DavidEye said:

yet his albums are still selling far more than madonnas every week, check the soundscan sales. michael will always be he bigger star to both madonna and prince, even if, right now, it is for child molestation charges (sad, but true). madonna only sells to her core fanbase, michael obviously doesn't unless he has 7 million solid fans, cos none of his albums have sold less than that. american life, me against the music, will and grace cameo,kabbahla obsession doing great things for her career? i dont think so.
[Edited 5/11/05 4:48am]

hellomoto said:

(sigh) why do MJ fans keep throwing around his record sales,as if that's important at this point? He's currently on trial for molesting a child! He's in serious trouble,and y'all are pretending that he'll be okay as long as his fans continue to buy his records.Are you aware that he could be sentenced to 20 years behind bars?? Does that even matter? Record sales won't matter if he's behind bars.

DavidEye said:

Because despite the efforts of yourself and others who do nothing but focus on the "media" Michael, it's proof that there are enought people willing to overlook the bullshit and focus on the music.

Cloudbuster said:

when you say "overlook the bullshit",what are you referring to? Could it be:

***the numerous surgeries?
***his non-existent nose?
***the skin bleaching?
***the molestation charges from 1993?
***the current molestation charges?
***the fact that he regularly "pays off" parents to stop more lawsuits?
***dangling a baby outside a balcony?
***the fact that he is a grown man who allows young boys to sleep in his bed?
***the career-damaging documentary that he willingly particpated in?


that's a lot to "overlook",dontcha think?

DavidEye said:

More like the most famous woman in the world. IMO at least

DavidEye said:

This is why i have problems listening to his music now in days. His image completely overthrown his music.
You say the name "Michael Jackson" no one thinks of Billie Jean or the moonwalk anymore, they think freak, pervert and all the nasty things he's brought upon himself.
MJ is a superior talent, but don't say he never depended on image. The shit going on today truly proves that image came with the package.

oh STOP it!!!! I am sick and tired of having to hear all this shit over and over again.

dag said:

it certainly cannot be ignored considering half of that list is paraded to court every day

DavidEye said:

I don't care about his surgeries. It's his face, he can do what the hell he wants. Most have been exaggerated anyway, which i'm sure you're aware of. I don't believe he bleaches his skin, either. I've seen enough evidence (right here on the internet) to suggest that he indeed suffers from vitiligo. And why wouldn't he? He's a human (yes folks, he really is) so he's as succeptible to it as anyone else. The molestation charges are most likely the result of money hungry wankers who want to exploit his eccentricities and take advantage of his generosity. Dangling a baby over a balcony is not commendable behaviour, but I'm sure you've made plenty of mistakes in your life as well. He has sleep overs with youngsters. Wow! Since when was there an age limit put on friendships?
And I think you know that the documentary was distorted. Not that it mattered, the sales of his back catalogue soared after it was shown.

You and everyone else can focus on his trial by media while in the privileged position of your own anonymity. I'll stick to the music.


.
[Edited 5/11/05 6:21am]

dag said:

Blame Michael for that.He brought all this stuff on himself.You can't keep blaming the media.

DavidEye said:

No. I'll blame the people who can't get over it after almost 20 years.

namepeace said:

Cloudbuster said:

they can't get over it because he keeps on doing controversial things. Whether it's a new surgery, baby dangling, or his newest court case how do you expect people to get over it when he keeps doing something new.
Had he been stable after 93, im sure people would have put it behind them but he continues to make an ass of himself

jayaredee said:

it's almost as if he is deliberately trying to destroy his life and career.I've never seen an artist self-destruct the way he has.

DavidEye said:

Yeah, right! I think what you mean is that the media can't deal with an eccentric so they've gotta destroy him.

Goodness help anyone who doesn't conform to what society deems standard or "normal" behaviour.

Cloudbuster said:

I didn't know dangling a baby, cutting off your nose and wearing pajamas to court was eccentric.
Well excuse me, MJ seems totally normal now that this shit's been cleared up.

jayaredee said:

DavidEye said:

That argument can be made, sure. But I doubt that Madonna's fame exceeds or even equals Michael's. Michael is famous in more parts of the world than Madonna (or so I reckon). Michael, at the height of his popularity, was more famous than Madonna ever was. He was transcendent. Madonna was very famous.

Cloudbuster said:

I still listen to MJ's great music. I consider THAT MJ to be no more.

He's not the same person, physically, mentally, or artistically, that I remember.

He's like Elvis that way.

I agree. I like Madonna and her music. However, she really doesn't hav a lot of talent and being controversial and skanky was and still somewhat is her way of selling records. Michael Jackson didn't have to do that. He is a incredible performer, dancer and singer(good not great) so people saw him for his talent.





I know.
[Edited 5/11/05 9:22am]

Michael is the second most famous person in the world. 99 percent of the world knows who he is.

BoOTyLiCioUs said:

LOL! Come the fuck on! SHOW ME WHERE YOU CAN PROVE 99% OF THE WORLD KNOWS WHO MJ IS?

LoL. Come on. Everyone knows who he is and has aleast heard of his music. I read that wikipedia.com I think. I remember reading it somewhere. I'll see if I can find it.

namepeace said:

Well, I'm glad he's changed artistically. If folk want all his music to sound like Off The Wall & Thriller then they should go and buy themselves more copies of Off The Wall & Thriller. I'm happy enough with the music he's made since.

Cloudbuster said:

It's not his sound. Sounds change. I liked songs like "Remember The Time," "Scream," and "Butterflies." It's who he has become. It's not being able to look at the man anymore for what he has done to himself. It's not being able to stomach his stupidity in word and deed.

Lookit, that's just my opinion. To me, he's not the same charismatic, handsome, electrifying presence he once was. He's not the same strong, confident presence who I watched and even admired as a child. I mean, my Lord, he doesn't even look the same.

I think you know this is about more than his music. But that's a matter of my personal tastes and opinion. I know that.
[Edited 5/11/05 10:09am]

namepeace said:

Okay, ignore, if you can, the trimmed down nose and the chin cleft. What if there was proof on the table in front of you that Michael actually does have vitiligo. Would that make it any easier to look at him? Is it just because he's no longer black? If your basing your prejudices on his looks alone then that really says more about you than it does about Michael. Personally, I see nothing wrong with people having surgery to alter their appearance if they're unhappy with the way they look. Vitiligo, however, is a different thing altogether. If he genuinely does have it (and I really think he does) then I think it's a little unfair to criticize him for looking the way he does.

WHAT WOULDN'T HAPPEN IF SOME OTHER STAR WENT TO NAMBIA in africa


Michael mania' grips Windhoek

THE Nambian

CHRISPIN INAMBAO, JEAN SUTHERLAND AND GRAHAM HOPWOOD

INTERNATIONAL superstar Michael Jackson arrived to a rapturous welcome in Windhoek yesterday as hundreds of people flocked to the airport to greet their idol, while thousands of others thronged the city centre to catch a glimpse of the singing legend.

Namibia experienced its first glimpse of pop hysteria as crowds screaming out "Michael, Michael" and "Michael we love you" mobbed the star wherever he went.

From the airport to the city centre to Katutura for many it was a dream come true. Some wept, some swooned, others could just not believe their eyes.

They came on crutches, young and old - toddlers, trendily-dressed youngsters, the middle-aged and the elderly; fans and celebrity-gawkers; from Pionierspark, Klein Windhoek, Katutura and Khomasdal; some climbed trees, others lamp posts for this once in a lifetime chance to see the King of Pop.

According to unconfirmed reports, one woman at the airport was so overcome by the moment that she started stripping off her clothes; and, according to another, Finance Minister Nangolo Mbumba was knocked over by the perpetually surging crowd.

It was an outpouring of emotion and fan frenzy not witnessed before in the Namibian capital.

A sign of things to come was first witnessed at Hosea Kutako International Airport, where Prime Minister Hage Geingob and a number of other Ministers and top Government officials were also on hand to welcome the King of Pop.

Chaos reigned as ecstatic fans ignored flimsy security arrangements to surge on to the tarmac close to where Jackson's plane had landed.

When the superstar, sporting his trademark dark glasses and a black hat, finally disembarked from the plane, the crowd kept pressing forward and could not be restrained by human chains formed by the Police to keep them at bay.

Some fans held aloft placards welcoming Jackson, some of which stated "We Love You Michael"; others brandished posters - torn from magazines or lovingly made personal drawings and montages of their hero.

T-shirts with pictures of Jackson and which proclaimed "The King Of Pop" were also in evidence. Touchingly, prior to the touchdown a couple of young street children who managed to make it to the airport were pictured straightening out each other's clothing.

As Jackson emerged into the bright Namibian sunlight, his bodyguards and other security officials formed a tight security circle around the star, with the security detail unfurling three umbrellas to shield him from the sun. Immediately after a bouquet of flowers was presented to Jackson, the crowd all but went out of control as they tried to get a closer look as the Police struggled to keep the shoving, surging mass of people back.

It was a smile and a wave, and then Jackson was bundled into a metallic grey Chevrolet as hundreds of fans chased his vehicle across the runway before his cavalcade finally left the airport compound.

A few hours after jetting into Windhoek, Jackson went to State House for an audience with President Sam Nujoma, before having a light lunch with the head of state.

Meanwhile, the crowds had gathered in Independence Avenue which had been abuzz since early morning as people gathered to await the arrival of Jackson, initially scheduled for 11h00.

Although the appearance of the star was delayed by two hours and 40 minutes, people remained good-natured and bantered among each other, although each time there was even a hint that Jackson might appear screams erupted and people stormed the street.

Traffic vehicles which made sporadic forays down the streets were greeted with cheers - although the crowds were more wary of security officials on foot with sniffer dogs - and a group of youngsters positioned on a balcony kept up the chant of "We Want Michael".

A few took the chance to show off their dancing skills as they imitated Jackson's trademark dancing. "He should do his moondance on the meteorites in Post Street Mall," suggested one imaginative Windhoeker.

When the King of Pop finally made his entrance at the head of Independence Avenue on the back of an open black Land Rover 110, it was pure populist frenzy as emotions spilled over and people thrust forward.

Jackson appeared to be swept down the street on the shoulders of the crowd which by this time had taken on a life of its own as people tried to mob his cavalcade.

After Jackson's Post Street Mall walkabout was cancelled because of security fears, it came as something of as a surprise when Jackson descended from the Land Rover opposite a popular city restaurant about half-way down Independence Avenue and braved a brief walkabout, sparking even greater frenzy.

One fan managed to dart through the crowd, sneak past the bodyguards and get up close and personal to hug the superstar.

After getting back on his vehicle, Jackson threw a number of bouquets to people and also picked up a child from the crowd for a personal greeting.

As the cavalcade hit the end of Independence Avenue and prepared for its journey to the Soweto market in Katutura, the crowd continued its journey alongside and behind the superstar, following their Pied Piper.

Stragglers in the city centre milled around assimilating the occasion. Jackson might have left the immediate vicinity, but the aura of excitement remained.

"My daughter wants to go to America with Michael," a father with the three-year toddler on his shoulders told The Namibian.

Said a young professional: "I don't know why I came today. I'm going to meet him at the Prime Minister's reception tomorrow. But something drove me here. I just had to see him before then."

Another young man appeared to be both bemused and excited. "All this, just for another human being, although he's a star," exclaimed Benny Jacobs.

"What do you think would happen if Jesus Christ came?" he asked.

Similar scenes of mass excitement gripped Katutura, where thousands more fans had turned out.

