Pat Metheny
Richard Bona

blackbob said:

whilst there is no doubt that lennon and macartney wrote some of the best songs ever, and the work between rubber soul and abbey road is outstanding, i wouldn't really call them geniuses, however i would with brian wilson, perhaps i'm 2 much of a beatles fan and i've heard and seen and read so much about them that the idea of genius wouldn't spring 2 mind. macca is 2 down 2 earth, he and john wrote a load of great songs, but also wrote a load of complete crap

i would say brian wilson, stevie wonder, miles davis, frank zappa and of course prince r true geniuses, but i wouldn't say that 4 many other ppl, perhaps marvin gaye

obviously artists like bowie, clinton, roger waters, dylan, hendrix made a load of gr8 and highly influential music and helped change the face of music 4ever, but they always wrote and recorded large amounts of crap (mind brian wilson also did, and the few geniuses i listed also have spells of awful or poor music).

i think being a musical genius is some1 who has created something xtraordinarily different and xciting, and helped change the face of music in some way, but also it has something 2 do with the lifestyle and they way they continued 2 make music, this is where the other artists listed fall down

perhaps hendrix image was tarnished badly due 2 the post humous release of so much awful material. he was a gr8 guitarist, but not such a gr8 writer

dylan wrote some gr8 songs, but he kept on churning out stuff, and a lot of it just sounds the same. musically it all sounds so similar. take zappa or wilson, they kept on changing or trying 2 change sound

howie also kept on cha cha changing, but he just can't b 4given 4 tin machine. i actually like some of his early 80s stuff, but the later stuff was just awful, and i cant honestly say i could name a gr8 bowie song from the 80s or 90s. i wouldnt say scarey monsters and super creeps was his last gr8 album, i would say that let's dance was, loving the alien was also a gr8 track and the album had a couple of others, but it just peaked out from there

roger waters was the driving force behind 1 of my favorite bands pink floyd, but when u hear some of the awful demos and crap he also did, u couldnt really call him a genius. a gr8 writer, but not a gr8 musician. gilmour had 2 play a lot of the bass lines on the classic floyd albums cuz rog just wasnt up 2 scratch

clinton and sly made some gr8 tunes and albums, but sly got fucked up on drugs and couldn't b bothered his arse 2 make any more, whilst clinton decieded 2 continue 2 make albums, and the listeners wished he hadn't bothered. out of his later "solo" period he has only 2 or 3 decent trax, compared 2 the dozen or so fantastic parliament/funkadelic albums. a true genius 2 me doesn't fritter out, which is y i don't consider macca and lennon geniuses

brian wilson is xcused from frittering out as he was so fucked up he needed a full time leach 2 take care of him, and at least now he has the sense 2 tour his gr8 classic albums rather than torture us with the unlistenable crap he has written lately

i dunno y, but i dont, and have never considered any women musicians geniuses. sure joni and ani r gr8 and have made some gr8 albums, and kate bush has had her moments, but i dont think they cross in2 the genius category. a genius doesnt give everything up 2 raise a child like kate bush, a genius would do something fucking nuts instead whilst raising a child. joni has just kept on making decent albums mind, she doesn't dissapoint. she is just very talented rather than genius, same with neil young. u can 4give him 4 the 80s as his 70s stuff was so good, he also had his moments in the 90s, and not all his 80s stuff was really that bad

zappa also made some unlistenable crap, but i don't think any1 can doubt he is a real genius. a real genius is talented, prolific, varied, unique, and not afraid 2 make way out there music that only actually sounds good 2 them in thier periods of heavy drug abuse - this is not 2 b confused with making shit music cuz ure just fucked up on drugs, lame half assed crap - it also helps 2 b completely off ure fucking trolley if u want 2 b considered a genius. the further away from reality ure mind resides, the closer 2 genius u become

unique said:

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very good reply, unique.....i find myself agreeing with you on almost everything there....i have no problem considering zappa and miles davis as genius material...maybe zappa didnt really write enough great songs for me to qualify....he was a brilliant musician, no doubt about that and wonderfully inventive.....miles davis i would say was a musicial genius, but he was jazz, of course, and i wouldnt try and say i have heard enough jazz to make an opinon about other jazz artists....i also think that although there are some brilliant female artists around....kate bush...bjork....joni mitchell...none qualify as a musicial genuis for me.....i think you have to be slightly f**ked up in the head to be one and thats why its all men :-)

Isel said:

tortured artist is very different 2 genius, yet again, i can't think of any women artists who fall in2 that category

if u take the women mentioned 4 xample, joni mitchell, she aint had a bad life at all. popular since her 1st record, and when she was young she was a looker. the same thing seems 2 apply 2 most female artists, it's probably true 2 say most of them owe a lot 2 thier looks rather than musical abiltiy 4 thier fame. take kate bush 4 xample, dave gilmour would've hardly paid 4 her demos if she was ugly, and her video 4 babushka certainly didn't help on top of the pops.

the other reason y the women don't feature so prominently is also because there arent many well known successful female artists who r multi instrumentalists, writers and producers, the names mentioned all relied on other big names 2 get them where they r. take bjork, the sugacubes were a cult indie band b4 she got nelly hooper and ever popular producer and remixer under the sun working on material 4 her. same with madonna. u could take almost any good looking female with a half decent voice, give them some vocal training, the best writers and producers and tunes, the best in video producers, and they will have a hit record. thats all u c on mtv now

4 men tho, men join bands and write music 2 try and pull women. thats where the torture and the genius begins. look at the names mentioned as true genius. none of them would b pulling if they weren't famous musicians, xcept marvin gaye perhaps. i think he is probably the most underated genius as most ppl consider him just a soul singer without realising how gr8 his less popular works were, like here my dear and trouble man. what's going on is 1 of the 5 best albums ever made, and its not just in the production as u can hear by the early mixes and takes. like with stevie wonder, he had 2 break the mold and make it on his own after renegotiating contracts with berry gordon, and like most geniuses he got fucked up on drugs and eventually shot 2 death by his father, after battling a number of other personal problems like his divorce

...these choices COULD reflect that the music business is STILL dominated by men, and women just aren't taken as seriously as artists. Maybe that's because in general female artists more so than men rely on "sex appeal" rather than nurturing and developing talent or having something significant to say or contribute...

he is a gr8 and talented musician, but no genius. he falls down on the writing side, and like u say he is 2 commercial...