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namepeace said: LightOfArt said: I rate Dangerous a higher than Off The Wall, Thriller and Bad. And not to mention Dangerous is far more diverse than all of them. And it sold more than Bad and Off The Wall 
And I DO give Q his props. It was him who was able to get the best musicians on MJ albums. Van Halen for example. and great songwriters ofcourse But what made Michael Jackson a legend are the songs he wrote himself. And listening to the earliest demos of those songs simply prove Q had very little to nothing input in those... If Quincy was the producer on Dangerous, you'd love Dangerous just as much. It's just you don't want to give MJ props for his musical talent. Quincy does though  I think Michael Jackson sucks as a musician, a writer, and an entertainer. Isn't it obvious?
Quincy wouldn't have worked with MJ if MJ sucked. And MJ wouldn't have worked with Quincy unless he knew Quincy could help him define his career. So it worked out for both of them, huh? I love the Q-sounding tracks on Dangerous, i.e., Remember The Time. The rest of the album sounds pretty dated to me. In any event, the reason Dangerous sold more than OTW was because, of course, he had built up a devoted following on the strength of OTW, Thriller, and to a lesser extent, Bad, albums that were produced by . . . oh. well, you know. Dangerous also sold more than Bad because of the fact that MJ was hyping the angle of going in a new direction with his music and he had latched on to the hot new producers of the day. Much of the great Off The Wall material, including "Rock With You" and "Off The Wall," was written by Rod Temperton. As was "Thriller," So all the songs that made MJ a legend weren't written exclusively by MJ. And do you think the great songs he did write would have become legendary without Q behind the boards? Me neither. No one doubts MJ's abilities. He is a great singer, a talented songwriter, and, at least, WAS, an almost-unparalleled performer before he decided to mutilate himself so bad as to become unwatchable. But Quincy is a big, BIG reason for his success. Those 2 facts are NOT mutually exclusive. [Edited 5/10/05 11:25am] Stop smoking man... 
Who writes : Heartbreak Hotel Who writes : Billie Jean Who Writes : Don't stop till you get enough Who writes : Beat it Who write : Wanna be startin something Who writes : Girl is mine Who writes : Bad Who writes : The Way You Make Me Feel Who writes : I just can't stop lovin you Who writes : Black or White etc... Quincy Jones ??? And go listen to the Billie Jean demo or Don't stop till you get enough demo, MJ did 99 % of the job.... |
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krayzie said: Eroticist said: I'd have to easily say Prince. If you took "Thriller" away from MJ...does he get the high powered producers for his next project "Bad"? MJ woulda been solid after "Off The Wall" but I don't think he woulda been anywhere near as huge as he was had 'Thriller' never dropped and blew up.
Prince was already making a strong go of it with the success of "DM", "Controversy" and "1999"..."Purple Rain" gave him access to MORE people but his musical talents were already starting to get some recognition and heat. Plus, after 'Thriller'...MJ started to slowly lose sight of reality. Difficult to compare.... DM, Controversy weren't as successful as you say... Plus you forget that Mike released Destiny and Triumph with his brothers... Prince released his first masterpiece album in 1982 with 1999... Since then 1999 still remains his second biggest selling album of his career...(4x platinum) Do you believe that... This album has sold more than Sign O the Times ... Love sexy was his first big flop and was released only 4 years after Purple Rain... But they were critical successes and he was already a proven force to be reckoned with by the time PR came around. His longevity was already showing. That's why I keep saying i don't think people in here are TRULY able to take away 'Thriller'...cuz they still see MJ as Thriller and THEN he blew the fuck up. Desire, it covers our faces
It happens in curious places Your body, it covers my tower Ecstasy is ours | |
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LightOfArt said: Eroticist said: If it's a waste of time...leave. no Then stay and deal with it then. Desire, it covers our faces
It happens in curious places Your body, it covers my tower Ecstasy is ours | |
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What's so wong with a little collaborative effort anyway from time to time. Who's to say Prince wouldn't definately have benefitted from a little of that over the years.
