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Printablesosgemini said: How bias and unobjective can one be.
Yeah, that about sums you up.  | |
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It seems more and more obvious why he likes the company of kids as this trial goes on. They don't ask anything of him (just beware of their parents).
In the past couple of months just look at these thousands upon thousands (worldwide) of stragglers and hangers on who see the opportunity to make some cash or a name for themselves by jumping on his affairs. Journalists and reporters yeah.... he is SICK OF THESE MOTHER FU**ERS! He'll never get away from these type of people. The only chance he has of anyone treating him natural and normal is through unprejudiced, unaffected minds of children. He's not normal and will never be. So I don't think we need to hear many more comments on his strangeness or his love of children. If you can't understand why he doesn't act like any of us or our friends you must be retarded. For those who want to make an argument about him bringing this all on himself, first give me one single example of another human being in history who has grown up under similar scrutiny or circumstances! Peace! 
He DID do this. All of the things and attention all these years...MJ brought it, Stroked it, Licked it. Why do you think the Bashir doc was done? For Publicity. So we can all see MJ as a normal functional human being. And it Backfired in more ways than one. Yes Bashir manipulated the camera to show us almost the opposite...but still MJ could have said NO.
he could have said no, but I don´t know. I understand Michael and why he probably did that. but he needed to go through this...he needed to be shamed....i get the impression that the man thought he was a God...the way he walked around that Las Vegas mall buying anything and everything without a thought...the way he dangled his baby...the whole tommy matolla (sic?) ordeal.....its all evidence of MJ's mental disorder...*and* dare i say his allowing kids to sleep in his bed....
doing all those things itself looks that he thought he was God, but THE WAY he did it and ¨the WAY Mj does things never actually gave me that impression. To me, he can do the most "egoistic" things and look humble doing it. I don´t think that it´s always about what you do, but also HOW you do it. People can pretend. You can see ppl do "unselfish things" like charity and still don´t feel that they do just to make themselves look good. But I never felt PREJUDICE on MJ´s part. But that´s just me I guess. Ppl feel differently about things. "When Michael Jackson is just singing and dancing, you just think this is an astonishing talent. And he has had this astounding talent all his life, but we want him to be floored as well. We really don´t like the idea that he could have it all." | |
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BoOTyLiCioUs said: Personally, I think MJ is mentally ill. I mean, look at his facial transformations over the years and how terrible he looks now alone. They aren't signs of a mentally healthy person
Hmmf..I guess Cher is mentally ill because she has had a ton of plastic surgery also. It's funny how a white celebirty has a ton of plastic surgery and no one really pays them attention but if a black celebrity gets a ton of plastic surgery then it's a huge deal and they have to do tv specials on it.  Don't try to use the race card... And don't compare Cher to Michael jackson... Cher wants to be younger, Michael Jackson wants to be a white woman... It's a big difference... [Edited 6/1/05 5:14am] |
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Don't try to use the race card...
And don't compare Cher to Michael jackson... Cher wants to be younger, Michael Jackson want to be a white woman... It's a big difference...  "When Michael Jackson is just singing and dancing, you just think this is an astonishing talent. And he has had this astounding talent all his life, but we want him to be floored as well. We really don´t like the idea that he could have it all." | |
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Luv4oneanotha said: All right let me put the keddle on,
since you guys still don't understand Lleena this case has been handled in an unorthodox manner already there is no alternative... Im talking about the judgement Certain things don't apply to this case, For instance... You can't convict Jackson based on the notion that he's admitted to sleeping with various children. if this was any other person, just that innuendo will send a conviction for any ordinary person. My point is that the evidence should be interpretted differently... because of the unorthodox manner of this case... Jacksons Celebrity Status, and Public opinion on his lifestyle must be left out, so he can be "Equal" correct? but though they are not an issue the jurors must take in affact his celebrity status and his lifestyle, because of the charachter judgement thats in this verdict equation. they also have to take in the information that he admittedly sleeps with children... in addition they also have to counter that out of all the children he slept with only a fraction has ever came forward with some kind of allegation... The Jury has to make a note of all these variables into the equation of a verdict and determine what he truly is These variables... are key These variables are what make the case different and what can determine a conviction or an aquittal The case is unorthodox as it's a superstar/icon on trial here. I'm not disputing that. However, for me, thats where the unusual circumstances stop. I dont think the evidence should be interpreted differently because he is not in touch with reality, and that the jury should treat him with kid gloves because of this. no! The jury should keep in mind that the accuser's motive could be to extort money from jackson though, due to his wealth. I'm not baying for blood here, if you think I am you are wrong! I do think he should have a fair trial, but I DONT think there really are any mitigating circumstances, not in terms of his "alternate reality" anyway." That would be like saying "oh we think he's guilty, but lets let him off because he is not normal." His defense team have not used this and they wouldn't as it would be close to an admission of guilt (imo) But what do I know, I'm not a lawyer! we'll have to wait and see for the outcome. | |
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The case is unorthodox as it's a superstar/icon on trial here. I'm not disputing that. However, for me, thats where the unusual circumstances stop. I dont think the evidence should be interpreted differently because he is not in touch with reality, and that the jury should treat him with kid gloves because of this. no!