Jackson could not enter the Soweto market as planned because of the massive sea of fans which had congregated there, blocking the the entrance.



May 18, 1998




HUGE!!!

Cloudbuster said:[quote]

namepeace said:

I can sympathize with Michael's medical condition, I doubt that it required him to bleach himself, and I can't see how anyone could justify the way he has mutilated himself beyond all recognition.



That's a crock of shit and you know much better than that.

I don't like what he did to himself because it was unnecessary. This is more than plastic surgery. This is not thin Elvis/fat Elvis. This involves a man who lost all judgment and perspective and destroyed virtually everything on his body.

For the love of Jesus Cloudbuster! Look at what he DID to himself! It's tragic!

It happens to white superstars who inject their lips and tan themselves beyond all recognition too, you know. YOU made this a race issue. I'm making it a choice issue.

I'm mad at what he did to HIMSELF. I'm angry with him for the fact that he did what he didn't have to do and put his life at risk. But hey, if that kind of self-mutilation doesn't bother you, fine. If you want to defend or countenance that kind of behavior, fine.




See above. If you've got 3d-degree burns you get skin grafts. If a female has breast cancer she might need reconstructive surgery to restore her chest. Michael went beyond that. He had surgery and procedures done that a) weren't related to his medical condition, and b) were way out of proportion to address the disease.

You look at the man and tell me. . . if he were your friend, would you let him do that to himself? Isn't it reasonable to assume that what he's done could take years off his life?

I'm not criticizing someone who had these problems thrust upon him at birth or by his genetic makeup. I'm lamenting the sad fact that someone has utterly destroyed his body irreversibly.

And that's my opinion. Just because I refuse to think the man looks good and I prefer to remember him as he was doesn't make me prejudiced and it's just plain-ass silly to imply otherwise.

In any event, read my comments carefully. I have problems with what he's done, even moreso than how he looks.
[Edited 5/11/05 13:00pm]

i agree with cloudy... (woa...)


Plus Jackson only changed his appearence because he thought he was ugly...
talk about pressure from the world...

Don't blame him...
Blame Society
Its not like he's the only one

Millions of people wan't to fit into this template that society places...
and they have plastic surgeyr
is it ever necessary?
No
But when magazine T.V. keep telling you should be thinner... your nose should be thinner
the creation of perfection is sought!

The Monster that is Michael Jackson was created by us
face it...
and now we can no longer look at him,
His ventures went horribly wrong...
But his sins reflect off the vanity of the world

I relate to him, cause i myself wanted to fit in that template...
wanted to shorten my nose have other types of surgery...
but luckily i had the strength to overcome that nonesense
some people are just not that strong

Its hard whenever you look in the mirror and all you see is "Yuck"
but you can't blame them...
open up a magazine...
and the see the brainwashing at first hand

this isn't a defense of Jackson
Just one for all people like him.
we all have insecurities
[Edited 5/11/05 13:31pm]

Luv4oneanotha said:

I couldn't possibly disagree more. Michael Jackson doesn't lose accountability for his own decisions just because he is Michael Jackson. Shouldn't he (and WE) have learned that by NOW?)

And society didn't tell this man he was ugly. PLEASE! He was loved and adored by women before he hit 3rd frickin' grade! His FAMILY told him that. His disgust for his FATHER told him that. But somehow, somewhere, despite all the adulation, all the fame, all the money, he decided HE could do that to himself.

This man had every reason to believe he was a handsome man. But he gave in to what he thought was a) the better look, and b) the look that was most unlike his father's.

Do social conventions and the stigma of race have anything to do with it? SURE! But ultimately, the individual has to make the choice as to whether to cut himself up in service to those conventions. And there are precious few excuses one can make for this man, with all of his fame, fortune, talent, good looks, and charisma, to do what he did. There were alternatives open to him and he shunned them. Those who claimed to love and support him were, and are, in the end, only enablers.

I hope this doesn't cost him his life someday.