I don't how many times I dreamt tonight about a verdict being announced on TV. Crazy.

sinisterpentatonic said:

I am spreading my wings ~flap~ get that stick out of my nose

jn2 said:

What made you change your mind?

The trial I know that someone can be a victim and a bastard at the same time,but the predators here are the Arvizo ( they make me think of the Margareth's family in the million dollar baby movie), not MJ.

Janet and Randy

Mike, Janet and La Toya







for MIke

what I want to know is what are michaels options legally should he be found innocent. If he's found not guilty, can he bring charges against his accusers. if they indeed made up the whole thing to get mike's money...that's a pretty serious crime to I'd think. Mike should get them in court for that, just to make the point that he's not free game for every-one that can dish up a good story. If mike's innocent...that mother belongs in jail !

Nice too see the family together too bad it's over this. The Jackson sisters are looking good. Everyone is united and Michael is looking hella sad in the background. Maybe he's finally realizing the trickle down effect this has had on everyone.

Day 65: Closing Arguments:


Created: Thursday, 02 June 2005


Accuser's Family: "Con Artists, Actors & Liars"

Thursday, June 2, 2005
On day 65 defense attorney Thomas Mesereau countered the prosecution’s closing arguments stating that the accuser's family consisted of "con artists, actors and liars." He said prosecutors revealed the weakness of their case by attacking him and Mr. Jackson’s career during their closing argument.

"Whenever a prosecutor does that, you know they're in trouble," Mr. Mesereau told the panel, which is expected to get the case Friday. "This is not a popularity contest between lawyers."

Mr. Mesereau was to conclude Friday and the prosecution was to deliver a rebuttal before the case goes to the jury. Mr. Jackson, said "I'm OK" as he left court Thursday.

Prosecutors, Mr. Mesereau said, engaged in a "nasty attempt, a barbaric attempt" to attack Mr. Jackson personally by bringing up his financial problems, collection of adult magazines and what they called, a "sagging music career."

Mr. Mesereau also showed charts suggesting it was ridiculous to believe that during a time when Mr. Jackson was under international scrutiny he would choose to commit a sex crime.

Defense lawyer Thomas Mesereau urged jurors to acquit, saying prosceutors had not proved their case that he said was built on "lies, innuendo and exaggeration."

Mr. Mesereau hit back hard in his closing arguments that are expected to run into Friday morning, telling jurors the prosecution case was "absurd" and based on lies.

"This is a family where children have been taught to lie. This is a family where children have been taught to con," he said, adding that the accuser's mother had a track record of manipulating celebrities and misfortunes for money.

Mr. Mesereau stressed that the only witnesses to the alleged molestation was the boy's then 12-year-old brother and that the key witness to an alleged plot by Mr. Jackson to kidnap the family was the mother.

There is "no forensic evidence, no DNA, no hairs, no fibers, no witness to any of this," he said. "There is no way in the world you can find (the accuser's family) trustworthy beyond reasonable doubt."

“Facts are the facts are the facts are the facts.” Mr. Mesereau explained to the jury.

He said the prosecution wanted jurors to believe "it was all Michael Jackson taking these innocent little lambs and corrupting their lives. It's all baloney," he said.

He appealed to jurors to dismiss the case. "If you have the slightest doubt, and it's a reasonable one, then Mr. Jackson must go home and he must be free," he said.

Mr. Mesereau conceded that Mr. Jackson was "different" and "offbeat," but said he was not a criminal and that Mr. Jackson had long been the target of extortion plots.

"He has the reputation for being a very child-like person, very naive, idealistic, a musical genius, a person that likes to sit in trees and compose," Mr. Mesereau said, urging jurors to see him through a "human lens."

"The issue in this case is the life, the reputation, the future of Michael Jackson," the lawyer pleaded.

The prosecutor showed again heterosexual adult material from Mr. Jackson's collection of magazines and said jurors should understand these were part of the "grooming process" intended to get boys aroused.

Mr. Mesereau countered, "Yes. He (Mr. Jackson) is a human being. They found a lot of girlie magazines. Did he want the world to know that? No."

Mr. Mesereau responded that Mr. Jackson wasn't charged with possessing illegal pornography because everything in his home was legal, that no child pornography was found in his home or computers, and that prosecutors used the adult magazines just to make Mr. Jackson look bad.

