Sighhh....

I keep forgetting why I love music so much.

Isn't Joni's Blue an album that just is there when you need it? And oh my, I need it.

Little Green came on and I just felt all unease flow away. It is the song that she wrote for the daughter she gave up for adoption. It is a song that embraces all the good wishes/advice she bestows on her daughter...

Man! How some songs in various stages in your life take on new meaning! I feel so comforted... for the first time in some days...

I will sleep fine on this...

I can't believe you started this thread. I was going to start a similar one. I've been listening to Joni a LOT over the past few months, and in fact listened to Blue as I went running today.

The note she hits at the end of "California", brings tears to my eyes every time, as does "Little Green".

And I'm not an emotional person at all.

minneapolisgenius said:

I am at times. I am good at keeping them at bay.

But when they get out, they lash. I feel a good ole crying coming on.


Joni

HamsterHuey said:

I am constantly! And I know what you mean about really NEEDING music at times. That's what Tori's been for me this year.

GangstaFam said:

TORI

I just bought Joni's Both Sides Now last week. Haven't listened yet. But maybe I will tonight.

GangstaFam said:

Oh my... a complicated way of getting into Joni. Up and down and all around...

Moved on over to Clouds (just Both Sides Now), next is Court & Spark

HamsterHuey said:

Oh, I'm already into her. Have been for several years. I just don't have everything yet. Haven't made it to the obsessive phase yet.

So far I've got her debut, Ladies of the Canyon, Clouds, Blue, Court & Spark, Hissing..., Hejira, Travelogue and Both Sides Now.

This is my ultimate Joni playlist on my IPOD. I call it TRAVELOGUE and it starts with Joni being "a defector from the petty wars" from Hejira to ending the journey by deciding to go back to California and start this crazy "love" thing all over again...

Hejira
Down to you
Coyote
Cold Blue Steel and Sweet Fire
Court and Spark
Help Me
Car on a Hill
People's Parties
Same Situation
The Hissing of Summer Lawns
Don't Interrupt the Sorrow
Black Crow
Refugee of the Roads
This Flight Tonight
The Last Time I saw Richard
All I want
Carey
Blue
River
A Case of You
Both Sides Now
California

I LOVE JONI...

GangstaFam said:

Kewl! I can not remember us discussing her! You have a nice list of Joni must-haves!

I type in exclamation!

HamsterHuey said:

Not sure that we have, although I'm surprised you didn't know I liked her.

Plan on filling in with For the Roses, Mingus and Don Juan next.

OH and where is bratchild? She has some killer Joni stories to tell.

GangstaFam said:

Joni was one of the few artists whose music I've had the pleasure to introduce to TRON. I actually knew her ~ way back ~ before most of you were born. My friends and I had a coffee house in Port Huron, Michigan called The Celler ~ Joni was one of the artists (and by far the most popular) who performed there. She was married at the time to Chuck Mitchell who was from our area. After the sets Joni, the kids who ran The Celler and a few select friends would sit around these old electric wire cable tables with candles dripping wax down Chianti bottles drinking terrible coffee and talk for hours. She would frequently play our spot on Friday and a Detroit house on Saturday night. (I believe it the Detroit place was called the Checkmate). She sings about it in one of her songs. It was an amazing time and we all knew she would achieve greatness. Her sense of style, creativity and individuality was very evident even in our young and naive early college years. I remember her saying, after her divorce and a final show here, that she was heading to California and would never come back again. I have a friend with the original tapes of her performances here but he won't allow anyone to listen to them or copy them. Probably why her Song To A Seagull is still one of my favourite albums of hers ~ with Cactus Tree being in my top ten songs. Thanks for the thread Gooey ~ brings back wonderful memories. I've been listening to her a lot lately too. She brings an introspective presence that few artists can. It's great to see all the love for her here.

don't you find that Joni (and to a lesser extent Tori) catches you
off-guard a lot of times.

usually when I've convinced myself that I'm doing just fine and am
not hiding any feelings from myself, her music pierces through me.

mostly when I'm just playing stupid solitaire games on my computer
late at night and have the player on shuffle. And all of a sudden,
a certain song or chord progression almost screams "hey wake up!!,
this is still an issue for you" and totally shows you or makes you
feel what you've been trying to put away.

I don't really know how to explain what I'm trying to say, that's
probably why the description sucks.


PS:
Gangsta, you're going to love "Both Sides Now". It's a little bit
different at first but once you're into it, the album has a very
nice warm atmosphere. Her voice sounds so incredibly warm here.

My favorit track is the title track, which is one of those songs
that I was trying to describe above. I first heard it in a movie
and right there, in the theatre I had tears well in my eyes and
didn't even notice the rest of the film, it just made me think of
so many things.

bratchildsfriend said:

Yes, I remember you telling this a long time ago on the org!
Such a cool story.

IstenSzek said:

Your description is perfect. This happens to me all the time with David Sylvian and Bjork ~ Tori,Joni and Lisa Gerrard too. Especially when driving along the Lake Huron shore late at night ~ no street lights ~ only the moon. One of these songs will come on unexpectedly and it touches a core ~ I agree Isten ~ something that we thought has been long resolved and a certain lyric or chord will open it wide up with no warning. It is one of the most wonderous (and often painful) aspects of music ~ the journey it carries us through. I can't imagine being without it.

bratchildsfriend said:

I'll hold him down, you steal the tapes.

But seriously, he's sitting on a goldmine there. To catch an artist pre-fame in such an intimate setting is a rare thing indeed. He should stop being so selfish and give up the goods. The longer time goes on, the more those tapes will deteriorate. And no matter what he thinks about bootlegs or whatnot, he should still share with a good friend like you. You were there!

Incidentally, do you remember what you guys used to talk about? Did you get along with her? Was she cool?

IstenSzek said:

You description doesn't suck at all. In fact, it hit me square between the eyes about a Tori story I have. I think only bratchild knows it, and I'm pretty private concerning what it's about. But since the people on this thread I know will know what I'm talking about, I think I'll share. Just give me a minute to collect myself before I spill my guts.

GangstaFam said:

She was cool ~ very intelligent and had an attitude ~ like she knew she was talented and was going to persure her career her way. It was the beginning of the women's rights movement (manifesting itself in a lot of sexual exploration by many of my female friends) as well as the US involvement in the Vietnam War, a lot of racial and polital tension, finally, recognition that not everyone was heterosexual and a LOT of drugs ~ these topis were the focus of our conversations. It was a tremendously exciting time for exchange of ideas and new, innovative music was the most significant messenger of the times. She was incredibly passionate about her ideals but in a sophisticated and creative way that captured people's attention. She quickly became so popular that larger cities discovered her and she would return to us less and less. The last time I saw her was in London, Ontario shortly before she left for the West Coast and it was such a large crowd we couldn't even get close enough to say hello.

bratchildsfriend said:

Damn, I wish she'd tour again. Can you imagine talking with her after all these years? How long has it been?

How often did she play at your coffee shop? How many times did you see her? Was it really casual?

Sorry, 20 questions I know. But it's been awhile since we've talked about it and it's always fascinating to hear.

IstenSzek said:

Perfect desription. I have been going through bouts of insomnia combined with reality dreams, so I was dead tired, wired and ready to collapse.

Then Little Green comes on.

WHAM!

Slept like a log, btw.

bratchildsfriend said:

I can't believe you got to hang out with Joni Mitchell. Damn. What a cool story.

Okay, you guys have kindly urged me, so I'm gonna share my Tori story. It's a bit long and meandering, but just bare with me.

It was the holiday season, end of 2003. My brother was in South Africa for a month and I was at my parents for 3 weeks from about the middle of December until the first week of January. For the most part, the time with my family was pleasant and uneventful in a good way. Most of you that know me know that I'm a bit of a night owl. But at the time, I was going to bed around 1 or 2 in the morning - quite early for me. The problem was, I would wake up a few hours later wide awake and unable to get back to sleep. This started happening every night. And after awhile, it started to get to me. I started doing a lot of soul searching and at times felt like I was losing my mind. And I had no idea why. It got worse and worse with each day to the point that I could almost anticipate when I'd wake up and the nightmares I'd have. A mental block? Maybe. But if felt like something more.

In the middle of the night when I'd wake up, I would quietly sit in my room and find things to do to settle myself down. I had gotten hardcore into Tori again after a 4 year dry spell with her. I really hadn't listened to her at all in that time. I was filling in the gaps with the material I'd missed and was especially focused on the b-sides. So many times, I would just sit there listening to her on my computer while playing computer solitaire. A mind numbing exercise. But it didn't work that way. I found myself drawn to her song "Cooling". I had been doing a lot of reading of her lyrics and quotes and whatnot, so I became really in tune with 'Tori-speak' during that period. I could pretty much decode whatever it was she was talking/singing about. At least I felt that I could. Several nights in a row, I would just play this song over and over and over again until it became sort of a mantra for me. I won't go into the whole song's meaning, but when I first locked into this part, something happened to me.

And peggy got a message for me
From jesus
And I’ve heard every word that you have said
And I know I have been driven like the snow

This is cooling
Faster than I can

Something about those words, and the way she sang them, in that melody with those piano parts behind them absolutely shredded me into a million pieces. When I really *heard* the song for the first time, I couldn't stop crying. Like the kind of crying where you can't even see anything, you're crying so hard. I don't know if any of you have ever had this happen before, but I felt so in unison with this artist at this time that I actually felt like I was turning into this song. And a few others by her too. I know, abstract right? But that's the best way I can describe it. I was so overly tired and emotional and burned out that I didn't even feel like a human or an animal or a soul anymore. I felt like I WAS this music. And in its own way, it was getting by.

