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PrintableRealMusician said: acire said: What I mean is an ability to pick up many instruments for example and somehow know exactly what to play without knowing too much about the instrument. Basically, as Prince once said, to play anything you can hear in your head, or on record, or indeed something that a musician playing next to you has just played, INSTINCTIVELY. . [Edited 8/4/05 1:33am] Ok, let's say we use that definition. Then I'm pretty sure that neither one of those you've mentioned (Coltrane, Hendrix, Charlie Parker) - and including Prince as well - are NOT musical "geniuses". In all of those cases (and most cases, really), their skills is a result of hard work, dedication and many hours of practice. Prince didn't just pick up a guitar and started to play, he learned gradually just like anybody else.  | |
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acire said: RealMusician said: But I don't think I agree with the concept of being in "the inspired state". That sounds like something that's either on or off, and for me (and most working musicians, I think) that's not the way it is. If there is such a thing as "inspiration" (and I'm not even sure about that), it comes in various degrees all the time. And most of us aren't fortunate enough to only have to work when we feel 100% "inspired" - instead we have to learn to function with whatever we have at the moment. So once again, it's really more about hard work!
Well that's your experience. Indeed, most working musicians are NOT particularly inspired, so I agree with you on that. However, others may feel inspired every time they pick up an instrument. This would not be "genius" in itself - it is whether or not what is played is of a high standard which decides that. Generally though, I do agree that it is HARD to describe genius, but if you know anything about music, you know it when you hear it. "You know it when you hear it"? I'm not so sure about that...actually, I don't think that's true at all. And also, who decides what a "high standard" of music is? | |
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acire said: RealMusician said: Ok, let's say we use that definition. Then I'm pretty sure that neither one of those you've mentioned (Coltrane, Hendrix, Charlie Parker) - and including Prince as well - are NOT musical "geniuses". In all of those cases (and most cases, really), their skills is a result of hard work, dedication and many hours of practice. Prince didn't just pick up a guitar and started to play, he learned gradually just like anybody else. You're missing my point. I never said that it is an ability to pick up an instrument from a young age and just play everything perfectly. No one can do that...everybody learns gradually, HOWEVER....to play anything you can hear in your head, or on record, or indeed something that a musician playing next to you has just played, INSTINCTIVELY....well I think that's a kind of "genius". Or you could just say "talent"...but somehow, that doesn't do that kind of ability justice. And I know that those musicians mentioned COULD do just that. So what you're talking about is basically the ability to play by ear? Well, just about any musician can do that, really. I wouldn't call that a "genius". | |
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RealMusician said: acire said: What I mean is an ability to pick up many instruments for example and somehow know exactly what to play without knowing too much about the instrument. Basically, as Prince once said, to play anything you can hear in your head, or on record, or indeed something that a musician playing next to you has just played, INSTINCTIVELY. . [Edited 8/4/05 1:33am] Ok, let's say we use that definition. Then I'm pretty sure that neither one of those you've mentioned (Coltrane, Hendrix, Charlie Parker) - and including Prince as well - are NOT musical "geniuses". In all of those cases (and most cases, really), their skills is a result of hard work, dedication and many hours of practice. Prince didn't just pick up a guitar and started to play, he learned gradually just like anybody else. I think you've missed his point. I don't think he meant that there was no time nor dedication involved, but moreso it came a lot easier than say someone who wasn't blessed with that genius-like ability. "But what of black women? . . . I most sincerely doubt if any other race of women could have brought its fineness up through so devilish a fire." -- W.E.B. Du Bois -- | |
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RealMusician said: acire said: What I mean is an ability to pick up many instruments for example and somehow know exactly what to play without knowing too much about the instrument. Basically, as Prince once said, to play anything you can hear in your head, or on record, or indeed something that a musician playing next to you has just played, INSTINCTIVELY. . [Edited 8/4/05 1:33am] Ok, let's say we use that definition. Then I'm pretty sure that neither one of those you've mentioned (Coltrane, Hendrix, Charlie Parker) - and including Prince as well - are NOT musical "geniuses". In all of those cases (and most cases, really), their skills is a result of hard work, dedication and many hours of practice. Prince didn't just pick up a guitar and started to play, he learned gradually just like anybody else. Ain't that the truth. Good night, sweet Prince | 7 June 1958 - 21 April 2016
Props will be withheld until the showing and proving has commenced. -- Aaron McGruder | |
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There is some truth in the title of this thread. You can't look up musical genius in the dictionary. But if you look up genius in the dictionary you get this:
1 & 2. according to ancient Roman belief, a guardian spirit assigned to a person at birth; tutelary deity 3. the personification of a quality 4. particular character 5. a great natural ability (for a particular activity); strong disposition or inclination 6a) a great mental capaicity or inventive ability; esp. great and original creative ability in some art, science, etc. b) a person having such capacity or ability c) popularly, any person with a very high intelligence quotient -- syn. see TALENT Webster's New World Dictionary Second College Edition Copyright 1982 While definitions 1 & 2 don't apply to the discussion, definitions 5 and 6 give the definition of a genius, whether it applies to intelligence, arts (music) or sciences. Prince and any other great musician mentioned is obviously fits the definition. So do any non-famous aspiring musicians who may still be honing their craft. The definition of genius is not set on the number of appearances on MTV (or on TV) or their recent/not-so-recent accomplishments. This subject of Prince not being a genius keeps coming up here on the org like Prince put the title on himself and said "Yes! I am a genius! Come get my next CD, or better yet buy my candles!" But the reality is, the genius thing really isn't debatable by definition of the word. So it comes down to one's perception. Which usually means this--the people who start these Prince is not a genius threads fall into 1 or more of these categories: 1) they don't look at a dictionary (no arguing with facts) 2) they haven't been happy with Prince's music in a number of years 3) both [Edited 8/4/05 9:47am] [Edited 8/4/05 9:48am] | |
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TheCrucialExperience said: RealMusician said: Ok, let's say we use that definition. Then I'm pretty sure that neither one of those you've mentioned (Coltrane, Hendrix, Charlie Parker) - and including Prince as well - are NOT musical "geniuses". In all of those cases (and most cases, really), their skills is a result of hard work, dedication and many hours of practice. Prince didn't just pick up a guitar and started to play, he learned gradually just like anybody else. I think you've missed his point. I don't think he meant that there was no time nor dedication involved, but moreso it came a lot easier than say someone who wasn't blessed with that genius-like ability. Yeah, I guess it could be that way sometimes - though not always. Besides, when someone is called "musical genius", it's usually based on some kind of results (artistic and/or commercial) - we really have no clue about whether it's been hard or easy for that particular person... | |
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Unless you are a musician, the mystery of why a song writer falls off will never be fully explained. It is a mystery that no mere man will unravel. All you others say Hell Yea!!  | |
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Housequake2K2 said: There is some truth in the title of this thread. You can't look up musical genius in the dictionary. But if you look up genius in the dictionary you get this:
1 & 2. according to ancient Roman belief, a guardian spirit assigned to a person at birth; tutelary deity 3. the personification of a quality 4. particular character 5. a great natural ability (for a particular activity); strong disposition or inclination 6a) a great mental capaicity or inventive ability; esp. great and original creative ability in some art, science, etc. b) a person having such capacity or ability c) popularly, any person with a very high intelligence quotient -- syn. see TALENT Webster's New World Dictionary Second College Edition Copyright 1982 While definitions 1 & 2 don't apply to the discussion, definitions 5 and 6 give the definition of a genius, whether it applies to intelligence, arts (music) or sciences. Prince and any other great musician mentioned is obviously fits the definition. So do any non-famous aspiring musicians who may still be honing their craft. The definition of genius is not set on the number of appearances on MTV (or on TV) or their recent/not-so-recent accomplishments. This subject of Prince not being a genius keeps coming up here on the org like Prince put the title on himself and said "Yes! I am a genius! Come get my next CD, or better yet buy my candles!" But the reality is, the genius thing really isn't debatable by definition of the word. So it comes down to one's perception. Which usually means this--the people who start these Prince is not a genius threads fall into 1 or more of these categories: 1) they don't look at a dictionary (no arguing with facts) 2) they haven't been happy with Prince's music in a number of years 3) both [Edited 8/4/05 9:47am] [Edited 8/4/05 9:48am] this is a more than suitable definition for genius. While there are plenty of musicians who would fit these criteria, it really is still pretty selective, which is something that I don't think the person who started this thread or his allies understand. Just because there a lot of so-called musical geniuses in the public consciouses, doesn't mean the term is being overused, it still amounts to only a very small portion of the population at large. If people started labeling tons of musicians they knew in their everyday lives "genius" than the point would be more valid, but as is only about a couple dozen among the most artistically and commercially successful musicians of the rock era are frequently referred to as genius, and I think that many, perhaps most of them deserve the accolade. | |
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