namepeace said:

A very valid point.

oh my god...the waiting is driving me crazy. Every time I pass the tv I quickly put on cnn or bbc to see if the jury has reached a verdict.

Can't imagine what it must be like for Mike.

btw: IF mike's found guilty, can he appeal or is this decision final?

grtz
Kev1n

adoreme said:

This is all sadly true.

When the first allegations broke in the 90s, I use to have a nervous stomach the first few weeks. I got over it but I heard of and knew many people who became physically ill, depressed and one or two even contemplated suicide. And he wasn't even arrested. I can't imagine what fans are going through now but I have to say I am glad I'm not emotionally there anymore. It's upsetting enough but if I were at the height of my fandom... I don't feel a fraction of what I felt back then, thank goodness.
[Edited 6/6/05 13:30pm]

Its impossible for him to be found guilty unless there is a massive government conspiracy and the jury have been paid off.

Im amazed some of you havent been convinced of his innocence. Have u actually read the transcripts of what has transpired in the court room. The prosecution was ridiculous, most of their witnesses ended up defending michael jackson, there was no physical evidence, and no witnesses, according to forensics the boy was never in mj's room.

Anyone who still believes that he is guilty is either completely dumb or just unwilling to listen to the truth. That is what it comes down to, if you dont believe he is innocent by taking all the information on board, and i mean everything, not just the tabloid reports, then u r seriously a lost cause!

namepeace said:

... I agree to disagree on your comment

i find it very hard to compare 13 years of improper upbringing
to nearly 50 years of pure dementia!

You are correct the young man needs to be cut a break.
but your argument is equally fallable as any MJ supporters argument about Jackson's Upbringing

Jackson lives in a bubble, he refuses contact with the real world
This boy has been with the real world everyday of his life,
He's a victim as well of poor parenting, but 13 is equally not the victimizing age...
especially in the year 2005

These children know right from wrong
and everything he has said has been premeditated
thats assuming Jackson is innocent
it is equally his fault as his mothers

On the other hand,
Jackson most likely doesn't know whats going on
and is a more severe case of dementia
his whole world has been crashing down on him
and i believe he's finally encoutering the real world
and its hit him hard
with law suit after law suit

Jackson does not know the meaning, of keep your friends close, and keep your enemies closer
he's too trustworthy,
and he is easily influenced by the people around him
This man could plead insanity and most likely get it
all you have to do is take a hard look at whats going on in his inner circle...

If he survives this,
He will probably be more damaged than he already is...

the two sittuations and their variables make it unclear
but i do agree with the basic reason of what your saying

cool post1

adoreme said:

I'm a big MJ fan myself, but never in a fanatic way...I defend him simpley because I can't see any evidence that eliminates all doubt, therefor if I was in the jury i'd say not guilty...

Anyways, if he should be found guilty...I can safely say it'll hit me pretty hard, (also because I'll still be doubting his guilt)...but it's not like my entire belief-system is going to crash or anything. My world won't stop turning,...I just wonder how I'll react to knowing someone I looked up to a lot could be evil.
[Edited 6/6/05 13:38pm]

FunkyBrotha said:

too bad the media doesn't send out that image...most people won't have a clue what actually happened in that court. they made up their minds a long time ago and the fact that he's in court, no matter what the outcome, is all the 'proof' they need.

I don't consider myself and MJ fan nowadays, though I still like the music, but I used to be. Therefore alone, it would really hit me. Also, I do believe he is innocent. And I can imagine that he thinks "why me of all people?' at the moment.
As I said, I believe he is innocent and I think he will really have major mental problems, even if not found guilty. I know, I'd have. I could understand if he never recorded a single note again, leaving it all behind.

FunkyBrotha said:

Actually, I agree with you, but of course until they're done, there's some doubt left. And since it's an understatement to say that they're making an important decision, it's really frustrating to wait.

kev1n said:

So you know more about what happened in that court room than me.... ? How is that going to happen?

FunkyBrotha said:

For he's a jolly good fellow, for he's a jolly good fellow, For he's a jolly good
fellow, which nobody can deny

adoreme said:

I've just read whatever transcripts, etc came out...internet is a bless i'll say. Just the fact that there was no 'smoking gun', just a lot of could have's, might have's...should be enough. as a bonus we get witnesses who cotradict themselves. testamonies that make no sence whatso-ever...the whole procecution was a complete mess.

Luv4oneanotha said:

To be sure, MJ has suffered from problems for far longer than this boy has (aside from the fact that the boy suffered from and apparently beat cancer).