The jury should keep in mind that the accuser's motive could be to extort money from jackson though, due to his wealth. I'm not baying for blood here, if you think I am you are wrong! I do think he should have a fair trial, but I DONT think there really are any mitigating circumstances, not in terms of his "alternate reality" anyway." That would be like saying "oh we think he's guilty, but lets let him off because he is not normal." His defense team have not used this and they wouldn't as it would be close to an admission of guilt (imo) But what do I know, I'm not a lawyer! we'll have to wait and see for the outcome. that´s fair statement. "When Michael Jackson is just singing and dancing, you just think this is an astonishing talent. And he has had this astounding talent all his life, but we want him to be floored as well. We really don´t like the idea that he could have it all." | |
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Cloudbuster said: sosgemini said: How bias and unobjective can one be.
Yeah, that about sums you up. give me a fucking break man..i've said over and over again i think mj is innocent.....but im not gonna sit here and justify the perverse and unhealthy way this man goes about living his life..... its wrong for mj..its wrong for his kids...and its wrong for his career... Space for sale... | |
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sosgemini said: give me a fucking break man..i've said over and over again i think mj is innocent.....but im not gonna sit here and justify the perverse and unhealthy way this man goes about living his life.....
its wrong for mj..its wrong for his kids...and its wrong for his career... You're right. We should all conform to one particular lifestyle. It could be paradise. Individuality is such a sucky thing, ain't it.  | |
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Cloudbuster said: sosgemini said: give me a fucking break man..i've said over and over again i think mj is innocent.....but im not gonna sit here and justify the perverse and unhealthy way this man goes about living his life.....
its wrong for mj..its wrong for his kids...and its wrong for his career... You're right. We should all conform to one particular lifestyle. It could be paradise. Individuality is such a sucky thing, ain't it. im sorry but how did you reach that conclussion from my statement...stop being petty dude just because i disagree with you.... Space for sale... | |
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Cloudbuster said: sosgemini said: give me a fucking break man..i've said over and over again i think mj is innocent.....but im not gonna sit here and justify the perverse and unhealthy way this man goes about living his life.....
its wrong for mj..its wrong for his kids...and its wrong for his career... You're right. We should all conform to one particular lifestyle. It could be paradise. Individuality is such a sucky thing, ain't it. Individuality is a good thing and it's important, but having the common sense to know that some things are inappropriate is also important in terms of living a healthy life. | |
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[snip-sos] | |
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There should be a rule for NOT discussing ANYTHING that isn't directly happening in the court room. People here think they are psychologists, although they're propably not.
I agree. | |
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BoOTyLiCioUs said: There should be a rule for NOT discussing ANYTHING that isn't directly happening in the court room. People here think they are psychologists, although they're propably not.
I agree. [ehhh....but there is a rule against flaming people..please dont do it again..thanks-sos] Space for sale... | |
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Flaming people? What does that mean? I am sick of Krayzie's ignorant narrow minded comments. Why do u keep lettin him or it more like it say whatever it wants while I can't? | |
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BoOTyLiCioUs said: Flaming people? What does that mean? I am sick of Krayzie's ignorant narrow minded comments. Why do u keep lettin him or it more like it say whatever it wants while I can't?
okay..this is the deal...you can have any view that you want under the sun..you can hate mj...you can hate madonna...because they are public figures.... but we must respect each other because we are all part of the org community...even if we disagree or dislike each others views.....we can not call each other's names...we cant tell another to "go fuck themselves"...you just have to agree to disagree..... mmm-kay? and stop calling people's views ignorant or narrowminded...how the hell does that give you credibility when your voicing your side of the debate? come on now... you gonna lick the backside... Space for sale... | |
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okay..this is the deal...you can have any view that you want under the sun..you can hate mj...you can hate madonna...because they are public figures....
