what a load of old balls. "musical genius" refers to the level of musical achievement or skill; whatever you want to call it. it has NOTHING to do with success.


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[Edited 8/2/05 19:44pm]

TheCrucialExperience said:

Okay Einstein.....what would be your "defintion" of musical genius, and please don't give any pyscho babble of "oh,an artist needs to grow and search themselves for something differnt, blah blah...all that shit has been said before. If what you are saying is they are/are not played on mtv, then everyone is a musical genius...heaven help us...the rock and roll hall of fame will need to be expanded.

By the way, i like your org name..."Gold" era infuenced???

thecableguy said:

Musical Genius - Someone that has mastered many instruments and can write and compose at a prolific level and rate.

And yeah, not really inspired by the Gold Experience era, I just like the sound of the name when I came up with it. I love my mind.

Adisa said:

Exactly!

"Genius" and "talent" are really just stupid terms, that don't have any real definitions.

I would say that it's almost always a matter of hard work and dedication, just like you said. And it's usually the people who aren't willing to make that sacrifice (and therefore never "make it") who like to talk about "talents" and "geniuses"...

RealMusician said:

Well Said Real Musician.

Hotlegs said:

You didnt like my deffie, Hotstuff?

TheCrucialExperience said:

Yeah, I see what you mean...but I think I'd be a little more restrictive with the "genius" title. With your definition, there would be thousands of musical geniuses around the world - including myself and a bunch of people I know...

RealMusician said:

TheCrucialExperience said:

Q, your definition is good as well but not as complex. However, you know Legs still got for you .

TheCrucialExperience said:

I conceed...well said!!!

Hotlegs said:

Hey! I wrote the book on COMPLEX!

RealMusician said:

Ok, so how would you define Musical Genius?

thecableguy said:

Thanks bro!

TheCrucialExperience said:

[color=green]Really Q[/color].

RealMusician said:

there are...

Musical genius is a savant-like ability in the realm of composition or performance of music. It is to be in the inspired state virtually all of the time and is usually tinged with a bit of what some might call "madness". Others who see it in a more spiritual light attribute it to nothing short of a direct link to God. Many musical "geniuses", like other "geniuses" in other fields have been or are afflicted with various "disorders" such as Asperger's Syndrome (mild Autism), Bi-Polar (or "Manic Depression") or mild Schizophrenia all of which seem to have gone part and parcel with their artistic temperaments and abilities. Some good musical examples are Mozart and Beethoven, both sufferers of AS. Generally speaking, "geniuses" are highly intelligent people who may not always have the said "disorders" (and disorder is hardly the word considering the heights of imagination they can achieve), but if they do, then it is often more likely that their creativity is that much greater.


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[Edited 8/3/05 20:17pm]

acire said:

Bravo! Great fuckin' deffie, yo! Is that yours or from a book?
[Edited 8/3/05 20:38pm]

TheCrucialExperience said:

Thanks. It's mine.

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[Edited 8/3/05 21:51pm]

acire said:

Good shit, man! Very good shit!

TheCrucialExperience said:

Thanks again.

TheCrucialExperience said:

I wouldn't.

The term has been so misused and overused that it has no value anymore. Besides, musical abilities are usually far too abstract to be rated or labeled in any way.

RealMusician said:

You've made an valid point. I agree with you totally.

acire said:

Ok, you might have a point, I guess.

But I don't think I agree with the concept of being in "the inspired state". That sounds like something that's either on or off, and for me (and most working musicians, I think) that's not the way it is. If there is such a thing as "inspiration" (and I'm not even sure about that), it comes in various degrees all the time. And most of us aren't fortunate enough to only have to work when we feel 100% "inspired" - instead we have to learn to function with whatever we have at the moment. So once again, it's really more about hard work!

Also, we must not forget that when someone uses the term "genius" about another person, it's usually in relation to themselves!

The average person might call Chopin a genius, but would Mozart have called him that? Ray Charles is known as THE Genius - who does he call a genius? When I was seven, I had an older friend who was nine who played the piano, I thought he was a genius at the time - today I understand what he was doing, and I don't think that anymore...

acire said:

As a Special Education Intervention Specialist, I service students who have Autism, Asperger's Syndrome, Bi-Polar/Manic Depression. Based on my years of experience of working with these students, I would have to say that your definition of musical genius as being a savant like ability is flawed. Typically, these individuals who are characterized under the savant catagory are usually only gifted in one area of skills and are not by any means highly functioning/highly intelligent.

[Edited 8/4/05 1:24am]

RealMusician said:

While it is certainly true that most critics and internet users overuse the term, there is indeed such a thing as musical "genius". In my experience, it is as I described it in my earlier post. I would say that in the modern era of music, musicians such as Jimi Hendrix, John Coltrane, Charlie Parker and yes, Prince are possessors of such an ability. However it is also true that these abilities lie in non-famous musicians all around the world.

As inferred by myself and others on this thread, "genius" is not limited to only those who have achieved fame in Western society. Therefore, to say that the term has no value is to only look to its overuse as we know it. "Genius", though indeed perhaps an abstract concept from one musician to the next, is a way of life for many accomplished musicians around the world. It is quite distinct from the usage of the same word which bad journalists like to throw around regarding whomever the "next big thing" of the week might be.

MsLegs said:

Well, I would have to say then that your view is quite limited. "Savant-like" ability is what I am suggesting...not necessarily the true savant ability to recite the whole of Mozart's Requiem after one listening, but knowing how to do little else. What I mean is an ability to pick up many instruments for example and somehow know exactly what to play without knowing too much about the instrument. Basically, as Prince once said, to play anything you can hear in your head, or on record, or indeed something that a musician playing next to you has just played, INSTINCTIVELY.

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[Edited 8/4/05 1:33am]

acire said:

Actually, your view is limited b/c you haven't had training with these populations. Many individuals within this populations have musical abilities.

acire said:

Ok, let's say we use that definition. Then I'm pretty sure that neither one of those you've mentioned (Coltrane, Hendrix, Charlie Parker) - and including Prince as well - are NOT musical "geniuses".

In all of those cases (and most cases, really), their skills is a result of hard work, dedication and many hours of practice. Prince didn't just pick up a guitar and started to play, he learned gradually just like anybody else.

RealMusician said:

Well that's your experience. Indeed, most working musicians are NOT particularly inspired, so I agree with you on that. However, others may feel inspired every time they pick up an instrument. This would not be "genius" in itself - it is whether or not what is played is of a high standard which decides that. Generally though, I do agree that it is HARD to describe genius, but if you know anything about music, you know it when you hear it.

RealMusician said:

You're missing my point. I never said that it is an ability to pick up an instrument from a young age and just play everything perfectly. No one can do that...everybody learns gradually, HOWEVER....to play anything you can hear in your head, or on record, or indeed something that a musician playing next to you has just played, INSTINCTIVELY....well I think that's a kind of "genius".

Or you could just say "talent"...but somehow, that doesn't do that kind of ability justice. And I know that those musicians mentioned COULD do just that.