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PrintableNeoSoulScribe said: krayzie said: No, the reason why I critic you is the fact that you said "there are only 3 R&B musical geniuses RAy, Stevie and Prince"... And I totally disagree with that. And like I said before there are way more geniuses than Ray, Stevie and Prince : What about James Brown, Sly Stone, Marvin Gaye, Jimi Hendrix, Duke Ellington etc... Plus I NEVER said that you HAve to be handicaped to be be considered as genius, wtf you talkin about...lol But you got to admit that it's WAY more difficult to be a multi instrumentist when you have a BIG handicap like the blindness... And I think (it's only my point of view) that Stevie is a way better composer/songwritter than Prince... LOL! You're funny, bro. James and Marvin I wouldn't call 'geniuses'...and maybe not Sly. When I think of MUSICAL GENIUS I think of someone encompassing ALL of mucis: Singing, writing, composing, instrumentation, output. Ray, Prince, and Stevie are the only ones that fit that criteria. WTF you talkin, you embarassing yourself now... To you Sly isn't a genius ?? 
To you James isn't a genius??
To you MArvin isn't a genius ??
James CREATES what Prince did the MOST part of his life !!! I'm talkin about the FUNK, without JAMES there is NO PRINCE or the same Prince that we know, There are NO Cliton, NO Sly, NO Bootsy Collins, No ... I think that when a artist create a nex kind of music he deserve the title odf GENIUS ... WTF ?? First before saying stupid thing, try to really know what have accomplished all these artist in their careers... Maybe you don't like them, but you can't deny their influences and the fact that they CHANGE definitely the Music ?? And some of them more than Ray, Stevie or Prince ... I'm sorry but you sound very fool on this one...  | |
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krayzie said: NeoSoulScribe said: LOL! You're funny, bro. James and Marvin I wouldn't call 'geniuses'...and maybe not Sly. When I think of MUSICAL GENIUS I think of someone encompassing ALL of mucis: Singing, writing, composing, instrumentation, output. Ray, Prince, and Stevie are the only ones that fit that criteria. WTF you talkin, you embarassing yourself now... To you Sly isn't a genius ??
To you James isn't a genius??
To you MArvin isn't a genius ??
James CREATES what Prince did the MOST part of his life !!! I'm talkin about the FUNK, without JAMES there is NO PRINCE or the same Prince that we know, There are NO Cliton, NO Sly, NO Bootsy Collins, No ... I think that when a artist create a nex kind of music he deserve the title odf GENIUS ... WTF ?? First before saying stupid thing, try to really know what have accomplished all these artist in their careers... Maybe you don't like them, but you can't deny their influences and the fact that they CHANGE definitely the Music ?? And some of them more than Ray, Stevie or Prince ... I'm sorry but you sound very fool on this one... Those men are all geniuses to me. It seems that everyone has a different definition of "genius", and that is where the confusion arises. | |
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VoicesCarry said: NeoSoulScribe said: I'm not aware of Marvin's instrumental capabilities. If he has them, hip me to the scene. Marvin was initially hired as a session drummer for Motown, where he played on many early Smokey Robinson/Miracles and Stevie Wonder hits. He also played drums and the piano on many of his own recordings, and occasionally dabbled in keys, percussion and ARP synthesizer. He could also play guitar and organ, although he didn't often do so on tape. He was a writer, producer, arranger, and mixer. Oh, and by your criteria, Smokey Robinson is also a genius. So are many others. [Edited 6/5/05 10:23am] Ok, then he would therefore qualify as a genius, then. Thanx for the info. can you list Smokey's instrumental skills? And others you feel fit that critieria? Thanx. Silent shouts, I hope you hear
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krayzie said: NeoSoulScribe said: LOL! You're funny, bro. James and Marvin I wouldn't call 'geniuses'...and maybe not Sly. When I think of MUSICAL GENIUS I think of someone encompassing ALL of mucis: Singing, writing, composing, instrumentation, output. Ray, Prince, and Stevie are the only ones that fit that criteria. WTF you talkin, you embarassing yourself now... To you Sly isn't a genius ??
To you James isn't a genius??
To you MArvin isn't a genius ??
James CREATES what Prince did the MOST part of his life !!! I'm talkin about the FUNK, without JAMES there is NO PRINCE or the same Prince that we know, There are NO Cliton, NO Sly, NO Bootsy Collins, No ... I think that when a artist create a nex kind of music he deserve the title odf GENIUS ... WTF ?? First before saying stupid thing, try to really know what have accomplished all these artist in their careers... Maybe you don't like them, but you can't deny their influences and the fact that they CHANGE definitely the Music ?? And some of them more than Ray, Stevie or Prince ... I'm sorry but you sound very fool on this one... You're confusing someone's INFLUENCE as being the GENIUS to someone else. Can't. That makes no sense, lil fella. Read MY criteria over again. Then read again. Then read it one more time. Then respond accordingly. Silent shouts, I hope you hear
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NeoSoulScribe said: krayzie said: WTF you talkin, you embarassing yourself now... To you Sly isn't a genius ??
To you James isn't a genius??
To you MArvin isn't a genius ??
