I was just spinning "Peace beyond passion" by me'shell and realised how similar in style, music, lyrically and groove "The velvet rope" is to this album, Do you think Janet was listening to PBP while recording TVP? or was inspired by that album?


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[Edited 6/20/05 22:41pm]

it is possible. PBP was released June 25, 1996 and Velvet Rope was released October 7, 1997. I don't hear much that sounds the same, but both albums have a desperate drive to them. PBP is a statement album, as are most of Me'Shell's albums, Velvet Rope was Janets album to put out truths veiled in Lyric. She had been going through a lot of personal issues and was trying to find her way out of a dark spot via music. Me'Shell is the activist who wants to stir you with her music and open up your mind so that you may reach beyond the things that hold you back i.e. Peace Beyond Passion. I think that is perhaps the greatest Album title ever.

It makes me cringe to have any comparisons of Meshell's masterpiece to any of Janet's pop fluff....

sdekm1 said:

Let me co-sign your statement, there is no comparison!

Oh your so superior!( Remeber people we r not the music we listen to)

please Me'shell and Janet are both humans, why can't they be inspired by each other.

a better comparasion might be BITTER AND VELVET ROPE, I think maybe Me'shell was inspired by this album when she recorder BITTER? even the album cover envoke the same emotions

p.s both those albums are great, if you like "The velvet rope" you should check out BITTER and Peace Beyond Passion

funkaholic1972 said:

Let me three-sign this with you guys.

minneapolisgenius said:

hardly call Velvet Rope fluf. but whatever. personally I see simalarities between these album, both those ladies were steeped in depression when writting and producing he records

Janet was definitely inspired by both modern and old school soul during the creation of The Velvet Rope. In an interview, she said that her brother Randy used to listen to Joni Mitchell all the time and rubbed off on her musically. She personally tracked down Joni and called her to interpolate her song "Big Yellow Taxi" into "Got 'Til It's Gone." Both were ecstatic to work with each other. Q-Tip was brought in after Jan heard his work on The Brand New Heavies' "Sometimes." She loved the sound and vibe of that track. Q was on JayDee's remix of that particular cut, so Janet tracked down both Q-Tip and JayDee and asked them to be a part of The Velvet Rope.

If you listen to The Brand New Heavies' "Sometimes (Ummah Remix)" it sounds similar to Got 'Til It's Gone. In total JayDee produced 3 cuts that were commercially released: GTIG (album version), GTIG (Ummah JayDee's Revenge Mix) and GTIG (Uptown Saturday Night mix avec D'Angelo on keys). I know there's probably more vaulted.

Janet also recorded a song for a Joni tribute album entitled "Beat of Black Wings," but at the last minute it was vaulted.

Joni has also inspired Meshell. So indirectly, both women drew inspiration from Joni and that could kind of explain why these albums seem to sonically draw from the same well. I don't believe Meshell directly influenced Janet's TVR. The lyrics on both of their LPs are very confessional and introspective. They come from a bitter, elegaic state. PBP was Meshell examining herself and her self-worth, same with Janet's TVR. While Meshell's was recorded in '96, Jan's was recorded in '97.

The Velvet Rope sessions lasted a total of 1 1/2 years, her longest recording session at the time (usually her albums take a month or two to finish) and recorded a total of 20 tracks (3 are vaulted). She often took breaks from recording TVR because it brought her down at times. I read in several interviews by Jam & Lewis that Janet left the booth in tears and would take long, intermitted breaks between sessions. She meditated daily during recording. On a few occasions, she took road trips to the desert to see a spiritual advisor, she starting diving into African art (which explains the Sankofa symbol emblazoned all over the imagery of the record -- a West African symbol of an Akan word meaning: "In order to look into the future you have to look into your past") -- which she, Tina Landon and Shawnette got tattooed on their bodies at the same time, body piercings (which is also very African), etc.

All in all, no. Meshell's PBP didn't influence TVR. They both came from entirely different spaces.

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[Edited 6/21/05 12:19pm]

twink69 said:

I like both, twink. VR is good. Bitter is GREAT.

All due respect, Me'Shell was inspired by the loss of her girlfriend, and drew on her musical influences to channel that inspiration. I don't think Janet is one of those influences.

As much as I love her, Janet isn't the musician that Me'Shell is and doesn't have a fraction of the talent Me'Shell does.\

A better comparison would be Velvet Rope and Cookie.