Prince might well be diverse, but he still sounds 'samey' to some people. |
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Eroticist said: krayzie said: Difficult to compare.... DM, Controversy weren't as successful as you say... Plus you forget that Mike released Destiny and Triumph with his brothers... Prince released his first masterpiece album in 1982 with 1999... Since then 1999 still remains his second biggest selling album of his career...(4x platinum) Do you believe that... This album has sold more than Sign O the Times ... Love sexy was his first big flop and was released only 4 years after Purple Rain... But they were critical successesand he was already a proven force to be reckoned with by the time PR came around. His longevity was already showing. That's why I keep saying i don't think people in here are TRULY able to take away 'Thriller'...cuz they still see MJ as Thriller and THEN he blew the fuck up. You say it... Prince is maybe the best rated artist I never seen... PS : Seriously, Do you think people are TRULY able to take away Purple rain thinking about Prince... |
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krayzie said: Stop smoking man...
Who writes : Heartbreak Hotel Who writes : Billie Jean Who Writes : Don't stop till you get enough Who writes : Beat it Who write : Wanna be startin something Who writes : Girl is mine Who writes : Bad Who writes : The Way You Make Me Feel Who writes : I just can't stop lovin you Who writes : Black or White etc... Quincy Jones ??? And go listen to the Billie Jean demo or Don't stop till you get enough demo, MJ did 99 % of the job.... Are you listening? Are your eardrums open for christening? Apparently not. Here's what I said: Much of the great Off The Wall material, including "Rock With You" and "Off The Wall," was written by Rod Temperton. As was "Thriller," So all the songs that made MJ a legend weren't written exclusively by MJ.
And do you think the great songs he did write would have become legendary without Q behind the boards? Me neither. I think you need to read the last paragraph of my last post again. If you believe that Quincy isn't a big reason for MJ's success, then you musta passed that pipe right to me, huh? Hell, just look at the timeline. MJ's career took off when he hooked up with QJ. HELLO? Damn, son, quit jockin' MJ like he's the guy in your avatar. He's great. But he's not a self-made legend. He didn't produce or write ALL of his stuff. That don't make him any less of a legend. That is just the truth. [Edited 5/10/05 12:08pm] Good night, sweet Prince | 7 June 1958 - 21 April 2016
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namepeace said: krayzie said: Stop smoking man...
Who writes : Heartbreak Hotel Who writes : Billie Jean Who Writes : Don't stop till you get enough Who writes : Beat it Who write : Wanna be startin something Who writes : Girl is mine Who writes : Bad Who writes : The Way You Make Me Feel Who writes : I just can't stop lovin you Who writes : Black or White etc... Quincy Jones ??? And go listen to the Billie Jean demo or Don't stop till you get enough demo, MJ did 99 % of the job.... Are you listening? Are your eardrums open for christening? Apparently not. Here';s what I said: Much of the great Off The Wall material, including "Rock With You" and "Off The Wall," was written by Rod Temperton. As was "Thriller," So all the songs that made MJ a legend weren't written exclusively by MJ.
And do you think the great songs he did write would have become legendary without Q behind the boards? Me neither. If you believe that Quincy isn't a big reason for MJ's success, then you musta passed that pipe right to me, huh? Damn, son, quit jockin' MJ like he's the guy in your avatar. He's great. But he's not a self-made legend. Damn, Have I said that Quincy wasn't a part of his success ??? NOOOOO Stop smockin... But instead you SAID that Michael sucks as a musician, a writer, and an entertainer. Biggest bullshit ever on this board... |
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krayzie said: Eroticist said: But they were critical successesand he was already a proven force to be reckoned with by the time PR came around. His longevity was already showing. That's why I keep saying i don't think people in here are TRULY able to take away 'Thriller'...cuz they still see MJ as Thriller and THEN he blew the fuck up. You say it... Prince is maybe the best rated artist I never seen... PS : Seriously, Do you think people are TRULY able to take away Purple rain thinking about Prince... Um...That's a fair question since I am a pretty hardcore Prince fan. I guess it boils down to perspective, huh? I mean, I can take Prince from PR but MJ fans might not be able to and visa versa. Desire, it covers our faces
It happens in curious places Your body, it covers my tower Ecstasy is ours | |
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krayzie said: Damn, Have I said that Quincy wasn't a part of his success ??? NOOOOO Stop smockin... But instead you SAID that Michael sucks as a musician, a writer, and an entertainer. Biggest bullshit ever on this board... I'd stop "smocking," but smocks I feel are quite the fashion statement. But I digress. It's sad to have to quote yourself because people take your words out of context, but here goes. Now pay attention son. Here's what I said: I think Michael Jackson sucks as a musician, a writer, and an entertainer.