James CREATES what Prince did the MOST part of his life !!! I'm talkin about the FUNK, without JAMES there is NO PRINCE or the same Prince that we know, There are NO Cliton, NO Sly, NO Bootsy Collins, No ... I think that when a artist create a nex kind of music he deserve the title odf GENIUS ... WTF ?? First before saying stupid thing, try to really know what have accomplished all these artist in their careers... Maybe you don't like them, but you can't deny their influences and the fact that they CHANGE definitely the Music ?? And some of them more than Ray, Stevie or Prince ... I'm sorry but you sound very fool on this one... You're confusing someone's INFLUENCE as being the GENIUS to someone else. Can't. That makes no sense, lil fella. Read MY criteria over again. Then read again. Then read it one more time. Then respond accordingly. One of the dictionary definitions of genius is "a person who influences another for good or bad". So, actually, it does make sense. And, no offense, but since when did your criteria become the gold standard for judging geniuses? krayzie obviously has different criteria, so let him be. [Edited 6/5/05 10:32am] | |
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VoicesCarry said: NeoSoulScribe said: You're confusing someone's INFLUENCE as being the GENIUS to someone else. Can't. That makes no sense, lil fella. Read MY criteria over again. Then read again. Then read it one more time. Then respond accordingly. One of the dictionary definitions of genius is "a person who influences another for good or bad". So, actually, it does make sense. And, no offense, but since when did your criteria become the gold standard for judging geniuses? krayzie obviously has different criteria, so let him be. [Edited 6/5/05 10:32am] And I don't see genius that way. That's a more 'simple' definition of the word genius that I don't feel fits here. I like this definition much better and being more accurate: Extraordinary and native intellectual power especially as manifested in unusual capacity for creative activity of any kind. And I said in my original post that that was MY criteria, didn't I? I never said my criteria was what everyone had to follow. I voiced my opinion, Krayzie reacted, I responded, and here we are. [Edited 6/5/05 10:42am] Silent shouts, I hope you hear
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DorothyParkerWasCool said: krayzie said: First of all I never limited Geniuses to R2B, the subject of the topic is "AOL Black voices lists their 11 R&B "geniuses" of all time ".. So WHY YOU talkin about Lennon and Santana ?? Plus you said my point of view is subjective BUT WHAT ABOUT YOURS, WTF, you try to convince me that Prince is more eclectic and more versatile than Stevie, and so WHAT ?? ATWIAD is very eclectic, does it mean it's a great album ?? NO... Go listen to "Journey Through The Secret Life Of Plants," if you want something eclectic and different... I don't remember Prince doing an album as eclectic as that... You can't criticize me for being subjective when your arguments are "he showed that men, especially black men, did not have to be these ultramacho" or "he opened the minds of many by singing about a world without racial and or gender limitations" ... Prince isn't the first to be feminine, Little Richard was way before Prince the first black artist to be ultra feminine... SPlus ly was the first to have a multi racial band way before Prince and the first to open minds... I love Prince (this is why I'm an orger) but to me if you have to choose one genius in R&B, I'll say Stevie... Not because he's my favorite artist, but because I don't see another artist being as prodigious and powerfull as Stevie was... As a singer, as a multi isntrumentlist, as a composer/songwritter, as a humanist and a political Icon... An American Icon... If you disagree with me it's your choice and I respect that... [Edited 6/4/05 12:04pm] First let me comment on the part of your post I have in bold. Obviously I know Sly Stone was the first to have an interracial band if I referenced him in my initial post about R&B geniuses. Do you remember reading his name there in my comment about his impact being arguably the greatest on music in the 1970s? In reference to the Little Richard comment, Little Richard was feminine, but his lyrics did not challenge the rigid gender lines as explicitly as Prince's did. Give me examples of songs with lyrics as brilliant as If I Was Your Girlfriend and I will shut up. Furthermore, bell hooks, the noted author, college professor and social commentator has broken down Prince's importance to the mainstream and the role of black men in American society. I suggest you read it because maybe you will gain more appreciation for the steps Prince was taking and the ground he broke in the industry. Hell she even analyzes his lyrics in her English classes at The City College of New York, and asks her students what perspective he was writing from male/female or if the songs are genderless or combine traits of both genders. If thats not a social impact I don't know what is. But I digress. I will just say this and I'm not trying to be rude, but you do not comprehend what you read. I seriously think you took everything I said out of context even though I spelled it out for you. I never tried to convince you that Prince was more talented, I just gave the reasons why I like him better than Stevie. The comments about Lennon Santana etc, were in regards to the statement I made about the handful of genius musicians in all forms of music. (Hence the start of a new paragraph about the other musicians I named) I was not saying that u weren't looking outside the soul genre, I was just including a few names in relation to a point I was making. I think you really need to stop getting defensive when someone offers a differing opinion because I never attacked anything you were saying. I was just stating a preference just like you are. My point was that saying someone is more genius than another is flawed because genius is genius and what you favor is subjective. That was my point man, damn how hard is that to understand? It's really frustrating when people have no reading comprehension skills. Word of advice, when you read something, process it all the way through before you begin typing a reply because you are arguing something that has nothing to do with my initial post. I'm done [Edited 6/4/05 14:11pm] OK, I think there is a problem, I repeat what I said many times before, I think that Prince IS a genius of music... To me it's the last great artist that I've never seen in my life... Second thing, you criticize me that I bring too many subjective arguments, but tin the same time you TRY to convince me with lame arguments how great Prince is.... When you say "Little Richard was feminine, but his lyrics did not challenge the rigid gender lines as explicitly as Prince's did." Excuse me, BUT you should know that Little Richard and Prince haven't lived in the same ERA ?? In the 80's sexuality and androgeny in Music were THE NORM (I did a thread about that) ... I don''t think that in the 50's it was possible to do Music like Prince did in the 80's because the mentality wasn't the same during THIS time... So trying to compare Richard and Prince on this point is a non sense... Plus when you said that "Give me examples of songs with lyrics as brilliant as If I Was Your Girlfriend", it's absolutely SUBJECTIVE... Even if I love this song though (one of my fav.), I could tell you exactely the same with a bunch of Stevie's songs like All is fair in love, Golden lady, or They won't go when I go etc... I can tell you the same for others artists songs ... What you said is ONLY a matter of taste...It's only your point of view Plus when you talkin about "Prince's importance to the mainstream and the role of black men in American society" And what about STEVIE ?? Stevie was a political militant and humanitarian, and that's a fact... This point is the weakest of all... And I can tell you the same for JB, Sly or Isaac Hayes etc... Plus Prince isn't the first to be analysed in College... (You talk like Prince was the one and only), All the greatest contempory songwritters are analysed, even rappers are analysed...lol When you said that "saying someone is more genius than another is flawed because genius is genius and what you favor is subjective."... It's hella stupid... The same reason why I consider some artist "more genius" than others, is the same reason why YOU consider Prince a genius and an some others artists NOT... It's not being subjective, it's a matter of FACT (talent, skills, impact, success, influence, quality ...) Prefering an artist more than an other IS instead a matter of TASTE, and its' subjective and this is exaxtely what you are doing... To me some artists are more genius than others, the same way I think that Stevie is the greatest R&B genius, I consider Prince more genius that a lot of others great geniuses... If a great artist has accomplished more things than an other one, I can't put them on the same level... I'm sorry... PS : Before criticize me of having "no reading comprehension skills" , try to stop contradict yourself all the time first... | |
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NeoSoulScribe said: krayzie said: WTF you talkin, you embarassing yourself now... To you Sly isn't a genius ??