So after these late night sessions, I would go out into the livingroom. A little background. My mother always slept on the couch in the livingroom. My father always slept in the bedroom. She's a night person like me. He's always been a morning person. So I would kinda cross paths with him around 5/6 in the morning. My mom would be on so many psychiatric drugs that we could watch TV and talk without her hearing any of it. Now my dad was a far more emotionally guarded and stable individual than any of the other crazies in my family. But we would just sit there at the kitchen table playing cards, having really deep conversations and just getting to know eachother better than ever, sometimes up to 2 or 3 hours. It felt really cool and special, but I had no idea the importance of it at that time. But now I'm convinced that the time we shared during those late night/early morning hours for those 3 weeks of Christmas break were given to me directly from God. Here's why.

After the holidays I went back to my house about an hour away in Detroit and resumed life as usual. Things quickly returned to normal for me. Or so I thought. I got a call about a month later from my mom saying he had fallen over in bed and was non-responsive. Without getting into all the awful details that followed - he had a stroke and struggled with it for 3 weeks before passing away at the beginning of March. I think I saw him maybe once for a brief visit at my house between the holiday vacation and him dying. So really, my last true and meaningful memories of him being alive and well were those late night talks. And it's all woven together in my mind with that song. It haunts me to this day and might be the single most important piece of music to me. The death of my father and the subsequent deaths of both of my grandmothers, all in less than a year is by far the most painful and grueling thing I've ever gone through. And I really don't feel like I'm over any of it yet.

Now I see that time of struggle at my parents' as a gift, a preparation of what was to come. The first lines of the song say it all for me.

Maybe I didn’t like to hear
But I still can’t believe speed racer is dead
So then I thought I’d make some plans
But fire thought she’d really rather be water instead

You could basically substitute my father's name in for speed racer. That's how I feel. And if you've followed Tori closely and know the background of this song, you know that she considered it for both "Boys for Pele" and "From the Choirgirl Hotel", but she decided it didn't work with either. Pele being her fire album, full of rage and hurt and revenge; and Choirgirl being her water album, full of sorrow, loss and acceptance. The line about fire wanting to be water, that IS me. All the confusion I went through in that time I'm trying to see through and find some peace. The healing process is a tricky thing and I'm learning it all over again. Several times in fact. So when I listen to that song, I'm haunted by what's happened, but also soothed by the message of change and piecing yourself back together.

So Isten, yes I know EXACTLY what you're talking about. It happened to me with "Both Sides Now" by Joni just last night. With "Cooling" I didn't really know the significance it would have for me later and I didn't know what feelings I was supposed to address, but now it's perfectly clear to me. As cheesy as it sounds on paper or casually spoken, I do feel like music has the power to get you through and even save your life. It has for me many times.

tron, thanks for sharing that. as lame as it may come off sounding, i completely understand the rollercoaster ride you were on (and still are on). music...tori's, prince's...has always had a healing effect yet, simultaneously, it often tears up the wounds its just helped to heal.

SassyBritches said:

I think a lot of people that do listen to music as intensely as yourself would understand it. Not lame at all. I know a lot of people who aren't Tori fans look at us lot as emotional basketcases, but you know what? So what? Life sucks. It's hard. And not many artists are brave enough to put it all out there like that. And I'm grateful to her for articulating what is often so very private and untouchable.

And reading over my post, I realize that the way I wrote it, it sounds like I didn't see my father between that Christmas break and his death. I only saw him well once near the end of January. After his stroke, I was by his bedside every day until he finally passed. And that's why that little window of 3 weeks is so important to me now. It's one of those cases of not knowing the significance of something until the time has already gone by.

IstenSzek said:

You need some Kate.

Sometimes a piece of music can touch you, another time it's words coming from a friend.

I love the way that words, music, a voice can grab a person by the soul and shake you awake. Many of Joni's words and music, delivered in THAT voice, has had therapeutic effect on me.
I love the way it works differently for every one. I love people who understand my feelings though, cuz it makes me feel less alone.

Thank you for sharing. I hope that sharing helps you as it has helped me.

This always breaks my heart when I hear you tell it, Nathan. Cooling is the most amazing song and it makes perfect sense the way all of this came together.
Those talks you and your Dad shared were as important to him as they were to you, I'm sure. He was such a kind and gentle man and so non~judgemental. He made people feel very special. I know that you feel you are more like your Mom and I agree but I see a lot of your Dad in you also. Healing is a tricky business and can be very hard work, The problem is we often don't know what to work on to get through. Music is the connector ~ brings the epiphany ~ for many of us. You have a lot of strength and while these events have altered your life forever, you will find the peace you are seeking. Love you bunches ~ give Curtis a hug!