y'all act like Prince never wanted 2 b a star or famous.
Man, that shit is seriously delusional. He played the whole
fucking MTV & Radio game back in the day, & why did
u think he made those fuck awful movies? The man wanted 2
b a star & acted every bit the part. Like, get real..
[Edited 8/3/05 3:48am]

because Prince, at every turn, successfully manages to sabotage any lasting success he's able to scrape together.


Madonna, on the other hand, has masterfully built success upon success, and managed to build success out of her (relatively) few failues and mistakes.

Some o' u people r just so fooking anal
about the whole artist thing, playing 700
instruments & the flute with ur buttcheeks
don't make u an artist it makes u a musician,
there's a big difference.

Prince doesn't have a fuck 2 say besides,
whoo my ancestors were slaves, & now I got
this 100 million dollars in the bank & all this mascara
so I must b a slave 2.

y'all act like Prince never wanted 2 b a star or famous.
Man, that shit is seriously delusional. He played the whole
fucking MTV & Radio game back in the day, & why did
u think he made those fuck awful movies? The man wanted 2
b a star & acted every bit the part. Like, get real..
[Edited 8/3/05 3:48am]

Madonna is who she is because she always knows exactly where she's going. She makes a decision and goes with it. Sometimes its brilliant, othertimes it slaps her in the face, regardless she keeps on going. Money and fame are totally to do with it, but i do also think that she wants to make good pop art, and in that way i believe she has integrity as an artist.

Because Madonna is the master of a game that Prince never cared 2 play.

In the 1980s, the majority of the artists released an album a year. Even in Michael Jackson's case (before he became too damn big), if he didn't have an album of his own out, he was releasing one with his brothers. Almost everyone in those days released an album a year and Prince was no exception. If you took a year off, people started to wonder if you retired or they forgot about you. In Prince's year off in 1983, between "1999" and "Purple Rain", everyone was wondering where the hell Prince was because the magazines weren't reporting on the movie yet.Things were much different back then.

Competion was much better and artists were constantly making new music. Also, albums were not milked for two and three years for every single to be released for as much money possible. If a song was released by the beginning of the school year in September, it was out of style by the time Christmas rolled around. In the 1990s, I remember hearing "Whomp There It Is" on the radio on a daily basis for three years. This would never have happened in the 1980s. As far as Prince releasing two and three album sets sometimes in the 1990s, if he didn't, I probably couldn't have made it through that decade because his music was the only thing to look forward to. Hell, I wish he had released an album a month in the 1990s.

Martinelli said:

-----
No body said P did not want fame and stardom. However, if was really that pressed we would have had Purple Rain part 2,3, and 4. In addtion, you don't see or hear from him in the public unless he is promoting a project.

Tessa said:

-----
Financially she does not make mistakes but, artisically she was never on the boat. (LOL). I think this is the kind of carreer she wanted and I think P has the kind of carreer he wanted. To each his own.
she does not make mistakes but, artisically she was never on the boat. (LOL). I think this is the kind of carreer she wanted and I think P has the kind of carreer he wanted. To each his own.

maddy is a great,powerful and strong woman,she deserve all she have, she have a difficult life when she was young ( her mother die when she was five) and she fight for be who she is.love or hated she don't let pepople indifferent.

Madonna makes "safer" records that are aimed more so for radio airplay and is much more coopertive with MTV than Prince is or ever has been.

Tessa said:

-----
Financially she does not make mistakes but, artisically she was never on the boat. (LOL). I think this is the kind of carreer she wanted and I think P has the kind of carreer he wanted. To each his own.
she does not make mistakes but, artisically she was never on the boat. (LOL). I think this is the kind of carreer she wanted and I think P has the kind of carreer he wanted. To each his own.

thesexofit said:

thesexofit:

you can't take race completely out of any equation involving musical success. Much of Madonna's success has to do with her image and style. But one has to ask WHY her image and style was so provocative and successful. The fact she was a fair-haired, blue-eyed white female made her more of a sensation. I doubt America would have made her such an icon otherwise. One could make the argument that she's Elvis' true heir.

No knock on Madonna, she's an indispensable part of 80's culture. In many ways she personified the 80's. She's a talented performer and she's played the game better than anyone in the rock era.