"They have dirtied him up because he's human. But they haven't proven their case because they can't," he said. Mr. Mesereau suggested that this ‘dirtying’ tactic of the prosecution was used to make it easier for the jury to convict him.

Mr. Mesereau also said the boy was unemotional as he described the alleged molestation in the video and in testimony and challenged the jury to closely examine his demeanor. "You saw no emotion whatsoever when he spoke about allegedly being molested. When did you see him really get angry? When he talked about Michael Jackson abandoning his family," Mr. Mesereau said.

Mr. Mesereau also pointed out that when the accuser was asked by the investigator in the video to name some things that he would think of as “wrong”, the accuser responded with; staying up late, fighting, breaking things and killing someone. Mr. Mesereau pointed out that unlike most children, he did not even mention lying, cheating or stealing.

In the prosecution’s closing argument, Senior Deputy District attorney Ron Zonen berated Mr. Jackson and his attorneys, stood by the testimony of the accuser's mother, and used charts and graphics to show what he said was a pattern of criminal behavior.

Zonen argued for nearly two hours before he even brought up child molestation, focusing first on a complicated conspiracy alleging Mr. Jackson sought to hold the accuser's family against their will.

Mr. Mesereau said the real issue was "whether the accuser's family was credible," and he tore into the prosecutor's claim the boy's mother wasn't out for money, repeatedly returning to the refrain, "Was she asking for money?"

"When she filed for emergency welfare 10 days after getting her (settlement), was she asking for money?" Mr. Mesereau asked. "If you do not believe (the family) beyond a reasonable doubt, Mr. Jackson must be acquitted. That's the law."

The prosecutor acknowledged she fraudulently applied for welfare after receiving a large settlement in a lawsuit, but asserted that was the only thing she had been proven to have done wrong in her life.

And Zonen ridiculed the idea the boy's mother could have made up the entire story and prompted her children to lie in order to get wealthy at a future time.

"The suggestion this was all made up is nonsense," he said. "It's unmitigated rubbish."

Zonen depicted Neverland, Mr. Jackson's fantasy estate and amusement park, as a place with no rules, no schooling and no discipline for children who stayed there.

"They rode rides, went to the zoo, ate whatever they wanted candy, ice cream, soda pop. There was only fun. ... And at night they entered into the world of the forbidden. Michael Jackson's room was a veritable fortress with locks and codes which the boys were given ... They learned about sexuality from someone only too willing to be their teacher."

On the contrary, Mr. Mesereau highlighted the testimonies of Neverland employees that caught the accuser and his brother with adult magazines and stealing alcohol when Mr. Jackson was no where around. Mr. Mesereau showed that the accuser is hardly the naïve youngster the prosecution presents, focusing on their long history of lawsuits where the children were coached and encouraged to lie for financial gain.

Zonen spent much of his argument attacking Mr. Jackson's current and former lawyers.

He accused Mr. Mesereau of promising things in his opening statement that he could not produce, including mentioning celebrities who would testify who never appeared.

Zonen was defensive in talking about the boy's mother, one of the most erratic witnesses of the trial.

"(She) never asked for one penny from Michael Jackson," he said. "She never desired anything from him and she doesn't today."

"There is no way in the world you can find the (accuser and his family) are trustworthy beyond a reasonable doubt." If that is the case, Mr. Mesereau said, "Mr. Jackson must be acquitted under our legal system."

Mr. Jackson, who did not take the witness stand during the four-month trial sat unmoved during Zonen's closing arguments. When he arrived at the courthouse with his parents and three brothers, a throng of about 200 supporters shouted "Fight Michael, Fight."

Mr. Jackson's lawyer reminded the jury that the molestation case against Mr. Jackson involved only one alleged victim.

He scorned testimony in the trial from other young friends of Mr. Jackson. "They (the prosecution) brought in alleged victims from the '90s because they are desperate," he said.

Mr. Mesereau said it was absurd to suggest that Mr. Jackson would have molested his accuser in the intense period of media scrutiny after the 2003 broadcast of a documentary in which Mr. Jackson defended his practice of sharing his bed with boys.