but we must respect each other because we are all part of the org community...even if we disagree or dislike each others views.....we can not call each other's names...we cant tell another to "go fuck themselves"...you just have to agree to disagree..... mmm-kay? and stop calling people's views ignorant or narrowminded...how the hell does that give you credibility when your voicing your side of the debate? come on now... Ok | |
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BoOTyLiCioUs said: okay..this is the deal...you can have any view that you want under the sun..you can hate mj...you can hate madonna...because they are public figures....
but we must respect each other because we are all part of the org community...even if we disagree or dislike each others views.....we can not call each other's names...we cant tell another to "go fuck themselves"...you just have to agree to disagree..... mmm-kay? and stop calling people's views ignorant or narrowminded...how the hell does that give you credibility when your voicing your side of the debate? come on now... Ok hey, dont forget to lick the backside....WAP!! Space for sale... | |
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sosgemini said: im sorry but how did you reach that conclussion from my statement...stop being petty dude just because i disagree with you....
Maybe you'd better read your post again. To call someone's lifestyle (of which, lets face it, we only know so much about) "perverse" and "unhealthy" just because it doesn't comply with what you consider acceptable suggests you're not in favour of individualism. | |
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OdysseyMiles said: Individuality is a good thing and it's important, but having the common sense to know that some things are inappropriate is also important in terms of living a healthy life.
Folk keep using this word, but if no child has come to any harm, then what, in fact is inappropriate? | |
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Cloudbuster said: OdysseyMiles said: Individuality is a good thing and it's important, but having the common sense to know that some things are inappropriate is also important in terms of living a healthy life.
Folk keep using this word, but if no child has come to any harm, then what, in fact is inappropriate? no harm? look at the harm to mj.....good grief!! 
look at the harm that his children are going to have to endure...madonna is just as famous as mj and her children arent forced to wear cloths over their heads...those children will never have normal lives....yet madonna's kids do... and people keep talking about no other child has been raised similiarly to mj..bullshit.. jodie foster liz taylor the osmonds mac kulkin and none of them slept with kids to try to regain their childhoods....only lonesome lil mj... i believe in individualism cloudbuster...but if a person is a "cutter"....should i allow them to continue to cut themselves simply because it alleviates the pain that they feel? drug addicts use drugs to alleviate whatever pain they feel..... well, mj sleeps with lil boys because it alleviates the pain and loss he feels for not having a childhood... am i judging michael jackson's actions? nope...but like an addict, you have to accept the consiquences of your actions..be it a lost job, loss of relationships.... mj has to take ownership for his actions...and this trial is one of them...and he needs to get help. only then will he be able to accept who he is and be a happy and productive human... Space for sale... | |
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sosgemini said: ...stuff...
I wasn't asking about Mike. The guy was clearly damaged back in the 70s. We all try to compensate for our losses, and what gives us the right to sit in judgement (and yes, you are doing so, or else why even say what you've said) on the behaviour of others when they're (probably) doing no harm to other folk. And we can all spout as much "MJ should do this" and "MJ should do that" crap, but nothing we say is gonna change him. And you ought to stop making it sound as if he's luring children into his bedroom night after night. I doubt (and I'm sure you do, too) that that's the case. And to suggest he is not productive is simply ludicrous, the guy has been working all his life. And isn't really relevant anyway. | |
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Cloudbuster said: And you ought to stop making it sound as if he's luring children into his bedroom night after night. I doubt (and I'm sure you do, too) that that's the case.
I don't necessarily think that's the case either, but would it hurt for him to say no to a kid? Would it hurt for a brotha to stop and think about what the repercussions might be? I don't care if it's MJ, Wesley Snipes or Leon Isaac Kennedy. Would it be the end of the world if a 46-year-old man decided not to sleep with young boys or hold their hands? Of course not. He wouldn't be in court either. | |
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Cloudbuster said: sosgemini said: ...stuff...
