TheCrucialExperience said:

Uhhh...Voodoo sold close to 1.7 million copies and had a single in "Untitled" that was virtually inescapable on radio and TV...Not to mention dude had a successful tour...Of course this was before he went crazy on the coke and started looking like ODB (R.I.P.)..Still, I wish I had that type of failure as an artist....

Now my boy Maxwell has to come out of the closet!

TheCrucialExperience said:

Uhhh...Voodoo sold close to 1.7 million copies and had a single in "Untitled" that was virtually inescapable on radio and TV...Not to mention dude had a successful tour...Of course this was before he went crazy on the coke and started looking like ODB (R.I.P.)..Still, I wish I had that type of failure as an artist....

murph said:

1.7 million isn't great for a sophomore effort coming off those exact same debut numbers. In fact, if you took away the video for Untitled, the album flops. That video MADE that album.

Am I the only one who cannot stand Goapele? And am I the only one who hasn't heard Embrya?

TheCrucialExperience said:

Which is why he resorted to looking like O.D.B. from my understanding.

Am I the only one who cannot stand Goapele? And am I the only one who hasn't heard Embrya?

SupaFunkyOrgangrinderSexy said:

Man, Goapele is the shit! I love that sista's vibe! And Embrya sounds like outtakes that didn't make UHS. I thought Embrya was a creative mess.

TheCrucialExperience said:

I bought a Goapele album based on a review and thought it was total shit, although "Romantic" is the bomb song and I used it on a mix.

As for Embrya, I'll just have to wait till i hear it

murph said:

1.7 million isn't great for a sophomore effort coming off those exact same debut numbers. In fact, if you took away the video for Untitled, the album flops. That video MADE that album.

SupaFunkyOrgangrinderSexy said:

i sorta like goapele. I just take her for what she brings.

TheCrucialExperience said:

I bought a Goapele album based on a review and thought it was total shit, although "Romantic" is the bomb song and I used it on a mix.

As for Embrya, I'll just have to wait till i hear it

TheCrucialExperience said:

Dude is not MJ or Mariah Carey...He's a grass roots R&B artist...His Okay Player circle are known for not going with crowd...They do shit on their own terms like a certain other guy we respect and love on this site...The fact that Voodoo even sold close to 2 million copies is a miracle...The sales of Voodoo matched the sales of his debut release, but the difference was that tour that supported Voodoo was also hugely successful...And not only did Voodoo do well commercially, it also scored with music critics...To me that album is the closest thing to a young music fan having a Prince '80s album...And as for the "Untitlted" video helping push the album, I thought that was the point of a making videos...to promote an album...

SupaFunkyOrgangrinderSexy said:

You're right about Romantic. That's the only decent cut I've heard from her.

murph said:

Now you wanna have 2 seperate standards for artists and you can't. 1.7 million copies isn't much anymore. D' shoulda done that much in his sleep. VooDoo was considered a commerical bust. Now you wanna talk about small groups of friends that liked it, and that's cool, but that's not what we're measuring here. Then you mentioned the tour, which was never a part of the discussion. We were discussing his album NOT his tour. And the reason I brought up the Untitled video was because had that video not been the hit it was than the album had nothing else left on it. Send It On didn't do anything after it was released, why was that? Because it was a weak song. So like I said, if you take away the nude video, what did he have beyond that? Nothing, and that was proven after the hoopla around his nude video subsided.

TheCrucialExperience said:

Respect...You make some interesting and telling points...Yes, you are correct...The video helped propel "Voodoo to much of its success...and that was the plan...Videos are used to promote albums, the last time I checked...And they hit the proverbial ball out of the park with that clip...But here's the reality...D'Angelo went from going platinum with his first album to selling 1.7 million of his follow-up...Flop???? But the bottom line is this: Mariah Carey is expected to sell more than D...Usher is expected to sell more than D, Britney Spears (in her so called prime) is expected to sell more than D...If these artists go double platinum or even lower, it's a problem for them (And what the hell does that say for the music industry???) These are all acts that have consistently for the most part gone multi-platinum and even higher...D is not a pop artist or the standard R&B artist for that matter like say Alecia Keys, R. Kelly ect...D has never seen those type of numbers....Hitting close to double platinum for him is a success, especially with an uncompromising album like Voodoo...Now I brought up the tour because that's part of the promotion of an album..D's not a heritage act like say Prince, who can tour on his past material..If you are bringing out a flop album as a follow-up to your debut, chances are you will not have a successful tour...And D did...