To you James isn't a genius??
To you MArvin isn't a genius ??
James CREATES what Prince did the MOST part of his life !!! I'm talkin about the FUNK, without JAMES there is NO PRINCE or the same Prince that we know, There are NO Cliton, NO Sly, NO Bootsy Collins, No ... I think that when a artist create a nex kind of music he deserve the title odf GENIUS ... WTF ?? First before saying stupid thing, try to really know what have accomplished all these artist in their careers... Maybe you don't like them, but you can't deny their influences and the fact that they CHANGE definitely the Music ?? And some of them more than Ray, Stevie or Prince ... I'm sorry but you sound very fool on this one... You're confusing someone's INFLUENCE as being the GENIUS to someone else. Can't. That makes no sense, lil fella. Read MY criteria over again. Then read again. Then read it one more time. Then respond accordingly. No, I don't confuse someone's influence... You misunderstood me... I criticize the fact that you said that JB isn't a genius, and I try to tell you that WITHOUT JB, THE MUSIC Wouldn't be the same, and Prince like others great artists are all influenced by him... It's the biggest proof that JB is truly a genius... Plus your criteria isn't the gold standard for judging geniuses like VoicesCarry said... [Edited 6/5/05 11:38am] | |
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NeoSoulScribe said: VoicesCarry said: One of the dictionary definitions of genius is "a person who influences another for good or bad". So, actually, it does make sense. And, no offense, but since when did your criteria become the gold standard for judging geniuses? krayzie obviously has different criteria, so let him be. [Edited 6/5/05 10:32am] And I don't see genius that way. That's a more 'simple' definition of the word genius that I don't feel fits here. I like this definition much better and being more accurate: Extraordinary and native intellectual power especially as manifested in unusual capacity for creative activity of any kind. And I said in my original post that that was MY criteria, didn't I? I never said my criteria was what everyone had to follow. I voiced my opinion, Krayzie reacted, I responded, and here we are. [Edited 6/5/05 10:42am] There have been entire books written solely on the topic of attempts to define "genius". There are a million viewpoints on the subject. Saying one person's criteria make no sense is silly. That's all I was trying to say. [Edited 6/5/05 11:48am] | |
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krayzie said: DorothyParkerWasCool said: First let me comment on the part of your post I have in bold. Obviously I know Sly Stone was the first to have an interracial band if I referenced him in my initial post about R&B geniuses. Do you remember reading his name there in my comment about his impact being arguably the greatest on music in the 1970s? In reference to the Little Richard comment, Little Richard was feminine, but his lyrics did not challenge the rigid gender lines as explicitly as Prince's did. Give me examples of songs with lyrics as brilliant as If I Was Your Girlfriend and I will shut up. Furthermore, bell hooks, the noted author, college professor and social commentator has broken down Prince's importance to the mainstream and the role of black men in American society. I suggest you read it because maybe you will gain more appreciation for the steps Prince was taking and the ground he broke in the industry. Hell she even analyzes his lyrics in her English classes at The City College of New York, and asks her students what perspective he was writing from male/female or if the songs are genderless or combine traits of both genders. If thats not a social impact I don't know what is. But I digress. I will just say this and I'm not trying to be rude, but you do not comprehend what you read. I seriously think you took everything I said out of context even though I spelled it out for you. I never tried to convince you that Prince was more talented, I just gave the reasons why I like him better than Stevie. The comments about Lennon Santana etc, were in regards to the statement I made about the handful of genius musicians in all forms of music. (Hence the start of a new paragraph about the other musicians I named) I was not saying that u weren't looking outside the soul genre, I was just including a few names in relation to a point I was making. I think you really need to stop getting defensive when someone offers a differing opinion because I never attacked anything you were saying. I was just stating a preference just like you are. My point was that saying someone is more genius than another is flawed because genius is genius and what you favor is subjective. That was my point man, damn how hard is that to understand? It's really frustrating when people have no reading comprehension skills. Word of advice, when you read something, process it all the way through before you begin typing a reply because you are arguing something that has nothing to do with my initial post. I'm done [Edited 6/4/05 14:11pm] OK, I think there is a problem, I repeat what I said many times before, I think that Prince IS a genius of music... To me it's the last great artist that I've never seen in my life... Second thing, you criticize me that I bring too many subjective arguments, but tin the same time you TRY to convince me with lame arguments how great Prince is.... When you say "Little Richard was feminine, but his lyrics did not challenge the rigid gender lines as explicitly as Prince's did." Excuse me, BUT you should know that Little Richard and Prince haven't lived in the same ERA ?? In the 80's sexuality and androgeny in Music were THE NORM (I did a thread about that) ... I don''t think that in the 50's it was possible to do Music like Prince did in the 80's because the mentality wasn't the same during THIS time... So trying to compare Richard and Prince on this point is a non sense... Plus when you said that "Give me examples of songs with lyrics as brilliant as If I Was Your Girlfriend", it's absolutely SUBJECTIVE... Even if I love this song though (one of my fav.), I could tell you exactely the same with a bunch of Stevie's songs like All is fair in love, Golden lady, or They won't go when I go etc... I can tell you the same for others artists songs ... What you said is ONLY a matter of taste...It's only your point of view Plus when you talkin about "Prince's importance to the mainstream and the role of black men in American society" And what about STEVIE ?? Stevie was a political militant and humanitarian, and that's a fact... This point is the weakest of all... And I can tell you the same for JB, Sly or Isaac Hayes etc... Plus Prince isn't the first to be analysed in College... (You talk like Prince was the one and only), All the greatest contempory songwritters are analysed, even rappers are analysed...lol When you said that "saying someone is more genius than another is flawed because genius is genius and what you favor is subjective."