot of it. I could tell he at least produced it (u can hear him on backing vocals), but Jacko wrote it by himself. For him, lyrically, its pretty personal, if very simple. Rather sad too.

Its funny as Prince is always seen as darker musically, but most jacko songs are not happy or funny like prince's are. Some are uplifting, but not many. Songs like "why u wanna trip on me" are great to work out agression too

His vocals were never as smooth post thriller,

Hearbreakhotel is probably his darkest tune...for good reason.

lilgish said:

I ain't bothered about his vocals. I prefer his "breath'd" up voice his started properly using on the trakc "bad"


"off the wall" anf "thriller" are too standard. It's the production is why Iam saying that. I like parts of "thriller", but his later albums hit harder on the funky stuff. I prefer his "ballad voice" on his later albums too. He sounded so puny on "be not always".

And he has never sung as passionate as he has on "keep the faith" or "will you be there". Maybe as a kid, but not on his early solo records.

thesexofit said:

by early solo, you mean the adult epic albums. Got To Be There has some passionate stuff.....

oh yeah I'm working on another video...this is just a portion...not finished

http://www.putfile.com/media.php?n=a48
[Edited 7/25/05 18:39pm]

thesexofit said



so u like being angry?

prefer uplifting music myself

not that I'm adverse to lyrics with a bit of paranoia or melancholy in them, but anger? No thankyou.

Unless by angry u mean like getting pumped up for a football match or something.

Although I wouldn't put History in that category either.

lilgish said:

Not really, I think you mean that his Motown days through the Off The Wall-era was plain R&B. When he released Thrilled, he just abandoned the soul in favor of MTV and pop. He still is trying to do R&B, but it's not working...

thesexofit said:

yeah that's pretty interesting. Billie Jean is considered to be one of the greatest and most popular tracks ever and it's pretty paranoid. and it's weird it got as big as it is considering it's VERY personal and nobody can relate to stories like that.

And I agree with you, I like his 90s material more too.

And no MJ never abandoned soul, he is always soulful no matter what music he makes

"Dangerous" is indeed a very dark album. There isn't really happy love song on the album, sans perhaps "Remember The Time". But just think of "Who Is It?", "Give In To Me?". That's great break-up music, just as good as The Cure.

Of course for the obvious reasons and the thematics used in the work, HIStory is one of THE darkest mainstream pop records ever. It's also the record where Michael finally goes publicly mad even through his work: on the one hand there's the harder edged dance stuff and on the other he concludes the whole album with songs like "Smile" and "Childhood". Total madness, it's brilliant in a way he didn't even attempt it to be.

I don't know about "better", it's all very subjective, but I personally enjoy 90s Michael more than 80s because it's just infinitely more interesting. I compiled my Top 100 MJ songs recently and the 90s and 70s beat out the 80s hands down.

100% agree, his 90's work was definetly better (to me). history is my absolute favourite michael album ever, with blood on the dancefloor following closey behind, actually i include them as the same album, i wish instead of the greatest hits on history, the first disc could have been blood on the dancefloor.

Great subject Sexofit,

i always felt that way about Michaels music. thats why i probably favor the Dangerous album the most, always felt michael was great when he did his own production on the personal, dark songs..

highlights Give in to me, Who is it, Why you wanna, Dirty Diana, Smooth Criminal, Morphine, Tabloid Junkie and Stranger in Moscow...

these songs are not your average sugar pop records and not tracks allot of people familarise with Michaels style most of the time...

hellomoto said:

I'd keep the greatest hits because it represents the whole "past present and future" thing.