I'm just stating what I believe to be facts.
[Edited 8/1/05 13:18pm]

Saying it's soley an issue of race is ridiculous.

Comparing artists purely on sales shows nothing more than who sold most ("d'uh!" I hear you say).

But they show nothing else - you can't compare an artist from the 60s to an artist now on sales figures, because the industry is a COMPLETELY different ball-game now as it was then - in terms of promotion, marketing, distribution, even socio-economic terms - EVERYTHING is completely different.

So comparing artists based purely on sales figures, trying to acertain some sort of "quality of music" yardstick, it would be futile.

Now as for why Madonna is more "famous" than Prince: Well, their careers run a parallel time-frame. I think what it comes down to is "fame".

Prince wanted fame, but when he got it, he systematically hacked at it, and then when he'd hacked at it so much, he built it up again, and then he hacked at it all the more.

The commercial success he had with Purple Rain, Prince could have rode that and even built on it by releasing record and record of crowd-pleasing/critic-pleasing records. We know this, because there was material from 1983/4/5 that he could have used to make a sort of Purple Rain II (an album of similar quality and sound).

He CHOSE not to do this. He CHOSE to make ATWIAD, a record that is clearly at odds with the Rockstar Stadium guitar antics of Purple Rain, Let's Go Crazy - think of the energy of the first side of Purple Rain, and the energy of that of ATWIAD - completely different. Prince surely knew this record wouldn't be as well received by these new fans he'd picked up from the Purple Rain hype.

He wanted no promotion for the record, no promo videos, just to slip it out. He released it VERY quickly after Purple Rain, and he could have rode the PR-hype for another year or two, release another single even with the promotion, and take the PR Tour around the world.

He didn't. Why? I hazard an obvious guess that keeping that Purple Rain level of FAME was less important than what he could do with it (the freedom, the money, the success), now he had it.

Releasing records with nude covers, building an expensive recording complex far away from the entertainment industry epicenters, changing his name to a kooky symbol, not giving interviews, battling his record company, dressing the way he does, writing lyrics about the things he does, not promoting a record till it's had 5/6 singles squeezed from it, releasing record after record every year.

These aren't the actions of someone who solely wants fame and to be a popstar.

Madonna is a VERY different artist. She has taken chances with her image, but those chances were gambles on FAME to gain more FAME. The Like A Prayer video is a great example, it's notoriety was due the controversy it created, but Madonna knew burning crosses and a Black Jesus would create such a reaction, so she used to get more fame and sell her records.

Madonna's actions were geared towards selling records and keeping her fame status, not destroying it (although sometimes it's blown up her face, like the Sex Book, and the original American Life promo video).

Comparisons can be made with Michael Jackson too (since those 3 are often compared against), and the same conclusion can be drawn - Michael wrang out his albums for all they were worth in terms of singles and videos, releasing records every few years, and capitalising, financially, on that one single album completely, before moving onto the next.

Prince is the complete opposite, other than a couple of exceptions (PR and D&P) Prince has never really stuck with a project long enough to make it a huge commercial success, with 5 singles, a giant tour, professional looking promo videos, lots of TV appearances etc, etc.

He has always got bored of a project and moved onto the next (often before the current one is even in the stores), under-promoted them, less physical singles, and less commercial singles (IIWYG for example).

What is all this pontification getting at?

1) Fame is a meaningless yardstick for artistic or musical quality
2) Not comparing him to anyone else - Prince could have been A WHOLE LOT MORE commercially successful (and thus famous) than he was, but he, himself made sure this did not happen, for many reasons throughout his career, but it shows he has never considered commercial success his #1 priority.

Phew! I can feel that coffee kicking in!
[Edited 8/1/05 1:06am]

Prince fucked his own sales up by changing his style at the height of his popularity after "Purple Rain". Herds of his fans, especially a lot of the old R&B ones, left Prince and never returned. Madonna continued on making the type of music that had made her a star and didn't start changing things until the 1990s when music changed as a whole.

cause she's a ho

vainandy said:

it was actually Michael Jackson and the success of Thriller that set off this trend.

namepeace said:

But in competition with himself, and jealous of his own success, he proceeded to immediately dismantle what he had spent years creating.

Moonwalkbjrain said:

TonyVanDam said:

laurarichardson said:

then why's he always bitching about it?

