I was watching Nightline with Ted Koppel last night after the game and the entire show was about Michael Jackson. It was basicly a "kick Michael while he's down fest" and I sarted wondering how did it all come to this? From the perspective of the media, Michael Jackson went from being a global icon to the scum of the earth. When did this happen? Can someone pin point a year or event that this started to happen? Can we have a discussion about the different elements that have brought MJ to where he is today? When did it become en vougue to chew Michael up and spit him out? This has been going on way before the first molestation allegation IMO.

Lets talk.
[Edited 6/10/05 12:35pm]

it would be very VERY easy for me to say in 85 after he bout the beatles music and had the biggest selling albums {thats when all the wierd wacko jacko thang started}

but silly stories started going around about him since he was 19 {it stopped by off the wall but then started again in 84}

but i dunno, he still was pretty huge up till 199_ { the specific year is pretty vague but i will say 2002 it went wrong somewhere as far as his image was concerned.}

I think it's time to form an MJ.org site.

I think it's different for everyone but it did seem gradual. I saw a big turnaround when Bad came out. I was surprised. But he still had a huge steady base of love. I think the big shift came in terms of dislike for ther peson and not just the music after the first allegations. The true fans seem to become more loyal but the fence straddlers or common folks were really turned off.

In the 80s when he had a birthday party in New York at the Museum of Natural History I thought 'Wow, you can't get much bigger than that.' His family, celebrities, Walter Yetnikoff, everybody was there. It seemed like such a great time.
[Edited 6/10/05 10:00am]

I'm not sure when, but mainly because people wanted to see the fall of the biggest star of all times.

Just look at how much we enjoy trashing celebrities when they're down. Check out the current Whitney thread for example

I think that when someone or something is extremely popular, there is a certain type of person that finds enormous pleasure in seeing that popularity die. They come off more clever and edgy when they can piss on someone else's accomplishments. Sorta like these album critics that we read in Rolling Stone. They think they are so clever after they write a scathing review of a record that many people may like. Its the same sorta thing with MJ, I think.

I remember being about 5 years old (1984), when Thriller had sold over 40 million copies. People were calling him a fag and making all sorts of horrible jokes about his voice, his hair on fire, and etc. People got a tremendous amount of pleasure by demeaning him as much as possible even though he was the most popular thing going.

I think this situation compounds itself when this superstar is a black man. We have to accept that many people never felt comfortable with a black man being the subject of the world's affections. Does anyone disagree with this statement? It seems as though when MJ started to break records held by the Beattles and Elvis, thats when the hate started.

I think there's a lot of truth in that. Plus the world realized that he was more than just a singer. He was a businessman and he was starting to move and shake and not just on stage. Plus not being able to solely categorize him turned people off. We like to label people--put them in a box that we can understand. That which we don't understand we tend to destroy.

There does seem to be a twisted pleasure in watching someone fall from grace. Now we even make television shows about it. The world supposedly loves a comeback and aside from the things he's done to thwart that possibility himself, Michael seems to be the exception.

I use the word 'we' in general terms i.e., society, world, culture... I personally do not feel this way.
[Edited 6/10/05 10:17am]

I think the period when Bad came out (1987) was another wave. He had been in the tabloids alot by then. The Elephant Man bones thing, the oxygen chamber thing, etc. People started thinking he was a nut then but he didnt do much to change the perception that people had of him either.


His worse move in his career was to let the "Michael Jackson Circus" outshadow his music and performing. He hasnt been good at manipulating the media for ages. The media has manipulated him.

dreamfactory313 said:

screw the haters.

The New York Daily Post's front page summed it all up for me yesterday. The Headline under a headshot of MJ ran 'SWEAT, FREAK'. Completely and utterly contemptable journalism.

Maybe i'm being overly sensitive, but that's really not fair is it?

Marrk said:

Thats exactly why I started this thread! Thats the way our mainstream journalists are reporting on MJ. I agree with what Jermaine Jackson said last year. He said: "This is a modern day lynching!" The sad part about it is that its been going on for over 20 years.

When the first accusations came out, I felt Michael was weird but I didn't believe for two seconds that he was capable of that. When he didn't change his behaviors and the next round came about, he lost all support I felt for him back then. I, for one, do not like to see the downfall of celebrities and think there are many more important things going on the world that celebrity gossip. I don't hate him, I just don't feel sorry for him.