If this is any use to you, as a music journalist I've been in the game for 10 years..And during my travels I have written or ran in the circles of such publications as Vibe, Rolling Stone, Spin to XXL, The Source ect...And i can tell you that when the the dust settled for the Voodoo album project no one was calling it a flop..the music industry was not calling it a flop..the labels were not calling it a flop..and certainly the music journalists were not calling it flop...they were hailing his artistic bravery and the fact that he went away from the neo soul trappings of his first release (Which by the way i liked a lot).But, D (and to a certain degree Ms. Badu) left their neo-soul camp in the dust...

Hey...I get it..You didn't like Voodoo..I can accept that because it was a hard album to digest...But I believe (just my opinion) that you are basing your statements on your expectations for what YOU wanted Voodoo to be..You wanted to hear "Brown Sugar", not a long form jam...It's that simple...
[Edited 7/27/05 15:13pm]

Also, take his liner notes On VooDoo (Written by ?estlove) in which he (D') openly compares himself to Prince and even steals a line from Prince by saying "He could've gave us Brown Sugar in another key and no one would know the difference", well, he stole that from when Prince stepped out from Purple Rain and did ATWIAD and said "I could've easily done the Let's Go Crazy guitar solo in another note and no one would've known"...So yeah, D' was full of himself on VooDoo and it reflected in his material, as it was kinda weak and murmurred throughout. Half-assed effort if you ask me. I was expecting somehting stronger after a 5 year hiatus.

murph said:

I feel you on some points, but you have to realize that music companies put out monies to market/advertise their artists. The bigger the artist, the bigger the paper that goes into promoting that artist. 1.7 million is relative as long as they keep D' on that leash. In other words, if they don't spend too much marketing him and he can keep pulling those numbers then everything is cool. But once he becomes unmarketable, he's done. Period. If his sales dip under 1 million, D' is done as an artist because the music company then loses money.

So, was it a flop commercially? Yes. Was it a flop critically? Some say yes and some say no. I've heard mixed reviews from critics and fans, mainly negative ones about how he took 5 years to drop medicore material. I agree.

And my opinions are based as an avid fan/listener (And too have written reviews for film and music) and it has nothing to do with what I wanted to hear but moreso how artists tend to get full of themselves, creatively, and start to venture into areas only THEY understand from an artist POV and then end up alienating their audience.

Also, take his liner notes On VooDoo (Written by ?estlove) in which he (D') openly compares himself to Prince and even steals a line from Prince by saying "He could've gave us Brown Sugar in another key and no one would know the difference", well, he stole that from when Prince stepped out from Purple Rain and did ATWIAD and said "I could've easily done the Let's Go Crazy guitar solo in another note and no one would've known"...So yeah, D' was full of himself on VooDoo and it reflected in his material, as it was kinda weak and murmurred throughout. I was expecting somehting stronger after a 5 year hiatus...Half-assed effort if you ask me. .

murph said:

saul williams wrote the voodoo liner notes

TheCrucialExperience said:

Thanks homie...you make some great points as well...But I think your last line says it all:"I was expecting somehting stronger after a 5 year hiatus" I can respect this statement...But it just sounds like you are saying it's a flop because you personally didn't like the album..Also, your statement on how much money the label put into the project...that's just par for the course in the music biz...They gave the man two videos which is not exactly a bank breaker (Did you even see the Chicken Grease" video? It looked like a film student did it)...

As far as the Prince thing, he's the man's hero so D's going to reference him from time to time...When dude is not snorting that powder, he is one of the more talented cats in the biz..

I know what I know...And what I know is that fans that wanted to hear "Brown Sugar" and "Lady" and "Cruising" didn't like Voodoo...And there's nothing wrong with that...But I also know that people that appreaciated a non-formulatic statement album loved the fact that D went the extra mile to make something that was fresh and challenging and at some points, very impressive ("Africa," and "Root" comes to mind)...If D had sold say, 3.5 million of his first album, your point would be valid...But as is, he was never an overtly commercial artist to begin with...5 years between albums would be a death sentence for most artists..It would even be tough for someone with an even more commercial stake (say Alecia Keys, Usher ect...) The fact that the man sold more albums, kept his integrity and had one of the most critically acclaimed records of that year says a lot...But it's all good...You make some knowledeable points...

SupaFunkyOrgangrinderSexy said:

i sorta like goapele. I just take her for what she brings.

Scrapluv said:

Ok, then maybe the quote was by ?est in the liner notes, anyone have the liner notes handy to verify? Thanx.

murph said:

-----
I feels you, but it wasn't just me who felt it was a flop, critics and fans felt the same way.


Murph says--Maybe some of the fans that wanted "Brown Sugar"..And fot the record, most of the reviews for that album were very positive...

----

That's why I said if you take away the naked video, this doesn't even go plat. I know vids are used to push the album but what happened to the album after the nakedness died out? It flopped. "Send It On" didn't do jack. Then ask yourself why they gave him 2 videos?
----

Murph--Because they felt they could go as far as they could with the album and the tour was already kicking ass..Dude is not Usher...He's not a singles driven artist...D'a an album driven artist....


----
Because his 2nd flopped. They issue vidoes based upon sales of the CD and of the previous single, supply and demand. Had Send it On blew up, he would've gotten more videos, but he cooled off after the nakedness and the album was so-so after the hype of the naked video.
---

Murph---See ladder post...


----
As for him idolizing Prince, I think that was his BIGGEST mistake, trying to stake claim to being his predecessor when he hadn't done jack shit to start with. Sure, the creativity was there, but the longevity and discography wasn't. It appeared he was more worried about being the next Prince than he was being the first D'Angelo, and that was his downfall. You can't assume Prince's throne after a nice ass debut and countless comparisons to the man. Naw, you gotta earn that shit.

Murph---No his down fall was the drugs...He was doing just find before that...And please put down the purple Koolaid (LOL).....


----
And see, I never saw VooDoo as fresh but as trite and contrived. The material seemed very weak and uninspired. Almost thrown together after he FINALLY landed another record label. That murmur speak-sing he was doing was on some whole nother shit that just wasn't vibin', which furthered my opinion on him just making up soem shit and passing it off as his 2nd album.

---

Murph---Again...I can't argue with you about that because it's all opinion...some people think the Parade album was great and some people think it was crap...All opionion....

---

But we do both agree that the man has amazing talent and we can only HOPE he can return to his greatness and drop some nice shit for years to come.

Rhondab said:

the released single was awesome but the album was lacking focus and direction...

TheCrucialExperience said:

Agreed and much respect...I think he has other things he needs to worry about at the moment, however...As for my replies check up top....Peace...

TheCrucialExperience said:

saul wrote all the liner notes except for the credits and d'angelo thank you's.

I think here is the quote you were referring to:

"now, you may ask, well what does this have to do with D'Angelo? my answer: inspiration. here is a peer that is focused wholly on his craft and has given himself the challenge of bettering himself. i mean really, D could have come out with any ol follow up album after Brown Sugar dropped so that he could double his sales why he's still hot. you know, an album that sounds just like Brown Sugar, uses all the same formulas, so that audiences don t have to think... or grow, they just keep liking the same shit. he could even sample songs that you're already familiar with so that you don t have to go through the hard work of getting used to a new melody or bass line. y'all don't hear me."

The liner notes are on Saul's site
http://www.americanrecord...ml#dangelo
[Edited 7/27/05 17:39pm]