Let's be clear. I am not making an argument on the mitigating circumstances for MJ. All I am saying is that many MJ supporters are quick to point to these many valid factors in MJ's life, and he's a middle-aged man. But they don't seem to have much sympathy for the boy's troubles.

And I would strongly disagree with your implication that the average teenager is more mature in 2005, and thus deserving of greater scrutiny. Hell, whose fault is it that he may have done some horrible things in his life? To some extent, him, sure. But bad parenting may have something to do with it too, don'tcha think?

He's had his childhood taken away from him, just like MJ. But somehow The Thriller gets more sympathy for his lost childhood.

By the way, even if MJ DIDN'T molest him, he still contributed to the boy's problems, wouldn't you agree?

You make some good points about MJ and his troubles, but

1) he's had friends and family warn him about his lifestyle. Quincy did, and I'd bet my Off The Wall Album Johnnie Cochran and others told him as well.

2) he has had the means to get help. and he hasn't. if the accused can be criticized for his issues, then MJ deserves even more criticism because of that.

And who's to say the boy is lying? He may be a grifter-in-training but that only means he's likely to lie. He could have been a hustler and still gotten abused!

No one can know the truth. That may mean reasonable doubt, and therefore an acquittal, but that sure ain't innocence.

I don't believe he will be found guilty on all counts but I think on some of them he will, which is frightening for him. But I can't feel totally sorry for him, back in '93 he was caught unaware, maybe, but now he didn't follow common sense advice "leave other people's children alone". One can never cuddle a rattlesnake, and young rattlesnakes are the most lethal. If he avoids prison I hope he'll take more precautious steps in his life, and realize he's only human, just like everyone else, and needs to follow some 'normal' standards of decorum.

namepeace said:

ah but it is!...that's the beauty of our justice system...innocent till proven guilty, and reasonable doubt means no proof to find him guilty, thus innocent.

from cnn.com

kev1n said:

As have I.

And I don't believe that the defence was so convincing either. They finished early, didn't deliver what they promised and failed to respond to the final video of the accuser, which by all accounts was moving and disturbing.

adoreme said:

true, but the fact that the procecution didn't have anything to offer but a story by a 'kid', hardly backed by any evidence, weighs more in my mind. I don't see any proof of mike's guilt. And that's what the procecution needed to deliver.

kev1n said:

There's a difference between "innocent" in the eyes of a jury and "innocent" in the eyes of the Maker. You are right as to the former, but I'm talking about the latter.

dag said:

I don't defend MJ...

I said I'm not very convinced by the defense, but I'm (by far) less convinced by the whole procecution ...

Too many incoherences, bad witnesses and bad testamonies by the accuser...

adoreme said:

Burden of proof is on the state
Defense really didn't have to much, just clean up MJ's image
i didn't understand that until a colleague of mines pointed that out
and the reason they didn't respond to the video was because it wasn't very convincing...

namepeace said:

I totally understand the several possibilities but im simply saying
that you can't put the blame purely on Jackson simply because he's an aged man
we ALL know he has some serious problems & issues to attend to,
which is no excuse, but still quite visible...

But i know were purely shooting the breeze,
but i just can't agree that this boy has had his childhood taken away from him in ANY way, perhaps if he was younger i could bare more sympathy,
But im sorry,
13 year olds are not as ld fashion as you make them out to be
they are quite mature...
and from the wittnesses description of the boy
he was neither insecure nor confused...
he was head strong
troublesome
and estremely pompous
and this was the description the prosecution wittnesses gave

But we shall give him a break as you say,
lets say for description reasonss, MJ is in fact guilty
What would be the reaction of a 13 year old boy who has been molested?
Stern? Meek?

Hell i know of 16 year olds who couldn't look their accuser in the eye...
we had a case in NY a year ago, about a highschool teacher who sodomized his male students
they were terrified of him...

beside the subject

you know what forget it, im just rambling
im starting not to care about this trial...

Luv4oneanotha said:

lilgish said:

laugh all you wan't, it was bound to come sooner or later...

It's a sad day, when i just don't give a damn anymore



I think this is my last post, all of a sudden im deppressed

peace

Luv4oneanotha said:

Stay Strong, the fans need you

Come on new thread.

thesexofit said:

you just wanna be first

lilgish said:

They say the first time is the best. I want the feeling like the first time again.

Luv4oneanotha said:

Of course it's true that MJ might have been set up. But that wasn't my original point. My point was the perspective of many MJ supporters, how they seem to give more understanding to MJ as a middle-aged man, but they're harder on the accuser, a teenager.