... It's hella stupid... The same reason why I consider some artist "more genius" than others, is the same reason why YOU consider Prince a genius and an some others artists NOT... It's not being subjective, it's a matter of FACT (talent, skills, impact, success, influence, quality ...) Prefering an artist more than an other IS instead a matter of TASTE, and its' subjective and this is exaxtely what you are doing... To me some artists are more genius than others, the same way I think that Stevie is the greatest R&B genius, I consider Prince more genius that a lot of others great geniuses... If a great artist has accomplished more things than an other one, I can't put them on the same level... I'm sorry... PS : Before criticize me of having "no reading comprehension skills" , try to stop contradict yourself all the time first... Number one, you brought Little Richard into the conversation and I took the liberty of comparing the two AFTER you introduced LR in the discussion. Little Richard was immensely important because a bi-sexual male in the music biz was and still is taboo, and a bi-sexual black male was more than groundbreaking. Prince was groundbreaking as well because he combined similar elements in a heterosexual black male's role. Saying that Prince wasn't the only one doing so is a moot point because by the same token I can say that most artists in the 1970s were militant, which they were, and in some instances much more militant than Stevie Wonder. The example of If I Was Your Girlfriend was used to show Prince's brilliance of blurring gender lines. That's not subjective its fact. Now if I had said that's the ONLY song I like about blurring gender lines and therefore the only one I will recognzie as doing so because its my favorite, then that would be a comment based on a biased opinion, which would make the comment subjective. Also making a comparison between the Stevie Wonder songs YOU mentioned and If I Was Your Girlfriend has no validity because IFWYG looks at love through blurred/non-traditional gender roles, while the Stevie Wonder songs discuss love in a more traditional sense. Again, lack of comprehension. 2nd point, I never stated that Prince was the only musician to be analyzed in college, you chose to infer something that was never mentioned. I was just writing how Prince has had a social impact like you so eloquently stated Stevie has. Your lame attempt to disqualify my initial statement by saying that rappers are analyzed in college shows how you do not understand the social impact that rap/hip hop has on all of society. If you understood that social impact you would not have chosen to attempt to discredit my point by using such a flawed example. Saying in so many words, hell rap is analyzed in college what makes Prince so special? Society is analyzed in college, or more succinctly the parts of society that greatly impact the way we interpret reality. In regards to Prince having a social impact through his blurring of gender and racial lines: a little FYI, being a social militant is not limited to a political context. Challenging the definitions and categorizations that society designates for said group of people and or the perceived inferior group, is a form of rebellion as well. Again, you are limiting the context of being militant to political awareness/discussion. I suggest you expand your scope and you will find that there are MANY forms of resistance. Furthermore, you will realize that you need all of these various parts to improve the whole. Third and final statement, everything you wrote in your reply proves that you have no comprehension skills because anyone with half a brain can read the numerous contradictions you have made and how your argument has NOTHING to do with the initial point I made. I seriously think you need a dictionary and some tests on how to analyze an argument properly inorder to understand the point of a statement. I hate to take shots at people, but your asinine arguments are very frustrating. I respectfully disagreed with your opinion in my initial reply to your post, however you chose to get defensive and to take issue with my point of view. I will not continue to have a discussion with someone that wants to argue. You can post your reply all day and preach to yourself because only you understand what the hell you're talking about. In other words, me arguing with you is an excercise in futility, You win! [Edited 6/5/05 13:05pm] | |
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DorothyParkerWasCool said: krayzie said: OK, I think there is a problem, I repeat what I said many times before, I think that Prince IS a genius of music... To me it's the last great artist that I've never seen in my life... Second thing, you criticize me that I bring too many subjective arguments, but tin the same time you TRY to convince me with lame arguments how great Prince is.... When you say "Little Richard was feminine, but his lyrics did not challenge the rigid gender lines as explicitly as Prince's did." Excuse me, BUT you should know that Little Richard and Prince haven't lived in the same ERA ?? In the 80's sexuality and androgeny in Music were THE NORM (I did a thread about that) ... I don''t think that in the 50's it was possible to do Music like Prince did in the 80's because the mentality wasn't the same during THIS time... So trying to compare Richard and Prince on this point is a non sense... Plus when you said that "Give me examples of songs with lyrics as brilliant as If I Was Your Girlfriend", it's absolutely SUBJECTIVE... Even if I love this song though (one of my fav.), I could tell you exactely the same with a bunch of Stevie's songs like All is fair in love, Golden lady, or They won't go when I go etc... I can tell you the same for others artists songs ... What you said is ONLY a matter of taste...It's only your point of view Plus when you talkin about "Prince's importance to the mainstream and the role of black men in American society" And what about STEVIE ?? Stevie was a political militant and humanitarian, and that's a fact... This point is the weakest of all... And I can tell you the same for JB, Sly or Isaac Hayes etc... Plus Prince isn't the first to be analysed in College... (You talk like Prince was the one and only), All the greatest contempory songwritters are analysed, even rappers are analysed...lol When you said that "saying someone is more genius than another is flawed because genius is genius and what you favor is subjective."