I agree with JANFAN's post above.

namepeace said:

"Bitter" is an excellent, excellent record. I love that album and have played it hundreds of times. I, being a huge Janet fan, have never once compared any work of Janet's to that of Meshell's.

namepeace, I totally agree with you, but I will say that Meshell and Janet in comparison is grossly unfair largely because Meshell is "on sum otha s**t" -- all across the board. She's chasing Miles, whereas Janet is still trying to stay relevant (and pander to) a TRL listenership.

(In no way am I trying to slight my girl, but the truth is truth.)

Meshell is a bassist, songwriter, producer, stylist, etc. Janet is a pop icon who largely depends on producers to cultivate her work. Both are talented, but without Jam & Lewis (or some other studio whiz) folks like Janet ain't puttin' out s**t. But, with Meshell, that woman can fully orchestrate and produce her own material via her instruments, her own creative wherewithal and translate that energy in the studio. She can actually craft the song (and the *music*) as she goes along in the booth depending on the way she and her band jam that day. It's more organic and artistic in ways that a producer-driven pop star can't match. Today's pop artists like Janet (and others) simply aren't operating in that same capacity.

Go to a Meshell show and see the way she and her band operate. It's on something wholly different.

Twink, you compared Bitter to TVR. namepeace, you paralleled Cookie to TVR. Now I'll say this... it's wildly unorthodox of me to do this, but 'tis the nature of this thread.

Cookie correlated with Rhythm Nation 1814 in its sociopolitical bent.

Comfort Woman correlated with janet. in its gushes on love with a hint of social awareness ("Fellowship" to "New Agenda (w/Chuck D)").

Peace Beyond Passion correlated with The Velvet Rope in its examinations of self-worth and one song each dealing with homophobia ("Leviticus: F*gg*t" to "Free Xone").

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[Edited 6/21/05 12:03pm]

JANFAN4L said:

Excellent, excellent points.

The comparison is fundamentally unfair, you're right.

I've seen both artists in concert. Janet gives you a great show.

Me'Shell takes your butt to CHURCH.

namepeace said:

H*LL *!

I saw Meshell twice and both times it was like entering another world. So atmospheric. Once summer '02 at the Roxy in West Hollywood and later that year during the "Hot Night Tour" at St. Andrews in Detroit.

You got to give it to her musicians. Allen Cato killed the guitars. Michael Cain was going off with that keyboard*! Gotdamm*!!! I remember during the encore, Cain slayed the s**t out of a 10-minute solo during "Pocketbook." K'Alyn worked it and so did David Dyson on bass.

It's just amazing *hearing* Meshell live. Often times, it's better than the studio records because it's more rich and you can feel the life of the song. It's like the song is a living, breathing thing when you step into a Meshell concert.

minneapolisgenius said:

Well let me infinity-sign on this

This is a very odd comparrison IMO. Different leagues.....

namepeace said:

Correction!

While I do like some of Janet Jacksons work, she has not come a fraction of a percent even remotely close to inspiring me the way Me'Shell does. Different strokes I suppose.

I love Janet, but Me'Shell rules. The "Velvet Rope" CD was cool, but the "P.B.P" CD is STILL played in heavy rotation with me. That CD got me thru a lot..It's also a great CD to make love to. I'm sure someone here can testify with me on that.

The thing that I don't understand about the org is, when someone posts an opinion seeking others, they immediate thing that most do is cut the poster down? I don't understand that. I mean, with this post you do have 2 artists of very different "levels". I will agree that Me'Shell has the lyrical ability to outdo most of her peers, but I also must say that Janet has commercial appeal and that Velvet Rope was also drawn from a deep dark place and helped many through times that they may not have gotten out of alive. When one person presents a question or opinion, the best way to handle it is to post what you feel without trying to cut the other down. That tends to be the way with the org though. Plauralism should be tried here. If you don't agree with someone's train of thought or opinion, try to find an adult way to disagree, don't just jump down someones throat. Thats just not cool.

SPYZFAN1 said:

To be honest: I like some Janet songs too, but I don't think there is a comparison between these artists. And yes, PBP is a great CD to make love too!

It's not who's better post, I was just pointing out the posibility these ladies were inspired by each other, that's all! I still stand by statement that I think Janet was inspired by Me'Shell's "meloncoly" approach to some songs for the VELVET ROPE

sdekm1 said: