Stymie said:

LL's been around for a long time but what he says doesn't move me like Pac did/does. I dunno: LL's party and Pac's stuff had a lot of social commentary.[/quote]


LL is much more important than that. He was the prototype solo MC. He was the first to prove that a solo MC could be real, while being commercially viable. Every solo MC, whether it's Redman or Biggie or Cube or Pac or Luda or Fitty, has James Todd Smith's hip-hop DNA in them.

TheCrucialExperience said:

You're probably right, unfortunately.

namepeace said:

LL is much more important than that. He was the prototype solo MC. He was the first to prove that a solo MC could be real, while being commercially viable. Every solo MC, whether it's Redman or Biggie or Cube or Pac or Luda or Fitty, has James Todd Smith's hip-hop DNA in them.[/quote]You think so, Peace? Very interesting viewpoint.

Did I mention that I'm in love with MC Lyte?

GangstaFam said:

I love her butch ass, too baby.

Slick Rick should be number one. Public Enemy number two.

Where's Colin?

HamsterHuey said:

You know an "all-time" list is bullshit with no mention of Boogie Down Productions.

GangstaFam said:

Me too

CinisterCee said:

I'm 'bout to have some Cappucino.

Stymie said:

I'm not denying their talent. I like them both quite a bit. But best of all-time? Not even close for me. You could convince me that 2Pac belongs on that list somewhere, but you couldn't do the same for Biggie.

Stymie said:

What can I say? She just does it for me. Have you seen her in that "Fighting Temptation" video?

Stymie said:

Indeed I do think so.

1. LL was the first solo MC to sell a lot of albums.

2. LL was the first solo MC to come at you hard without a crew with ill lyrics and mad braggadocio.

3. LL was able to appeal to the fellas with his rhymes and the ladies with his looks.

4. LL was the first hard MC to hit with a love ballad.

5. LL has a string of classics from "I Can't Live Without My Radio" to "Rock The Bells" to "I'm Bad" to "Jack The Ripper" to "Goin' Back To Cali" to "Mama Said . . ."

For sheer artistry, Rakim is the prototype MC. But for the MC as star, LL is the one everyone patterns themselves after.

TheCrucialExperience said:

I love Queen La. I wish she'd go back to her roots, make another rap album and stop with all this ersatz jazz s**t.

namepeace said:

LL is much more important than that. He was the prototype solo MC. He was the first to prove that a solo MC could be real, while being commercially viable. Every solo MC, whether it's Redman or Biggie or Cube or Pac or Luda or Fitty, has James Todd Smith's hip-hop DNA in them.[/quote]

Co-sign.

Most of the emcees on that list owe their style and swagger to folks like LL.

JANFAN4L said:

And since the Queen was mentioned in here. I might as well throw in this article about her recent performance during a New York stop of the Sugarwater Festival (which I'm now MAD I missed)...


LATIFAH RULES A SPARSE HOUSE
Yahoo News

WHILE the Sugar Water Festival — a Lilith Fair for urban women featuring Erykah Badu, Jill Scott and Queen Latifah — was a souled-out affair, the trio only moved 6,000 tickets at their Jones Beach gig Tuesday.

That's in a theater with a 15,000 capacity; and while the sparse crowd made exiting the parking lot easy, the performances by Scott and Badu were hurt by the empty seats.

Only Queen Latifah prevailed — too bad her opening slot was too short.

Latifah, who honed her chops in the late 1980s as one of the most successful female rappers, used the best of her songbook to shake up the small house. Songs like the girls-on-top hit "Ladies First" became the theme for the entire concert.

She also was very good on a few R&B and pop standards, including "Mercy, Mercy, Mercy," and "Hello Stranger (Seems Like a Mighty Long Time)" — sung to her dad, stepping onto the stage from the wings.

When Latifah wasn't getting the applause she deserved late in the set, she took matters into her own hands, got off the stage and worked the fans up close and personal, in the stands, with her hit "U.N.I.T.Y." At the close of that number, she owned Jones Beach.

Jill Scott went on next, and hit her concert high with her hit "Whatever" where she belted the title words in fantastic rapid-fire repetitions that reminded you of what Bill Withers did in the song "Ain't No Sunshine" with the "I know, I know" lyric. It was a fine, workmanlike performance, but Scott never really took command of the house.

Badu, the final act, had the most stage time and did the least with it. Wearing a kimono and her hair in an Afro that looked like it needed recharging, the singer projected a just-rolled-out-of-bed image.

She is an exceptional singer, and she occasionally proved it. But for the most part, her set was as sleepy as she looked.

namepeace said:

Say what? Is this rumor??

CalhounSq said:

no, I think Namepeace disagrees with some of his political statements.

lilgish said:

Yeah, I was exaggerating a tad. As much as I love the Teacher, that ish he was saying on 9/11 and "justice" was beyond the pale. I can take some contradictory positions from him, but that was beyond the pale. Especially from a self-professed humanist.

That ramshackled ass list must be New York based!
Everybody knows 2pac should be #1, but New York people.

namepeace said:

His actual comments (in context) or the newspaper versions? Or both?

CalhounSq said:

The comments in the newspaper were crazy. His comments in "context," including an online op-ed, didn't help him either.

paisleypark4 said:

You just made the case for Snoop being on the list. Everything you said about Em is true about Snoop + 8 or 9 years.

Same with LL. That cats survived 20 years in a genre that chews up and spits out cats in a quater of that.

I'm ok with most of the list, But Em, Nas and Wu being on there doesn't sit right with me.

intha916 said:

Em and Snoop could make a top 50 list but not a top 10.



Agreed on LL. See my comments above.

I agree on Em and Wu (altho Ghostface is brilliant, and Genius is nice but is hurt by his production). Less so on Nas, who I think would make rank b/w 10-20.

my humble

WHere's Mos Def?

*much obsess*

namepeace said:

I wasn't making a case for Snoop in the top 10. Only pointing out, using the reasoning that puts Em on that list, would force you to put Snoop ahead of him. Snoop is top 20. Em top 30-40 max.
[Edited 7/15/05 15:48pm]

I wasn't making a case for Snoop in the top 10. Only pointing out, using the reasoning that puts Em on that list, would force you to put Snoop ahead of him. Snoop is top 20. Em top 30-40 max.
[Edited 7/15/05 15:48pm]
[/quote]

That is ridiculously funny. Snoop ahead of Em are you serious."2 plus 2 that equals 4, This is som shit that can last forever mo'!" What?
Why?

Here is the list, and my list is based on impact, style, and lyrics.

1.Jay-Z

2.NWA

3.Tupac

4.Rakim

5.Run Dmc

6.Public Enemy

7.Biggie

8.Tribe Called Quest

9.LL

10.Eminem

intha916 said:

Fair enough.

popgodazipa said:

Okay. Stop. Right. Here.

Without the 18th letter, the R, there is no Jigga and there is no Pac.

Now, I think Notorious BIG is an outstanding emcee, but it always seems like in a list of TOP TEN ANYTHING.. 2pac earns his place, and guilt-ridden writers put Biggie right beside him.

We should keep in mind who should technically be in spots #11-20, yknow?


("earns" not "ears" edit)
[Edited 7/16/05 0:57am]

namepeace said:

I agree, but Rakim's impact was limited to just the rap genre and a certain style of rappers.