Mr. Jackson has denied four counts of molesting the boy, then 13, plying him with alcohol, and conspiring to commit child abduction, false imprisonment and extortion. Mr. Jackson faces more than two decades in prison if convicted on all charges.

The case is expected to go to the jury on Friday.

Source: MJJsource / AP / Reuters




I doubt MIke would do that. He´s too nice for that. And after all of this shit I think the last thing he would wanna do is to fight in court again. But those ppl do deserve that.

One thing that really sticks in my mind is the boy said his grandmother told him that masturbation was a part of life. This was before Michael.

In the interview he said he had never even heard of masturbation.

And, wasn't it the nephew of Michael that saw him and his brother doing so?

This kid is to quick to have even allowed Michael to touch him in that way.

So many incosistancies.. I can only hope that the jury sees this for what it is.

A person who is sexually abused, is so frightened to face their accuser. He was to non-chalant.. I know, I have been through this.

sag10 said:

Sag, all due respect . . .

Think about what you wrote just then.

Gavin is a child.

MJ is an adult.

Gavin's consent don't mean a damn thing. If what you say here actually happened, MJ should get the book thrown at him.

MJ's supporters judge Gavin as if he's the adult and MJ as if he's the child.

It's the other way around.

in a state where OJ and Robert Blake got off scott free with a ton of forensic evidence on them.....

in a state where a bunch of cops can be acquitted for clubbing a man like a baby seal AND it's on video tape....

nothing is guaranteed when it comes to the jury...

Apparently the judge didn't allow an extension on friday, but the jury asked for it. I guess there will be a verdict on monday or tuesday.



Well, all these trials are different. Don't generalize. If OJ were tried in Santa Barbara he would be toast by now.

BlueNote

Gavin seems to bright a young man to be able to be coerced into drinking alcohol. That along with the conspiracy charges seem so ridiculous that it blows my mind that charges like those could have even been brought.

The accuser is lying.

Mike doesnt look well.

dreamfactory313 said:

you don't have to coerce a kid to drink,
maybe a 7 or 9 year old?
but a 13 year old?

hehe
you know he's lying lol

c'mon

dreamfactory313 said:

you can't expect him to look better.
this was exactly what he tried to avoid in 1993

The U.S. Justice System is never absolute.

250 cases has been overturned based on new evidence
hundreds of men and women set free, cause they were really innocent

i'd be scared too.

Your life is in the hands of total strangers you don't know.


this is END GAME

It no longer matter what the media thinks.
this is it.

true.

oooooh, why Mike? why Mike?

(just ignore me guys, I am starting to get emotional....)

namepeace said:

Mmhh, Gavin isn't a kid... He's a teenager...

Once again I don't believe the charges against Michael Jackson...

Jun 5, 11:01 PM (ET)
By TIM MOLLOY

(AP) SOLVANG, Calif. (AP) - Michael Jackson was taken to an emergency room Sunday for treatment of a back problem that has plagued him throughout his molestation trial, a spokeswoman said.

Jackson, accompanied by a bodyguard, arrived at the Santa Ynez Valley Cottage Hospital about five miles from his Neverland ranch at about 2:30 p.m., spokeswoman Raymone K. Bain said.

"Mr. Jackson's back has spurred up on him again," Bain said. "It's pretty serious. It was serious enough for him to come over here."

Bain said stress contributed to the entertainer's back problem.

"He's under a tremendous amount of stress right now," she said at an impromptu news conference outside the hospital. "Other than his back, he is doing fine."

It was unclear late Sunday evening whether Jackson had been admitted to the hospital. Bain had offered no further updates since mid-afternoon.

Jackson's health has been an issue throughout the trial. The 46-year-old pop star appeared gaunt in recent days, and officials at the hospital disclosed Friday that he had visited the emergency room overnight Thursday. They would not discuss the reason for that visit, citing privacy concerns.

Prior to last week, Jackson's case was interrupted twice by hospital visits, once for treatment of flu symptoms. He first reported a back problem in early March, when he went to an emergency room on one of the days his accuser took the stand. Jackson arrived late, dressed in pajama bottoms, after the judge ordered him to come to court.

The singer is charged with molesting a 13-year-old boy in February or March 2003. He is also accused of plying him with wine and conspiring to hold his family captive.

The jury received Jackson's case Friday afternoon and deliberated for about two hours before adjourning for the weekend. They will resume discussions Monday. Bain said Jackson planned to return to his family at Neverland when he is released from the hospital to wait for the verdict.

"His mother is a rock of Gibraltar. So is his father," she said.

Also Sunday, the Rev. Jesse Jackson said in an interview that he has arrived in the area to meet with Jackson.

"I talk to him almost every day, and we have prayer," he said. "We are going to be in prayer as we watch and wait."

http://apnews.myway.com//...RP3G0.html

Krayzie defending MIke?? What happened, Krayzie?

I really don't know what to think. I'm not really sure if he is guilty or not - neither the prosecution or defense was particularly compelling. I think the only people that will truely know what happened is Michael and Gavin.

If Michael is innocent then he needs to learn to protect himself from this type of thing happening again!!!

dreamfactory313 said:

hmmmm... interesting quote....
[Edited 6/6/05 3:59am]

Delayed Court Doc Reveals Startling Info

In a court document not released until June 2 2005, but stamped April 20 2005, reveals starting information about the accuser's sister, Davellin Arvizo. I guess this doc just so happened to get delayed……..for months by the court…..until after the trial was over.

The defense motion is in relation to Manuel Ramirez, who was Davellin Arvizo's boyfriend at the time in the summer of 2003, and Carol Lemere.

According to the court doc, Arvizo moved into Ramirez's house and had a shared bank account with him in the summer of 2003; right around the time they started making allegations against Jackson.

The defense wanted Ramirez to testify concerning vital information he had about the Arvizo family.

Also according to the doc, Davellin Arvizo told Carol Lemere some very interesting and damaging things about Janet Arvizo. Excerpt from the court doc:


Davellin told Ms. Lemere that: (1) Janet Arvizo physically abused the Arvizo children; (2) Janet Arvizo taught the Arvizo children to shoplift and this is what took place during the J.C. Penney incident; and (3) she did not get along with her mother. (An interview of Carol Lemere by defense investigator, Scott Ross, is attached as Exhibit A.)

The defense investigation has demonstrated that Davellin Arvizo made exculpatory statements to Angel Vivanco, a Neverland employee with whom Davellin maintained a relationship with during and after her time at Neverland.

This relationship occurred during February through April of 2003, just prior to her relationship with Mr. Ramirez.

Davellin told Mr. Vivanco that: (1) she did not get along with her mother; and (2) her mother was planning "something big" with regard to Mr. Jackson and that she did not wish to participate in these plans.

We have reason to believe that Davellin Arvizo made similar exculpatory statements to Manuel Ramirez.

We have further reason to believe that Davellin Arvizo moved out of her mother's residence, and into Mr. Ramirez's home, due to her initial unwillingness to participate in her mother's plan to make false allegations against Mr. Jackson. (pg 2-3)

krayzie said:

In the eyes of the law, krayzie, Gavin is a child. As a practical matter, he's a teenager but he's still a kid, still not an adult.

Why in the hell do you think they call this a child molestation case?

Come on, man.

The point stands.

It's amazing how quiet it gets in here while we all await a verdict...

namepeace said:

Ok I agree with on this point..

xpsiter said:

I really hope it's over soon. Although, on TV someone said that it's better for Jackson if it takes longer. Not sure about that, though. As far as I'm concerned, they could have ended this on Friday.

krayzie said:

I gotcha.

Forgive me . . . I'm just frustrated with this pattern that has popped up among some of MJ's supporters in general.

When it comes to the teenaged accuser's alleged manipulation and lying, some people can't cut him a break for his dysfunctional upbringing.

But when it comes to the, let's say, "questionable" habits of the accused, who is a man nearing 50, every excuse is made about his dysfunctional upbringing.

I've just been watching a BBC documentary here in the UK and it has made me realise all over again how much this is going to affect some people on here.

As I have said many many times before, I was a big MJ fan as a kid. My opinion has changed radically over the many years... particularly the last ten and I have my own views about how I think justice should be served having kept up with the case as best I can. I am not convinced of his innocence. I do sometimes become frustrated with the endless defence of of him from fans, but....

I still understand how his fans must be feeling right now. I do hope that people on this board are gentle with those who are fans, if there is a guilty verdict. The fallout from this case is going to be massive for some people.

I hope you are all doing okay.