... It's hella stupid... The same reason why I consider some artist "more genius" than others, is the same reason why YOU consider Prince a genius and an some others artists NOT... It's not being subjective, it's a matter of FACT (talent, skills, impact, success, influence, quality ...) Prefering an artist more than an other IS instead a matter of TASTE, and its' subjective and this is exaxtely what you are doing... To me some artists are more genius than others, the same way I think that Stevie is the greatest R&B genius, I consider Prince more genius that a lot of others great geniuses... If a great artist has accomplished more things than an other one, I can't put them on the same level... I'm sorry... PS : Before criticize me of having "no reading comprehension skills" , try to stop contradict yourself all the time first... Number one, you brought Little Richard into the conversation and I took the liberty of comparing the two AFTER you introduced LR in the discussion. Little Richard was immensely important because a bi-sexual male in the music biz was and still is taboo, and a bi-sexual black male was more than groundbreaking. Prince was groundbreaking as well because he combined similar elements in a heterosexual black male's role. Saying that Prince wasn't the only one doing so is a moot point because by the same token I can say that most artists in the 1970s were militant, which they were, and in some instances much more militant than Stevie Wonder. The example of If I Was Your Girlfriend was used to show Prince's brilliance of blurring gender lines. That's not subjective its fact. Now if I had said that's the ONLY song I like about blurring gender lines and therefore the only one I will recognzie as doing so because its my favorite, then that would be a comment based on a biased opinion, which would make the comment subjective. Also making a comparison between the Stevie Wonder songs YOU mentioned and If I Was Your Girlfriend has no validity because IFWYG looks at love through blurred/non-traditional gender roles, while the Stevie Wonder songs discuss love in a more traditional sense. Again, lack of comprehension. 2nd point, I never stated that Prince was the only musician to be analyzed in college, you chose to infer something that was never mentioned. I was just writing how Prince has had a social impact like you so eloquently stated Stevie has. Your lame attempt to disqualify my initial statement by saying that rappers are analyzed in college shows how you do not understand the social impact that rap/hip hop has on all of society. If you understood that social impact you would not have chosen to attempt to discredit my point by using such a flawed example. Saying in so many words, hell rap is analyzed in college what makes Prince so special? Society is analyzed in college, or more succinctly the parts of society that greatly impact the way we interpret reality. In regards to Prince having a social impact through his blurring of gender and racial lines: a little FYI, being a social militant is not limited to a political context. Challenging the definitions and categorizations that socitey limits for said group of people/the perceived inferior group, is a form of rebellion as well. Again, you are limiting the context of being militant to political awareness/discussion. I suggest you expand your scope and you will find that there are MANY forms of resistance. Furthermore, you will realize that you need all of these various parts to improve the whole. Third and final statement, everything you wrote in your reply proves that you have no comprehension skills because anyone with half a brain can read the numerous contradictions you have made and how your argument has NOTHING to do with the initial point I made. I seriously think you need a dictionary and some tests on how to analyze an argument properly inorder to understand the point of a statement. I hate to take shots at people, but your asinine arguments are very frustrating. I respectfully disagreed with your opinion in my initial reply to your post, however you chose to get defensive and to take issue with my point of view. I will not continue to have a discussion with someone that wants to argue. You can post your reply all day and preach to yourself because only you understand what the hell you're talking about. In other words, me arguing with you is an excercise in futility, You win! [Edited 6/5/05 13:01pm] Cm'on stop making some personal attack... You are embarassing yourself now... First of all, I brought Little Richard in the conversation because you said "Also, he (Prince) showed that men, especially black men, did not have to be these ultramacho sterotypes that society loves to perpetuate" Maybe I'm wrong, but Little Richard was the first black artist to have an extremely feminine image in the mainstream music WAY BEFORE Prince... Plus when you said "Little Richard was feminine, but his lyrics did not challenge the rigid gender lines as explicitly as Prince's did"... IT's STUPID !!! Like I said before YOU CAN'T compare LR and P because in the 50's it was impossible to do Music like Prince did in the 80's... Sexuality in the lyrics was forbidden in the 50's, so even if LR would do songs like Prince, HE would have be banned... So he couldn't do it... Instead in the 80's sexuality and androginy were the NORM... So your statement is lame... I don't know WHY you compare P and LR on this one ?? It's a non sense... Is that so difficult to understand ?? Second thing, when you said that "Prince has had a social impact like you so eloquently stated Stevie has." Something you have to know on this point... I never deny the fact that Prince has had a big social impact (more cultural than social I think)... What I said is Stevie has had a BIG impact as a cultural Icon, as a political icon, and HUMANITARIAN Icon... Prince is not known to be AS militant AS Stevie, AS POLITICAL AS STEVIE, OR AS HUMANITARIAN AS Stevie is... And it's not the reason why I consider Stevie as the greatest genius of R&B... Plus I don't want to tell you all the things Stevie has done as an humanitarian and political militant in his life... It's too long... Your final statement is only the proof of the lack of arguments you have... You criticize me of being subjective but in the same time you try to convince me with a bunch of subjective arguments that you are right... WTF ?? | |
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You have edited your post... | |
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What a crap list | |