Isn't it obvious? (Psst . . . don't tell nobody, but that's what we call . . . "sarcasm"  .)
Now here's something you may have missed as well: No one doubts MJ's abilities. He is a great singer, a talented songwriter, and, at least, WAS, an almost-unparalleled performer before he decided to mutilate himself so bad as to become unwatchable.
I have said this over and over again in this forum, in many different ways, and YOU YOURSELF have co-signed many of my comments on MJ. and finally . . . MJ was a star before hooking up with Quincy and would have been a star without Quincy, but Quincy really launched him into the stratosphere with his stellar production work. MJ needed someone skillful and versatile like him to really make his songs "go."
Ellington wouldn't have been the same without Strayhorn. Miles wouldn't have been the same without Gil Evans. MJ wouldn't have been the MEGAstar he is without Quincy. Jiminy-Moonwalking-Christmas, WHAT IS SO HARD TO UNDERSTAND ABOUT THE TRUTH? Good night, sweet Prince | 7 June 1958 - 21 April 2016
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Eroticist said: krayzie said: You say it... Prince is maybe the best rated artist I never seen... PS : Seriously, Do you think people are TRULY able to take away Purple rain thinking about Prince... Um...That's a fair question since I am a pretty hardcore Prince fan. I guess it boils down to perspective, huh? I mean, I can take Prince from PR but MJ fans might not be able to and visa versa. Yeah, you're right... But we have to never forget that MJ hasn't released a lot like Prince so maybe this is why they'are more focus on Thriller... But something that I notice about MJ fans is that they don't care much about the pre Thriller era... A lot of them don't know about his albums with his brothers.... Instead Prince fans are very concerned by all his records released before Purple rain... |
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Im an MJ fan of 19 years of age, and im totally concerned with Mikes career pre thriller. Im up on the key albums also. that aint necessarily tru statement you made. MJ fans are Majorly concerned with MJ's albums pre thriller. | |
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You simply can't compare the two...
Career-wise MJ doesn't need Thriller he has his career with his brothers to support him Prince doesn't need Purple Rain cause he acomplished his masterpiece hence Sign O the times The fact is Prince has always been deemed as meager selling version of Michael Jackson it doesn't matter that he's a better musician, better singer, a better producer... the fact that MJ has been in the spotlight all his life makes him a magnet for attention so i have to say Michael Jackson... Music wise... Prince is far superior than MJ (IN MY OWN OPINION) any person who says the opposite is clearly in denial | |
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klhk said: Slash said: How did she pave the way for female artists?! So, there were no successful female artists before her?! This is just a lazy assumption, that is in actual fact insulting to women, as if they needed a Madonna to come and help them out. If baring flesh, wearing "BOY TOY" on her belt and kissing other women in videos is helping other women, then fuck me, pornography must be the most useful tool in femal liberation ever....  well, i agree with you on some of those staments. Madonna IMO, is too talented and I don't think she should have to use sex to sell her records now that she is OLDER, her talent and fanbase around the world should be her gimmick! She does loose cool points for making out with women on TV, IMO, but she has always been freaky and I respect her for that, and she has always loved gay or bisexual men, and that's ok too! She has a large gay fanbase and she can't afford to isolate or loose them. Although she is older she has to stay hip, and maybe even sell out a little, but I think now that she has kids, she really shoudl give up making out with girls on TV....that's just not cool. People get caught up in the image. Madonna has never really been liked by the critics. Those that praised Ray of Light had because there was no way they could deny that it was a good album. No Controversy with it. Madge is the leading female influence in music for the past 23 years. You can't read an interview given to a female artist today and not have the interviewer bring up Madonna. She has books on her social impact in circulation. There are classes devouted to her impact in culture at many universities. The best way to get rating a show is to feature her. She is currently working on an album that will probably sell very well. The reason people on here get so jaded and say that she is sooo acclaimed is the number of Madonna fans on the board. If you go outside of this board you will see that critics don't like her. But hands down Madonna is the biggest star. You CANNOT use the name of God, or religion, to justify acts of violence, to hurt, to hate, to discriminate- Madonna
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ehuffnsd said: But hands down Madonna is the biggest star.
Can't agree with that. Maybe -- MAYBE -- now she is. She is definitely the most enduiring star, having enjoyed a more continuous run than MJ or Prince. But MJ is one of the 5 most famous people in the world. Prince's artistic legacy outshines that of Madonna and MJ. Good night, sweet Prince | 7 June 1958 - 21 April 2016
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Luv4oneanotha said: You simply can't compare the two...
Career-wise MJ doesn't need Thriller he has his career with his brothers to support him Prince doesn't need Purple Rain cause he acomplished his masterpiece hence Sign O the times The fact is Prince has always been deemed as meager selling version of Michael Jackson it doesn't matter that he's a better musician, better singer, a better producer... the fact that MJ has been in the spotlight all his life makes him a magnet for attention so i have to say Michael Jackson... Music wise... Prince is far superior than MJ (IN MY OWN OPINION) any person who says the opposite is clearly in denial Perhaps rather than being in denial, they think their own opinion is equally as valid as yours. Maybe they own pretty much everything both guys have to offer and STILL don't agree with you. How about that? |
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namepeace said: ehuffnsd said: But hands down Madonna is the biggest star.
Can't agree with that. Maybe -- MAYBE -- now she is. She is definitely the most enduiring star, having enjoyed a more continuous run than MJ or Prince. But MJ is one of the 5 most famous people in the world. Prince's artistic legacy outshines that of Madonna and MJ. Prince does outshine them both, especially madonna (stifles with laughter) why the hell is madonna mentioned in this thread! Damn you CLOUDY!!! | |
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Marrk said: Luv4oneanotha said: You simply can't compare the two...
Career-wise MJ doesn't need Thriller he has his career with his brothers to support him Prince doesn't need Purple Rain cause he acomplished his masterpiece hence Sign O the times The fact is Prince has always been deemed as meager selling version of Michael Jackson it doesn't matter that he's a better musician, better singer, a better producer... the fact that MJ has been in the spotlight all his life makes him a magnet for attention so i have to say Michael Jackson... Music wise... Prince is far superior than MJ (IN MY OWN OPINION) any person who says the opposite is clearly in denial Perhaps rather than being in denial, they think their own opinion is equally as valid as yours. Maybe they own pretty much everything both guys have to offer and STILL don't agree with you. How about that? Your an exception! MJ fans don't count... cause your all insane... and i say that with the utmost respect! you know i love ya Mark! | |
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Luv4oneanotha said: Marrk said: Perhaps rather than being in denial, they think their own opinion is equally as valid as yours. Maybe they own pretty much everything both guys have to offer and STILL don't agree with you. How about that? Your an exception! MJ fans don't count... cause your all insane... and i say that with the utmost respect! you know i love ya Mark! Ummm ok. i'll be honest, i can't split them. It's like asking me to pick one testicle over the other, i just can't do it. They're both that important to me. |
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Marrk said: Luv4oneanotha said: Your an exception! MJ fans don't count... cause your all insane... and i say that with the utmost respect! you know i love ya Mark! Ummm ok. i'll be honest, i can't split them. It's like asking me to pick one testicle over the other, i just can't do it. They're both that important to me. thats better, a honest answer! | |