I remember watching Geraldo's talk show in 1995. The whole show was about his History album, his marriage to Lisa Marie and the molestation allegations that by then had been settled out of court. I will never forget this show because of what people were saying on it. He had a panel of gossip columnists and they were all saying your typical trash MJ stuff (except for Flo Anthony). I remember them showing a clip of the "Scream" video and Geraldo said that he thught the song was rubbish and unlistenable and he said that the video was awful and shouldnt have costed as much as it did. They said MJ was washed up and stale and the cd was going to flop. All this and the cd hadnt even come out yet. I have watched this agressive campaign to destroy Michael's career for a long time now. Its running in overdrive now.

dreamfactory313 said:

What the fuck???? Like Geraldo can put a decent record together!!!!Oh .. oh man. I never thought it was that bad his anger torwards him.
When I put HIStory on at work my people be jammin! Especially on Scream. We always end the conversations off about Michael Jackson on a positive note.

I have seen people diss Michael since BAD. That's when I started seeing the "Michaels melting face" on the paper with photoshop.

Then "Hyperberic Chmaber" which was rumored 2 be Michael's own media scam.

Then, "Michael sleeps in a Zoo"

Then Michael is an alien.

fuck the haters. so much jealousy in this world. the more people that love you, the more people are gonna hate you.

Geraldo is a media whore oppurtunist. I still cant believe that MJ agreed to do an interview with him earlier this year. I was shocked.

I was listening to a local radio talk show last weekened and they were taking callers. One person called (a black woman) in to complain about Michael's eccentricities. She said that Michael grew up as a handsome black man and now hes a white woman. She talked about his cosmetic surgery and his white skin. She screamed: "Why would he have all of that plastic surgery?"

and the co-host of the show said: "Do you know how many people in Hollywood have plastic surgery on their faces?"

and the caller said: "Yeah, but thats OUR face!"

It was striking to me that she would say that. It was very telling. This whole thing is bigger than just Michael Jackson. Its about a legacy. A legacy in African-American history and many blacks feel subconciously hurt by Michael's seemingly ambandonment of black culture. Michael is getting heat from everybody, icluding blacks. Blacks have had a psychological stake in the success of black celebrities for a long time and I think blacks feel betrayed.

Militant said:

See, this part I don't agree with. Why do people equate disliking someone with being jealous of them? You could not pay me to be MJ right now.

PurpleKnight said:

When was that? I think people have been hating MJ since he had brown skin. Its just gotten worse over the years.
[Edited 6/10/05 11:24am]

Damn, DreamFactory. You don't need us on this thread. You just about said it all.

I feel bad for Michael, guilty or not, and I'd never wish him (or anybody else for that matter) any harm. All we can do is pray for him and those persecuting him. They're all going to need it.

Yawn...so many tired old excuses, knee-jerk reactions, and cliches on this thread...

In response to the original question, it was a gradual process brought on by his behavior and appearance changes. The '93 allegations were a watershed event, but he was already the butt of plenty of jokes then (Bubbles, etc.). As some have put it, he had the "eccentric artist" thing going strong: people overlooked a lot when he was doing records, videos, and shows that they loved, but when his work seemed to become less interesting, the behavior/appearance became his most notable feature and he really became a target for criticism and mockery. JMHO.

CandaceS said:

I think thats true in a nutshell, but I think its a shade deeper than that. my
[Edited 6/10/05 11:41am]

CandaceS said:

We live in a world now where people even joke about folks that are maimed, disfigured or crippled in accidents, let alone folks that have altered themselves on purpose. Mike never had a chance really.

dreamfactory313 said:

Stop using the race card...

Mike has definitely lost all his credibility as a black man now...

If he was still black, you would have could use the race card...

I started to hate Mike when he started to transform himself to a white woman...
It was during the Bad era...

PurpleKnight said:

Here is my only question in regards to the original post.

Why do you care?

There are so many more important issues to spend time thinking about, why do you care what people think of a rich, successful, international artist that now finds himself in a legal battle?

How about single mothers and kids in Detroit that need food, education and real help with anything. Prayers, thoughts or anything else you can give them are better than the time spent concerning yourself with MJ.

Not trying to be offensive, just offering a different perspective.

PurpleKnight said:

Apologetic? how? i was referring to his surgery before any allegations had occured. you know, as in the title of the thread 'When did we start hating Michael Jackson?'. I think a lot of folks see that as the starting point for the bile and venom.

I see you're intent on discussing his present situation though. I'm not.

Slave2daGroove said:

Thanks for noting this! I swear, the idiot MJ fans camped outside the fucking courthouse need to be provided with a social cause to work on. They have such unflinching determination, they might actually accomplish something worthwhile.

krayzie said:

Im not using any race card. PurpleKinght mentioned that people started hated him when his appearance changed. All I said is that people were hating him when he was dark skinned, before the drastic change in appearance. Thats a fact from as far as I can see.

Marrk said:

You made it sound with your original comment like MJ simply never had a chance, no matter what he did cause he's in world as cruel as this one.

I still say that's bullshit. It's MJ's fault, plain and simple.