Cheek said:

So much for a woman with no career

Maybe because she charged 100-250 dollars for a ticket..thats why it made so much money. We are talkin about Michael Jackson and Prince..not that ugly skank named Madonna. I like Madonna but some people need to get their head out of her ass and not talk about her every thread.

Maybe because she charged 100-250 dollars for a ticket..thats why it made so much money. We are talkin about Michael Jackson and Prince..not that ugly skank named Madonna. I like Madonna but some people need to get their head out of her ass and not talk about her every thread.

Calling Madonna an ugly skank? Have you seen recent photos of MJ....

Ummm the fact she charged over 100 dollars a ticket and the show sold out like nothing, shows her relevance.
your head is in your ass my dear.

Calling Madonna an ugly skank? Have you seen recent photos of MJ....

Have you seen recent photos of MJ....

Whatever. Madonna's never been good looking. She's ugly. I like her but she is really ugly. Ur the one who has ur head up Madonna's ass.

Uh yeah. He is ugly. He was really good looking but I really don't care.

BoOTyLiCioUs said:

Ummmm how is her looks relevant to her success.
Your head is in your ass, sorry.
Come up with good arguments silly

jayaredee said:

How about her meaningless lyrics?

Her unimaginative vocal phrasing?

Her bland, manly and unmusical voice?

Her lack of decent material in at least 15 years?

The direct, inverse correlation between her low talent and the high praise heaped upon her?


Love her if you want, if you love the iconography of her and the tunes do it for you etc but please don't try and pass her off as a genius.


She's just a trashy teenage girl got lucky and bluffed her way through the rest of her career.

WHAT!? madonna is a LEGEND!!!! That's why her fanbase is solid and continues to grow with each generation! She paved the way for women in music, a road that was NOT easy to cross by the way.

When you think of legendary female artists with longgevity you think of Whitney, Cher, Liza, Aretha, and MADONNA!

The music industry is domintated by men and Madonna is a BUSINESS woman who is intellegent, smart and classy and should be RESPECTED for her contribution in music.

jayaredee said:

How about her meaningless lyrics?

Her unimaginative vocal phrasing?

Her bland, manly and unmusical voice?

Her lack of decent material in at least 15 years?

The direct, inverse correlation between her low talent and the high praise heaped upon her?


Love her if you want, if you love the iconography of her and the tunes do it for you etc but please don't try and pass her off as a genius.


She's just a trashy teenage girl got lucky and bluffed her way through the rest of her career.

Exactly! Dangerous was atleast as good as Q-produced albums and MORE diverse than them. And producers involved with Dangerous dont make one Quincy like you said. It should give an idea of MJ's musical talent

Slash said:

WHAT!? madonna is a LEGEND!!!! She paved the way for women in music.

The music industry is domintated by men and Madonna is a BUSINESS woman who is intellegent, smart and classy and should be RESPECTED for her contribution in music.

Slash said:

That's your opinion and it wasn't the original conversation.
It was regarding her album sales and her relevance, not your personal thoughts on her music

jayaredee said:

The original conversation was about MJ and Prince, but I guess it's OK to jack it, as long as we're gonna kiss Maddy's ass, huh?

LightOfArt said:

Disagreed. Dangerous doesn't even belong in the conversation with Off The Wall or Thriller.

MJ is a good singer who has always surrounded himself with good producers. And for that matter, good writers. In Quincy, he had a GREAT one.

Were it not for Quincy Jones, many MJ fans would not be MJ fans today.

No one's saying MJ isn't a talented singer. But MJ fans always seem to downplay the role that one of the greatest musicians and producers in the history of modern music had on MJ's career. Taken on the whole, each of MJ's post-Quincy albums is inferior. Period.

Give Quincy his propers. It doesn't mean MJ is any less of a legend.

klhk said:

How did she pave the way for female artists?!

So, there were no successful female artists before her?!

This is just a lazy assumption, that is in actual fact insulting to women, as if they needed a Madonna to come and help them out.

If baring flesh, wearing "BOY TOY" on her belt and kissing other women in videos is helping other women, then fuck me, pornography must be the most useful tool in femal liberation ever....

Taken on the whole, each of MJ's post-Quincy albums is inferior. Period.

namepeace said:

Sir, that's a matter of opinion. I'd take Dangerous, History and Invincible over Bad any day.

To the contrary, my edict in this matter is infallible.

Easily MJ. Commercially speaking, Prince lived off the success of Purple Rain like forever, and was far less famous than MJ at any point in time (I know, fame is only part of a career, but still an important part). MJ was a mega-star waiting to happen, and Thriller or no Thriller wasn't gonna change that. Just imagine that Prince's follow-up to 1999 was ATWIAD and MJ's follow-up to Off The Wall was someting like a mix of his late Jacksons' material. Also, you speak of hight-powered producers for bad, but Q produced Bad, just like he did OTW and Thriller, so...
Actually, you could argue MJ would've had more of a career without Thriller. Less pressure, maybe less commercial and possibly less crazy. It's hard to guess, but who knows?
It's hard to imagine Prince would've had more of a career without PR.

namepeace said:

You wish.

SpcMs said:

That doesn't make sense cuz had Thriller never happened...would MJ be THIS BIG? Nope. And Prince's 1999 was huge and critical and you can see his growth. MJ, as pointed out by vain I believe, had a disco sound with 'Off The Wall'...so if that was all he had to offer, who knows whether or not he woulda been able to make the transition?

namepeace said:

I rate Dangerous a higher than Off The Wall, Thriller and Bad. And not to mention Dangerous is far more diverse than all of them. And it sold more than Bad and Off The Wall

And I DO give Q his props. It was him who was able to get the best musicians on MJ albums. Van Halen for example. and great songwriters ofcourse

But what made Michael Jackson a legend are the songs he wrote himself. And listening to the earliest demos of those songs simply prove Q had very little to nothing input in those...

If Quincy was the producer on Dangerous, you'd love Dangerous just as much. It's just you don't want to give MJ props for his musical talent. Quincy does though

Eroticist said:

why waste time debating what would've happened if they werent released?

Who'd have bigger boobs if MJ and P were chicks?

LightOfArt said:

I think Michael Jackson sucks as a musician, a writer, and an entertainer.
Isn't it obvious?

Quincy wouldn't have worked with MJ if MJ sucked. And MJ wouldn't have worked with Quincy unless he knew Quincy could help him define his career. So it worked out for both of them, huh?

I love the Q-sounding tracks on Dangerous, i.e., Remember The Time. The rest of the album sounds pretty dated to me.

In any event, the reason Dangerous sold more than OTW was because, of course, he had built up a devoted following on the strength of OTW, Thriller, and to a lesser extent, Bad, albums that were produced by . . . oh. well, you know.

Dangerous also sold more than Bad because of the fact that MJ was hyping the angle of going in a new direction with his music and he had latched on to the hot new producers of the day.

Much of the great Off The Wall material, including "Rock With You" and "Off The Wall," was written by Rod Temperton. As was "Thriller," So all the songs that made MJ a legend weren't written exclusively by MJ.

And do you think the great songs he did write would have become legendary without Q behind the boards? Me neither.

No one doubts MJ's abilities. He is a great singer, a talented songwriter, and, at least, WAS, an almost-unparalleled performer before he decided to mutilate himself so bad as to become unwatchable.

But Quincy is a big, BIG reason for his success.

Those 2 facts are NOT mutually exclusive.
[Edited 5/10/05 11:25am]

I'd have to easily say Prince. If you took "Thriller" away from MJ...does he get the high powered producers for his next project "Bad"? MJ woulda been solid after "Off The Wall" but I don't think he woulda been anywhere near as huge as he was had 'Thriller' never dropped and blew up.

Prince was already making a strong go of it with the success of "DM", "Controversy" and "1999"..."Purple Rain" gave him access to MORE people but his musical talents were already starting to get some recognition and heat.

Plus, after 'Thriller'...MJ started to slowly lose sight of reality.

LightOfArt said:

If it's a waste of time...leave.