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DorothyParkerWasCool said: Number one, you brought Little Richard into the conversation and I took the liberty of comparing the two AFTER you introduced LR in the discussion. Little Richard was immensely important because a bi-sexual male in the music biz was and still is taboo, and a bi-sexual black male was more than groundbreaking. Prince was groundbreaking as well because he combined similar elements in a heterosexual black male's role. Saying that Prince wasn't the only one doing so is a moot point because by the same token I can say that most artists in the 1970s were militant, which they were, and in some instances much more militant than Stevie Wonder. You said "Also, he showed that men, especially black men, did not have to be these ultramacho sterotypes that society loves to perpetuate." Maybe I'm wrong, but you seems to talk like he was the first to do that or one of the firsts, this is why I put in the convesation LR who was (way BEFORE Prince) the first black artist to bring a more feminine image... This is why Prince wasn't groundbreaking as LR was, because in the late 70's/early 80's a lot of black and white artists started to combine similar elements in a heterosexual male's role ... Prince wasn't alone... Look at Ricky James if you don't believe me, and I don't name some white artist like David Bowie... DorothyParkerWasCool said: The example of If I Was Your Girlfriend was used to show Prince's brilliance of blurring gender lines. That's not subjective its fact. Now if I had said that's the ONLY song I like about blurring gender lines and therefore the only one I will recognzie as doing so because its my favorite, then that would be a comment based on a biased opinion, which would make the comment subjective. Also making a comparison between the Stevie Wonder songs YOU mentioned and If I Was Your Girlfriend has no validity because IFWYG looks at love through blurred/non-traditional gender roles, while the Stevie Wonder songs discuss love in a more traditional sense. Again, lack of comprehension. On If I was your girlfriend, You said exactely "Give me examples of songs with lyrics as brilliant as If I Was Your Girlfriend and I will shut up." This is WHY I answered you that I can tell you exactely the same for some Stevie's songs that I consider brillant (like They won't go when I go, or All is fair in love). Like I said it's only a matter of TASTE... It's subjective to say that one song has brilliant lyrics... It's not a fact... You try to convince me that your point of view is a fact... Proof that you can't be objective... Plus YOU WEREN'T talkin about "Prince's brilliance of blurring gender lines"... You have said exactely "Give me examples of songs with lyrics as brilliant as If I Was Your Girlfriend and I will shut up." You werent talkin about "blurring gender lines..." Go and see yourself how you transform and change your statements... Ridiculous... DorothyParkerWasCool said: 2nd point, I never stated that Prince was the only musician to be analyzed in college, you chose to infer something that was never mentioned. I was just writing how Prince has had a social impact like you so eloquently stated Stevie has. Your lame attempt to disqualify my initial statement by saying that rappers are analyzed in college shows how you do not understand the social impact that rap/hip hop has on all of society. If you understood that social impact you would not have chosen to attempt to discredit my point by using such a flawed example. Saying in so many words, hell rap is analyzed in college what makes Prince so special? Society is analyzed in college, or more succinctly the parts of society that greatly impact the way we interpret reality. In regards to Prince having a social impact through his blurring of gender and racial lines: a little FYI, being a social militant is not limited to a political context. Challenging the definitions and categorizations that society designates for said group of people and or the perceived inferior group, is a form of rebellion as well. Again, you are limiting the context of being militant to political awareness/discussion. I suggest you expand your scope and you will find that there are MANY forms of resistance. Furthermore, you will realize that you need all of these various parts to improve the whole. Stop puting words in my mouth that I never said... I never said "hell rap is analyzed in college what makes Prince so special" ... WTF ?? Don't try to transform my statements, I only explain you that Prince LIKE a lot of others great SONGWRITTERS has been analysed in some college... I try to explain you that being analysed in College has nothing so special... But as an artist Prince is a very special of course, so don't change my statements, you seem to have some lack of comprehension....lol Plus when you said that "you (I) are limiting the context of being militant "... WTF ?? I don't limit nothing, you only interprate my thoughts... once again... I don't ignore the facts that Prince has some political thoughts, but you can't DENY the fact that Stevie was more militant than Prince... I don't say it's bad... It's not what makes Stevie the greatest genius of R&B to me, It's a fact that you seem to deny or minimize... Plus I know that some artist were far more militants than Stevie... You sound fool on this one.... | |
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DorothyParkerWasCool said: I will not continue to have a discussion with someone that wants to argue. You can post your reply all day and preach to yourself because only you understand what the hell you're talking about. In other words, me arguing with you is an excercise in futility, You win! [/b] Read it again | |
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DorothyParkerWasCool said: DorothyParkerWasCool said: I will not continue to have a discussion with someone that wants to argue. You can post your reply all day and preach to yourself because only you understand what the hell you're talking about. In other words, me arguing with you is an excercise in futility, You win! [/b] Read it again I response two times because you have edited your last post... You have added some things that I don't have seen the first time... [Edited 6/5/05 15:23pm] | |
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krayzie said: NeoSoulScribe said: You're confusing someone's INFLUENCE as being the GENIUS to someone else. Can't. That makes no sense, lil fella. Read MY criteria over again. Then read again. Then read it one more time. Then respond accordingly. No, I don't confuse someone's influence... You misunderstood me... I criticize the fact that you said that JB isn't a genius, and I try to tell you that WITHOUT JB, THE MUSIC Wouldn't be the same, and Prince like others great artists are all influenced by him... It's the biggest proof that JB is truly a genius... Plus your criteria isn't the gold standard for judging geniuses like VoicesCarry said...