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ehuffnsd said: klhk said: well, i agree with you on some of those staments. Madonna IMO, is too talented and I don't think she should have to use sex to sell her records now that she is OLDER, her talent and fanbase around the world should be her gimmick! She does loose cool points for making out with women on TV, IMO, but she has always been freaky and I respect her for that, and she has always loved gay or bisexual men, and that's ok too! She has a large gay fanbase and she can't afford to isolate or loose them. Although she is older she has to stay hip, and maybe even sell out a little, but I think now that she has kids, she really shoudl give up making out with girls on TV....that's just not cool. People get caught up in the image. Madonna has never really been liked by the critics. Those that praised Ray of Light had because there was no way they could deny that it was a good album. No Controversy with it. Madge is the leading female influence in music for the past 23 years. You can't read an interview given to a female artist today and not have the interviewer bring up Madonna. She has books on her social impact in circulation. There are classes devouted to her impact in culture at many universities. The best way to get rating a show is to feature her. She is currently working on an album that will probably sell very well. The reason people on here get so jaded and say that she is sooo acclaimed is the number of Madonna fans on the board. If you go outside of this board you will see that critics don't like her. But hands down Madonna is the biggest star. After Madonna death I think NOBODY will remember her as a talented artist... No way.... Michael Jackson ?? Yes Prince ?? HELLLLL YEAH !!!!! |
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krayzie said: Eroticist said: Um...That's a fair question since I am a pretty hardcore Prince fan. I guess it boils down to perspective, huh? I mean, I can take Prince from PR but MJ fans might not be able to and visa versa. Yeah, you're right... But we have to never forget that MJ hasn't released a lot like Prince so maybe this is why they'are more focus on Thriller... But something that I notice about MJ fans is that they don't care much about the pre Thriller era... A lot of them don't know about his albums with his brothers.... Instead Prince fans are very concerned by all his records released before Purple rain... Great Points. Desire, it covers our faces
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Eroticist said: krayzie said: Yeah, you're right... But we have to never forget that MJ hasn't released a lot like Prince so maybe this is why they'are more focus on Thriller... But something that I notice about MJ fans is that they don't care much about the pre Thriller era... A lot of them don't know about his albums with his brothers.... Instead Prince fans are very concerned by all his records released before Purple rain... Great Points. You can't count me in that lot. Proud owner of Moving Violation, Joyful Jukebox Music, Forever Michael, The Jacksons, Goin' Places and all the others that came before and after. I love the wilderness years of the mid-seventies.  |
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Luv4oneanotha said: You simply can't compare the two...
Career-wise MJ doesn't need Thriller he has his career with his brothers to support him Prince doesn't need Purple Rain cause he acomplished his masterpiece hence Sign O the times The fact is Prince has always been deemed as meager selling version of Michael Jackson it doesn't matter that he's a better musician, better singer, a better producer... the fact that MJ has been in the spotlight all his life makes him a magnet for attention so i have to say Michael Jackson... Music wise... Prince is far superior than MJ (IN MY OWN OPINION) any person who says the opposite is clearly in denial Elements of what you said were true (aka its your own oppinion). But what you said is arguable im afraid, and it will always be that way. What can conclusively be said without any arguement is that knobody moves or has moved like MJ mayne. | |
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threat said: Luv4oneanotha said: You simply can't compare the two...