Art is art, regardless. Good art and bad art is a matter of opinion but art is art. Madonna and Prince are my top two favorite artist for different reason. My admiration for Prince is strictly musical. He's an amazing musician, the best in my opinion. In my opinion, Madonna makes AMAZING music. She's not really a musician but I don't care. What she comes up with is great. Don't try to tell me she's not involved in her music neither. She was really one of the first female pop stars to write her own hits. She's been writing since her first album. She's a control freak too. You can tell by the producers she works with. Their sound always changes when they work with her due to her influence on the decision making. Even visually. "Frozen" is nothing like any other Chris Cunningham video. Speaking of visual, that's something else Madonna is good at. I think alot of people here are music heads and believe musicians should be only about music. We've been in a new era for about 30 years now. Visuals are very important to people like me. Madonna has the most brilliant video's and shows because she understands visuals. She's highly educated on art, photography, and fashion and knows how to express herself visual better than any other artist in music and no one can deny that. I also don't understand when people say controversy added to her success. The more controversial she became, the less she sold, yet she still kept it up. Madonna didn't take chances ? Are you kidding me ? Her entire career has been a gamble. Britney and Christina aren't even doing half of the things she use to do years down the line. Madonna worked hard for her success and deserves every award she has gotten. She can honestly say her career is her career because she has called the shots in every area of it. She's always the only female in the top 10 in list of the greatest artist in music. She's always up there with the big guns like MJ, The Beatles, and Elvis. Madonna is the most famous woman alive because she wanted to be and did it. There's absolutely nothing wrong with that. Give the bitch credit. She's 46 and still doing sell out tours. She's contributed more to popular culture than most artist ever have and she's still contributing. It's getting to the point where ever female artist who comes out is saying she's their idol. Britney, Christina, Pink, Lindsay ... you may not like these artist but you have to admit, that's power. She's very influencial and will be talked about forever.

namepeace said:

Millie Jackson (a black woman) was the first female to change the game for the women in the music industry with explict lyrics and open-minded sex themes.

And Millie was more than a decade before Madonna!


[Edited 8/3/05 22:35pm]

Art is art, regardless. Good art and bad art is a matter of opinion but art is art. Madonna and Prince are my top two favorite artist for different reason. My admiration for Prince is strictly musical. He's an amazing musician, the best in my opinion. In my opinion, Madonna makes AMAZING music. She's not really a musician but I don't care. What she comes up with is great. Don't try to tell me she's not involved in her music neither. She was really one of the first female pop stars to write her own hits. She's been writing since her first album. She's a control freak too. You can tell by the producers she works with. Their sound always changes when they work with her due to her influence on the decision making. Even visually. "Frozen" is nothing like any other Chris Cunningham video. Speaking of visual, that's something else Madonna is good at. I think alot of people here are music heads and believe musicians should be only about music. We've been in a new era for about 30 years now. Visuals are very important to people like me. Madonna has the most brilliant video's and shows because she understands visuals. She's highly educated on art, photography, and fashion and knows how to express herself visual better than any other artist in music and no one can deny that. I also don't understand when people say controversy added to her success. The more controversial she became, the less she sold, yet she still kept it up. Madonna didn't take chances ? Are you kidding me ? Her entire career has been a gamble. Britney and Christina aren't even doing half of the things she use to do years down the line. Madonna worked hard for her success and deserves every award she has gotten. She can honestly say her career is her career because she has called the shots in every area of it. She's always the only female in the top 10 in list of the greatest artist in music. She's always up there with the big guns like MJ, The Beatles, and Elvis. Madonna is the most famous woman alive because she wanted to be and did it. There's absolutely nothing wrong with that. Give the bitch credit. She's 46 and still doing sell out tours. She's contributed more to popular culture than most artist ever have and she's still contributing. It's getting to the point where ever female artist who comes out is saying she's their idol. Britney, Christina, Pink, Lindsay ... you may not like these artist but you have to admit, that's power. She's very influencial and will be talked about forever.