[Edited 6/5/05 11:38am] So basically what YOU'RE saying is that EVERYBODY that Prince has borrowed from is a GENIUS? So if Prince borrowed from D'Angelo, would that make D' a genius? See how weak that sounds? Just because an artist had someone borrow from them or was influenced by them doesn't make them a musical genius. Makes no sense. And when did I say MY criteria was what EVERYBODY had to follow? You said Prince wasn't AS much a genius as Stevie and I thought that was ridiculous, but I'm pretty sure you're reasoning isn't the reasoning that is gold. Right? LOL! Silent shouts, I hope you hear
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VoicesCarry said: NeoSoulScribe said: And I don't see genius that way. That's a more 'simple' definition of the word genius that I don't feel fits here. I like this definition much better and being more accurate: Extraordinary and native intellectual power especially as manifested in unusual capacity for creative activity of any kind. And I said in my original post that that was MY criteria, didn't I? I never said my criteria was what everyone had to follow. I voiced my opinion, Krayzie reacted, I responded, and here we are. [Edited 6/5/05 10:42am] There have been entire books written solely on the topic of attempts to define "genius". There are a million viewpoints on the subject. Saying one person's criteria make no sense is silly. That's all I was trying to say. [Edited 6/5/05 11:48am] Right, and all I was asking was where did I say my criteria was the end all of criteria that determined musical genius? Silent shouts, I hope you hear
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NeoSoulScribe said: krayzie said: No, I don't confuse someone's influence... You misunderstood me... I criticize the fact that you said that JB isn't a genius, and I try to tell you that WITHOUT JB, THE MUSIC Wouldn't be the same, and Prince like others great artists are all influenced by him... It's the biggest proof that JB is truly a genius... Plus your criteria isn't the gold standard for judging geniuses like VoicesCarry said...
[Edited 6/5/05 11:38am] So basically what YOU'RE saying is that EVERYBODY that Prince has borrowed from is a GENIUS? So if Prince borrowed from D'Angelo, would that make D' a genius? See how weak that sounds? Just because an artist had someone borrow from them or was influenced by them doesn't make them a musical genius. Makes no sense. And when did I say MY criteria was what EVERYBODY had to follow? You said Prince wasn't AS much a genius as Stevie and I thought that was ridiculous, but I'm pretty sure you're reasoning isn't the reasoning that is gold. Right? LOL!
Com'on ...lol I answer to your statement that JB isn't a genius...
JB is a true genius because he created a NEW kind of music, THE FUNK, and a lot of great geniuses like P, Sly, Clinton have borrowed his music (with some different flavor) Also, his impact is BIGGER than anything I've seen in R&B music... If you see all the great albums he released, and the big influence he has on so many other artist as a performer, dancer and musician and the success he has, it's the proof that JB is a true genius, because nobody has done what JB has done... You can tell me that Stevie, Ray or Prince are more talented than JB but you can't deny that JB is truly a genius and definitely changes the MUSIC... Without him a lot of artists wouldn't be the same... This is a fact that you can't deny ... Plus I don't know why you talkin about D'Angelo... [Edited 6/5/05 16:53pm] | |
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krayzie said: NeoSoulScribe said: So basically what YOU'RE saying is that EVERYBODY that Prince has borrowed from is a GENIUS? So if Prince borrowed from D'Angelo, would that make D' a genius? See how weak that sounds? Just because an artist had someone borrow from them or was influenced by them doesn't make them a musical genius. Makes no sense. And when did I say MY criteria was what EVERYBODY had to follow? You said Prince wasn't AS much a genius as Stevie and I thought that was ridiculous, but I'm pretty sure you're reasoning isn't the reasoning that is gold. Right? LOL!
Com'on ...lol I answer to your statement that JB isn't a genius...
JB is a true genius because he created a NEW kind of music, THE FUNK, and a lot of great geniuses like P, Sly, Clinton have borrowed his music (with some different flavor) Also, his impact is BIGGER than anything I've seen in R&B music... If you see all the great albums he released, and the big influence he has on so many other artist as a performer, dancer and musician and the success he has, it's the proof that JB is a true genius, because nobody has done what JB has done... You can tell me that Stevie, Ray or Prince are more talented than JB but you can't deny that JB is truly a genius and definitely changes the MUSIC... Without him a lot of artists wouldn't be the same... This is a fact that you can't deny ... Plus I don't know why you talkin about D'Angelo...
[Edited 6/5/05 16:53pm] ? JB CREATED FUNK? Where'd you get this from? LOL! That's hella new to me! Also, you're confusing PIONEER with GENIUS. That's where your error lies. Silent shouts, I hope you hear
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NeoSoulScribe said: krayzie said:
Com'on ...lol I answer to your statement that JB isn't a genius...
JB is a true genius because he created a NEW kind of music, THE FUNK, and a lot of great geniuses like P, Sly, Clinton have borrowed his music (with some different flavor) Also, his impact is BIGGER than anything I've seen in R&B music... If you see all the great albums he released, and the big influence he has on so many other artist as a performer, dancer and musician and the success he has, it's the proof that JB is a true genius, because nobody has done what JB has done... You can tell me that Stevie, Ray or Prince are more talented than JB but you can't deny that JB is truly a genius and definitely changes the MUSIC... Without him a lot of artists wouldn't be the same... This is a fact that you can't deny ... Plus I don't know why you talkin about D'Angelo...
[Edited 6/5/05 16:53pm] ? JB CREATED FUNK? Where'd you get this from? LOL! That's hella new to me! Also, you're confusing PIONEER with GENIUS. That's where your error lies.  Tell'em Neo. Ignorance on the Funk can't be ignored but corrected. | |
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theAudience said: Insert said list...
...and dispose of properly. 
tA  Tribal Disorder
http://www.soundclick.com...rmusic.htm TA, you have done it again my bortha w/the bullshit bag.  | |
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NeoSoulScribe said: krayzie said:
Com'on ...lol I answer to your statement that JB isn't a genius...