Career-wise MJ doesn't need Thriller he has his career with his brothers to support him Prince doesn't need Purple Rain cause he acomplished his masterpiece hence Sign O the times The fact is Prince has always been deemed as meager selling version of Michael Jackson it doesn't matter that he's a better musician, better singer, a better producer... the fact that MJ has been in the spotlight all his life makes him a magnet for attention so i have to say Michael Jackson... Music wise... Prince is far superior than MJ (IN MY OWN OPINION) any person who says the opposite is clearly in denial Elements of what you said were true (aka its your own oppinion). But what you said is arguable im afraid, and it will always be that way. What can conclusively be said without any arguement is that knobody moves or has moved like MJ mayne. The truth is MJ has the bigger career not because of his music but because of his image, which is in shreds and he's still making headlines! good or bad, his career is still huge... i believe his career has overshadowed thriller in many ways! Prince's career in the mainstream is visible now... but before musicology nobody knew where the fuck prince was except us fans! people thought his last record was the gold xperience, with the hit the most beautiful girl in the world! personally i think Prince should have the bigger career... but life's a bitch some times! | |
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Luv4oneanotha said: You simply can't compare the two...
Career-wise MJ doesn't need Thriller he has his career with his brothers to support him Prince doesn't need Purple Rain cause he acomplished his masterpiece hence Sign O the times The fact is Prince has always been deemed as meager selling version of Michael Jackson it doesn't matter that he's a better musician, better singer, a better producer... the fact that MJ has been in the spotlight all his life makes him a magnet for attention so i have to say Michael Jackson... Music wise... Prince is far superior than MJ (IN MY OWN OPINION) any person who says the opposite is clearly in denial Lol. There's no way that Prince is a better singer than Michael. Some of you guys need your heads examined. And your last comment sucks, too. Naturally, like you said, it's a matter of opinion. | |
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Cloudbuster said: Luv4oneanotha said: You simply can't compare the two...
Career-wise MJ doesn't need Thriller he has his career with his brothers to support him Prince doesn't need Purple Rain cause he acomplished his masterpiece hence Sign O the times The fact is Prince has always been deemed as meager selling version of Michael Jackson it doesn't matter that he's a better musician, better singer, a better producer... the fact that MJ has been in the spotlight all his life makes him a magnet for attention so i have to say Michael Jackson... Music wise... Prince is far superior than MJ (IN MY OWN OPINION) any person who says the opposite is clearly in denial Lol. There's no way that Prince is a better singer than Michael. Some of you guys need your heads examined. And your last comment sucks, too. Naturally, like you said, it's a matter of opinion. If you dont agree with Luv4oneanotha, then you're truly delusional  | |
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BoOTyLiCioUs said: Michael may have sold more records than Madonna,but let's be honest...her career is in a healthier state than his is right now.She doesn't have the "baggage" that he is forced to carry around.
 u r obessed with madonna. She has no career now, sorry to break it to u. Funny how Number ones sold 7 million while American Life only sold what 600,000 copies.She has no career anymore? Let's see... ***her 'Reinvention Tour' grossed over $124 million last year,making it one of the year's biggest tours. ***she is NOT on trial right now for molesting a child. ***she is not nearly bankrupt,like SOME pop artists are (not mentioning any names) and I don't know why you keep mentioning Michael's record sales.His sales tell only half the story.The truth is,he's done with,creatively and commercially.He's a media joke now,whether he goes platinum or not. [Edited 5/11/05 4:06am] | |
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LightOfArt said: If you dont agree with Luv4oneanotha, then you're truly delusional
I guess so. | |
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BoOTyLiCioUs said: And what about her sold-out Re-Invention tour, hah?
Maybe because she charged 100-250 dollars for a ticket..thats why it made so much money. We are talkin about Michael Jackson and Prince..not that ugly skank named Madonna. I like Madonna but some people need to get their head out of her ass and not talk about her every thread. But if her career was really "over",there is no way in hell that she could have charged $300 a ticket and STILL manage to sellout large arenas.Get your head out of Michael's ass and face the truth.She is still doing great things with her career while he is on trial facing 20 years for molesting a child.That's the bottom line. | |
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namepeace said: ehuffnsd said: But hands down Madonna is the biggest star.
Can't agree with that. Maybe -- MAYBE -- now she is. She is definitely the most enduiring star, having enjoyed a more continuous run than MJ or Prince. But MJ is one of the 5 most famous people in the world.Prince's artistic legacy outshines that of Madonna and MJ. I'd argue that Madonna is one of the Top 5 most famous women in the world. | |
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