But I'd like to replace You Are Not Alone and Come Together with Morphine and Is It Scary. That way HIStory Disc 2 would be even more

LightOfArt said:

Oh absolutely! Anyway, here's my Top 100. It's probably changed a lot since I did it:

1. Stranger In Moscow
2. Get On The Floor
3. Money
4. Who Is It
5. Ain't No Sunshine
6. Bless His Soul
7. They Don't Care About Us
8. Dirty Diana
9. Music & Me
10. Wanna Be Startin' Somethin'
11. Don't Stop 'Til You Get Enough
12. Give In To Me
13. I Can't Help It
14. Morphine
15. Workin' Day And Night
16. Leave Me Alone
17. Human Nature
18. All Night Dancin'
19. Liberian Girl
20. The Lady In My Life
21. Whatever Happens
22. 2 Bad
23. Off The Wall
24. In The Closet
25. Will You Be There
26. Billie Jean
27. You Rock My World
28. Little Susie
29. Burn This Disco Out
30. I Wanna Be Where You Are
31. Who's Lovin' You
32. Another Part Of Me
33. Walk Right Now
34. Shout
35. Dangerous
36. Got To Be There
37. Jam
38. Ghosts
39. Bad
40. Keep The Faith
41. (Come 'Round Here) I'm The One You Need
42. Butterflies
43. It's The Falling In Love
44. Is It Scary?
45. Whatever You Got I Want
46. Beat It
47. Can You Feel It
48. Lookin' Through The Windows
49. Corner Of The Sky
50. P.Y.T. (Pretty Young Thing)
51. With A Child's Heart
52. I'll Be There
53. Blues Away
54. Don't Know Why I Love You
55. Man In The Mirror
56. Even Though You're Gone
57. I Want You Back
58. It's Your Thing
59. Music's Takin' Over
60. Shoo-Be-Doo-Be-Doo-Da-Day
61. Push Me Away
62. Baby Be Mine
63. Gone Too Soon
64. Love Is The Thing You Need
65. Never Can Say Goodbye
66. Smooth Criminal
67. Show You The Way To Go
68. Dancing Machine
69. One Day In Your Life
70. Speed Demon
71. Destiny
72. That's What You Get (For Being Polite)
73. Style Of Life
74. Why You Wanna Trip On Me
75. Maria (You Were The Only One)
76. Earth Song
77. Get It Together
78. Time Waits For No-one
79. Thriller
80. Superfly Sister
81. Heartbreak Hotel
82. Wait
83. You Can't Win
84. Come Together
85. Euphoria
86. This Had To Be
87. Greatest Show On Earth
88. She Drives Me Wild
89. Speechless
90. Doctor My Eyes
91. Give It Up
92. We've Had Enough
93. Love's Gone Bad
94. This Time Around
95. Mama's Pearl
96. I Just Can't Stop Loving You
97. Can't Let Her Get Away
98. Heaven Can Wait
99. Blame It On The Boogie
100. Cinderella Stay Awhile

We got similar tastes Ellie. Nice to not see Thriller in top 10 for a change

Check your org notes

Yes! Nice to hear " Give Into Me" getting the credit it deserves. The groove and mood of "Who Is It" is fantastic and the original video is perfect for a winter/rainy day. He's much more introspective than most people give him credit for.

I feel the same about Depeche Mode's Songs of Faith and Devotion. So many people were scared when they brought it more drums and guitar but it resulted in their most edgy, potent album.

Novabreaker said:

If only he'd bother to release albums more often eh? Luckily I havn't worn out my MJ yet (did as a small kid though)

Good god, I played "little susie" for the first time in years proberly today. Its a odd song by anyones standards. Its tragic. Ambitious is Mike post thriller.


Its great to discuss his music and not his fucking face or race for once aswell. Though those things did affect him musically Iam sure.

"invincible" was more of a return to his plain ole rnb days like "off the wall". I never have or will like "off the wall". I dont get it. If u dont like disco, u ain't gonna like "off the wall", simple as. I guess alot of people like disco.

Off "invincible", the only real oddity is "the lost children", which I will hear again soon. I remember it had a nice midddle 8 (something about loving there mothers?). I can dig it.

lilgish said:

Yeah maybe. Good tune. I like the solo.

His darkest is "lil' susie" hands down. He was deep on that song. Makes u think how artistic he can really be (becuase "invincible" was more standard pop, as I already said)

Michael's dark tunes RULE.... just listen to "Morphine".....