JB is a true genius because he created a NEW kind of music, THE FUNK, and a lot of great geniuses like P, Sly, Clinton have borrowed his music (with some different flavor) Also, his impact is BIGGER than anything I've seen in R&B music... If you see all the great albums he released, and the big influence he has on so many other artist as a performer, dancer and musician and the success he has, it's the proof that JB is a true genius, because nobody has done what JB has done... You can tell me that Stevie, Ray or Prince are more talented than JB but you can't deny that JB is truly a genius and definitely changes the MUSIC... Without him a lot of artists wouldn't be the same... This is a fact that you can't deny ... Plus I don't know why you talkin about D'Angelo...
[Edited 6/5/05 16:53pm] ? JB CREATED FUNK? Where'd you get this from? LOL! That's hella new to me! Also, you're confusing PIONEER with GENIUS. That's where your error lies. I'm not confusing pioneer and genius, you can be a pioneer AND a genius, it's not incompatible ... [Edited 6/5/05 17:59pm] | |
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NeoSoulScribe said: VoicesCarry said: One of the dictionary definitions of genius is "a person who influences another for good or bad". So, actually, it does make sense. And, no offense, but since when did your criteria become the gold standard for judging geniuses? krayzie obviously has different criteria, so let him be. [Edited 6/5/05 10:32am] And I don't see genius that way. That's a more 'simple' definition of the word genius that I don't feel fits here. I like this definition much better and being more accurate: Extraordinary and native intellectual power especially as manifested in unusual capacity for creative activity of any kind. And I said in my original post that that was MY criteria, didn't I? I never said my criteria was what everyone had to follow. I voiced my opinion, Krayzie reacted, I responded, and here we are. [Edited 6/5/05 10:42am] YOu said in you original post : NeoSoulScribe said: When I think of MUSICAL GENIUS I think of someone encompassing ALL of mucis: Singing, writing, composing, instrumentation, output. And then you added NeoSoulScribe said: You're confusing someone's INFLUENCE as being the GENIUS to someone else. Can't. That makes no sense, lil fella. Read MY criteria over again. Then read again. Then read it one more time. Then respond accordingly. Why I have to read YOUR criteria ?? Your criteria isn't the standard for judging geniuses... So I don't have to read it... You said in your original post : "I never said my criteria was what everyone had to follow" And in then you said : "Read MY criteria over again. Then read again. Then read it one more time. Then respond accordingly." Proof that you contradict yourself... [b][Edited 6/5/05 18:30pm] | |
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krayzie said: NeoSoulScribe said: ? JB CREATED FUNK? Where'd you get this from? LOL! That's hella new to me! Also, you're confusing PIONEER with GENIUS. That's where your error lies. I'm not confusing pioneer and genius, you can be a pioneer AND a genius, it's not incompatible ... [Edited 6/5/05 17:59pm] Tell us how JB created Funk. Silent shouts, I hope you hear
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krayzie said:[quote] NeoSoulScribe said: And then you added NeoSoulScribe said: You're confusing someone's INFLUENCE as being the GENIUS to someone else. Can't. That makes no sense, lil fella. Read MY criteria over again. Then read again. Then read it one more time. Then respond accordingly. Why I have to read YOUR criteria ?? Your criteria isn't the standard for judging geniuses... So I don't have to read it... You said in your original post : "I never said my criteria was what everyone had to follow" And in then you said : "Read MY criteria over again. Then read again. Then read it one more time. Then respond accordingly." Proof that you contradict yourself...
[b][Edited 6/5/05 18:30pm] LOL! Bro, I think you've lost your "Songs In The Key Of Life" mind. Again, show me where I said ~MY CRITERIA IS WHAT THE WORLD GOES BY~ and then, AND ONLY THEN, will I have contradicted myself. Silent shouts, I hope you hear
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Hotlegs said: NeoSoulScribe said: ? JB CREATED FUNK? Where'd you get this from? LOL! That's hella new to me! Also, you're confusing PIONEER with GENIUS. That's where your error lies. Tell'em Neo. Ignorance on the Funk can't be ignored but corrected.  Silent shouts, I hope you hear
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NeoSoulScribe said: krayzie said: I'm not confusing pioneer and genius, you can be a pioneer AND a genius, it's not incompatible ... [Edited 6/5/05 17:59pm] Tell us how JB created Funk. Com'on I don't want to "waste" my time to learn you how JB and his band invented modern funk... | |
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NeoSoulScribe said: krayzie said: Why I have to read YOUR criteria ?? Your criteria isn't the standard for judging geniuses... So I don't have to read it... You said in your original post : "I never said my criteria was what everyone had to follow" And in then you said : "Read MY criteria over again. Then read again. Then read it one more time. Then respond accordingly." Proof that you contradict yourself...
[Edited 6/5/05 18:30pm] LOL! Bro, I think you've lost your "Songs In The Key Of Life" mind. Again, show me where I said ~MY CRITERIA IS WHAT THE WORLD GOES BY~ and then, AND ONLY THEN, will I have contradicted myself.
First of all I never said "YOUR CRITERIA IS WHAT THE WORLD GOES BY", stop creating statements that I've never said, but you ask me explicitly to "READ YOUR CRITERIA..., Then respond accordingly." SO, WTF ???
Read your post and you'll see (on this one I can't help you). I don't have to read YOUR CRITERIA, SO WHY SHOULD I READ YOUR CRITERIA AND ACCORDING MYSELF ???
Your Criteria isn't the standard... This is the first time that I heard someone saying "read MY criteria" and [/i]"respond accordingly"...[/i]
HOW STUPID yous sound one this one...
Proof that you contradict yourself once again... If you don't understand that, I can do nothing for you...  | |
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krayzie said: NeoSoulScribe said: Tell us how JB created Funk. Com'on I don't want to "waste" my time to learn you how JB and his band invented modern funk... LOL! So basically YOU CAN'T PROVE IT! Nice call, lil fella. Silent shouts, I hope you hear
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