I wasn't asking about Mike. The guy was clearly damaged back in the 70s. We all try to compensate for our losses, and what gives us the right to sit in judgement (and yes, you are doing so, or else why even say what you've said) on the behaviour of others when they're (probably) doing no harm to other folk. And we can all spout as much "MJ should do this" and "MJ should do that" crap, but nothing we say is gonna change him. And you ought to stop making it sound as if he's luring children into his bedroom night after night. I doubt (and I'm sure you do, too) that that's the case. And to suggest he is not productive is simply ludicrous, the guy has been working all his life. And isn't really relevant anyway. a productive human...sure he is productive entertainer..but you can be the most successful business person in the world and still be a lost soul because you arent geeting the mental help you deserve...i read a very interesting article in details a few months back about the extemely high suicide rate of succesful men.....with mj, i get the impression all this justification thats been done on his behalf just might lead to that... and why should i stop sharing my view on the issue? this is a forum for discussion, is it not? or should these threads only be for mj fans to justify his behavior and actions? and once again, i am not judging him..im only voicing my take on the situation..if i were judging him i'd be condemning him to hell..no, i just wanna see the guy get help..... you dont...and i respectfully disagree...  Space for sale... | |
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There's some tension in this thread.  |
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Marrk said: There's some tension in this thread.
no, just civilized debating between friendly folks....folks who dont take things personal and get all pissy because we disagree with each other... Space for sale... | |
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sosgemini said: i just wanna see the guy get help.....
I know why you think that but how and where could he get help anonymously? Really? He's frigging MJ, not just some nobody. Wouldn't entering a clinic somewhere then that fact getting splashed all over the papers and tv worldwide be painted as indicitive of his 'guilt'. consider this, he's done nothing wrong and 1993 onwards has been (as he would put it) 'a big lie'. Is that not possible?  [Edited 6/1/05 11:23am] |
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sosgemini said: Cloudbuster said: Folk keep using this word, but if no child has come to any harm, then what, in fact is inappropriate? no harm? look at the harm to mj.....good grief!!
look at the harm that his children are going to have to endure...madonna is just as famous as mj and her children arent forced to wear cloths over their heads...those children will never have normal lives....yet madonna's kids do... Erm think not - let's see how far MJ would get cycling around central London or hyde park - fame in the same era not as famous though!! |
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OdysseyMiles said: I don't necessarily think that's the case either, but would it hurt for him to say no to a kid? Would it hurt for a brotha to stop and think about what the repercussions might be? I don't care if it's MJ, Wesley Snipes or Leon Isaac Kennedy. Would it be the end of the world if a 46-year-old man decided not to sleep with young boys or hold their hands? Of course not. He wouldn't be in court either.
As for his anonymity while seeking help... he wouldn't have to necessarily check into a clinic (yet). He can see a professional on a regular basis. They're legally bound to be discreet and many celebrities have therapist and we're none the wiser unless they talk about it. Heck, how can anyone be in entertainment and not have some sort of outlet? Been gone for a minute, now I'm back with the jump off | |
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Marrk said: sosgemini said: i just wanna see the guy get help.....
I know why you think that but how and where could he get help anonymously? Really? He's frigging MJ, not just some nobody. Wouldn't entering a clinic somewhere then that fact getting splashed all over the papers and tv worldwide be painted as indicitive of his 'guilt'. Who cares. He's no better than anyone else. If you need help, seek it out and get it. What's more important, getting help for a problem (if he has one) or worrying about his rep? Marrk said: consider this, he's done nothing wrong and 1993 onwards has been (as he would put it) 'a big lie'. Is that not possible?
I do believe that's possible. It's possible that MJ has done nothing illegal or morally wrong. That doesn't change the fact that MJ has failed to have a balanced view towards his association with children. | |
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sosgemini said: Cloudbuster said: Folk keep using this word, but if no child has come to any harm, then what, in fact is inappropriate? look at the harm that his children are going to have to endure...madonna is just as famous as mj and her children arent forced to wear cloths over their heads...those children will never have normal lives....yet madonna's kids do... and people keep talking about no other child has been raised similiarly to mj..bullshit.. jodie foster liz taylor the osmonds mac kulkin and none of them slept with kids to try to regain their childhoods....only lonesome lil mj... Those people hardly compare. One step outside the US and they will barely be recognised. MJ is a worldwide phenomenom. The circumstances are incredibly unique. There's no-one who can get mobbed in over a 100 countries like him. Except maybe Bush, only he would mobbed by people who want him dead in most of those places... PEACE! Music, sweet music, I wish I could caress and...kiss, kiss... | |
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