Demerol....oh god he's taking demerol...

listen to how emotional he sounds there... he sounds like he's about to have a nervous breakdown... MJ's emotional capacities never fail to amaze me... thats why i love him so much, he's just incredible...
[Edited 7/26/05 18:03pm]

EMattP said:

---
I have to agree..."Give Into Me" has been underrated for years...i wasn't really fucking with Mike after Thriller (Besides "liberian Girl" and some of the early stuff he did with Teddy)...But "Give Into" really comes off..it's his best and most sincere attempt at incorporating rock since "Beat It"..Slash is wailing so sick on that track...I have that shit on my Ipod on my MJ Vs. Prince mix---by the way check it out and tell me what you think...

Billie Jean-Michael Jackson History (Disc 1)
When Doves Cry -Prince And The Revolution Purple Rain Soundtrack
Don't Stop 'Til You Get Enough- Michael Jackson History (Disc 1)
1999--Prince 1999
Rock With You-- Michael Jackson/The Jacksons Live
I Wanna Be Your Lover ('88)-- Prince Livesexy Alternative (Live)
I Can't Help It--Michael Jackson Off The Wall
The Ballad Of Dorothy Parker--Prince And The Revolution Sign O' The Times
The Way You Make Me Feel--Michael Jackson Bad
Pop Life---Prince And The Revolution Around The World In A Day Rock
Wanna Be Startin' Somethin'---Michael Jackson History (Disc 1)
Moviestar---Prince And The Revolution Crystal Ball [Disc 1]
Lady In My Life--Michael Jackson Thriller
Adore -- Prince Sign O' The Times (Disc 2)
Remember The Time--- Michael Jackson History (Disc 1)
Kiss-- Prince/ Parade
Beat It---Michael Jackson History (Disc 1)
Let's Go Crazy--Prince And The Revolution Purple Rain Soundtrack
Liberian Girl---Michael Jackson Bad
Little Red Corvette-- Prince 1999
Stranger In Moscow--Michael Jackson History (Disc 2)
Joy In Repetition---Prince/Graffiti Bridge
Butterflies--Michael Jackson Invincible
What Do U Want Me 2 Do? 4:15 Prince Musicology
In The Closet---Michael Jackson Dangerous
Sexy M.F.---Prince The Hits/The B-Sides (Disc 2)
PYT (Pretty Young Thing)---Michael Jackson
Give It To Me---Michael Jackson
She's Always In My Hair--The Hits
17 Days---Prince The Hits/The B-Sides (Disc 3)
Man in the Mirror--- Michael Jackson (Live at the Grammy's)
Purple Rain--- Prince (Live at the Musicology Tour-2004)

Anybody know a really good discography listing every outtake, alternate version, collaboration, remix, etc.?

while we're at it... anyone have the URL of that site that somebody posted awhile back (last fall, maybe September) that had a bunch of outtakes for download?


post it here, or better yet, orgnote it, so it doesn't get taken out.

GangstaFam said:

These are the ones I can think of at the moment.All can be found online:

If You Dont Love Me
For All Time
Xscape
Shout
P.Y.T (a different song)
Groove Of The Mid Night
Just Friends
Hot Street
Nite Line
Trouble
Streetwalker
Fly Away
Todo Mi Amor Eres Tu
Scared Of The Moon
Sunset Driver
We Are Here To Change The World
Some One In The Dark
Sirious Effect
Cheater
Monkey Business
Someone Put Your Hand Out
On The Line
Fall Again
In The Back
Beautiful Girl
The Way You Love Me
We've Had Enough
There Must Be More To Life Than This
What More Can I Give

'Just Friends' isn't really unreleased. It was just on Carole Bayer Sager's album. Same with 'Goin' Back To Alabama' but that one's even more rare on CD these days.

As far as I know Minnie Ripperton's post-humous 'Love Lives Forever' album with 'I'm In Love Again' has never been released on CD. I have the vinyl though.

I like everything he's put out. Pretty much.

Even 'Dapper Dan'.

Dapper Dan is the shit

There are a fair few I can't stand though.