Art is art, regardless. Good art and bad art is a matter of opinion but art is art. Madonna and Prince are my top two favorite artist for different reason. My admiration for Prince is strictly musical. He's an amazing musician, the best in my opinion. In my opinion, Madonna makes AMAZING music. She's not really a musician but I don't care. What she comes up with is great. Don't try to tell me she's not involved in her music neither. She was really one of the first female pop stars to write her own hits. She's been writing since her first album. She's a control freak too. You can tell by the producers she works with. Their sound always changes when they work with her due to her influence on the decision making. Even visually. "Frozen" is nothing like any other Chris Cunningham video. Speaking of visual, that's something else Madonna is good at. I think alot of people here are music heads and believe musicians should be only about music. We've been in a new era for about 30 years now. Visuals are very important to people like me. Madonna has the most brilliant video's and shows because she understands visuals. She's highly educated on art, photography, and fashion and knows how to express herself visual better than any other artist in music and no one can deny that. I also don't understand when people say controversy added to her success. The more controversial she became, the less she sold, yet she still kept it up. Madonna didn't take chances ? Are you kidding me ? Her entire career has been a gamble. Britney and Christina aren't even doing half of the things she use to do years down the line. Madonna worked hard for her success and deserves every award she has gotten. She can honestly say her career is her career because she has called the shots in every area of it. She's always the only female in the top 10 in list of the greatest artist in music. She's always up there with the big guns like MJ, The Beatles, and Elvis. Madonna is the most famous woman alive because she wanted to be and did it. There's absolutely nothing wrong with that. Give the bitch credit. She's 46 and still doing sell out tours. She's contributed more to popular culture than most artist ever have and she's still contributing. It's getting to the point where ever female artist who comes out is saying she's their idol. Britney, Christina, Pink, Lindsay ... you may not like these artist but you have to admit, that's power. She's very influencial and will be talked about forever.

But she waited until she had halfway fallen off to become all "weird" and "far out". Prince became that way at the height of his success.

Actually, that kind of helped his career. Many of Prince's fans, both old and new, left him after "Purple Rain". By the time of "Sign O The Times", the first album after the breakup of The Revolution, Prince had a whole new group of fans, along with some of the remaining ones, that were going to buy every Prince album, no matter how it sounded.

I remember thinking each time I bought a Prince album in the late 1980s "Prince is going to really go broke with this one and I hope he does so he will get back on track". Then I would turn on the TV and see Prince performing overseas and these people going wild. I thought "Hell, no wonder, these people prefer this Prince over the old one".

TonyVanDam said:

And Betty Mabry Davis proceeded Millie Jackson, Madonna and the like, but she gets NO credit.

Art is art, regardless. Good art and bad art is a matter of opinion but art is art. Madonna and Prince are my top two favorite artist for different reason. My admiration for Prince is strictly musical. He's an amazing musician, the best in my opinion. In my opinion, Madonna makes AMAZING music. She's not really a musician but I don't care. What she comes up with is great. Don't try to tell me she's not involved in her music neither. She was really one of the first female pop stars to write her own hits. She's been writing since her first album. She's a control freak too. You can tell by the producers she works with. Their sound always changes when they work with her due to her influence on the decision making. Even visually. "Frozen" is nothing like any other Chris Cunningham video. Speaking of visual, that's something else Madonna is good at. I think alot of people here are music heads and believe musicians should be only about music. We've been in a new era for about 30 years now. Visuals are very important to people like me. Madonna has the most brilliant video's and shows because she understands visuals. She's highly educated on art, photography, and fashion and knows how to express herself visual better than any other artist in music and no one can deny that. I also don't understand when people say controversy added to her success. The more controversial she became, the less she sold, yet she still kept it up. Madonna didn't take chances ? Are you kidding me ? Her entire career has been a gamble. Britney and Christina aren't even doing half of the things she use to do years down the line. Madonna worked hard for her success and deserves every award she has gotten. She can honestly say her career is her career because she has called the shots in every area of it. She's always the only female in the top 10 in list of the greatest artist in music. She's always up there with the big guns like MJ, The Beatles, and Elvis. Madonna is the most famous woman alive because she wanted to be and did it. There's absolutely nothing wrong with that. Give the bitch credit. She's 46 and still doing sell out tours. She's contributed more to popular culture than most artist ever have and she's still contributing. It's getting to the point where ever female artist who comes out is saying she's their idol. Britney, Christina, Pink, Lindsay ... you may not like these artist but you have to admit, that's power. She's very influencial and will be talked about forever.