Do you reckon it's somewhat irresponsible or bad parenthood for adults to make their children listen to hardcore music? Isn't music like that comparable to i.e. PG-rated movies? What about the physical aspects - one could argue that making your kids listen to any type of noisy music for hours might damage their hearing? And how are you even going to be sure they are going to enjoy the same type of music you enjoy, even to the slightest degree?

Now I am not about to have kids myself anytime soon. But I am planning to have sex oneday and then it will be quite possible that I will end up getting children of my own as well. So what do you do? Subject them to Mental Destruction already at the cradle? Play Disfear at their birthday parties? How are their friends going to react to a household where instead of Dire Straits the dad is blasting Merzbow? Would they even stay away from such a place?

It is definitely up to the parents to decide what kind of content in movies and music is appropriate for their children.

"one day you'll have sex"

Great thread.

It blows my mind to think back to my childhood and realize my parents had a very narrow perspective (and today still listen to the same shit) in regards to what they listened to. When a kid gets to a certain age they're going to listen to the hateful stuff because they will relate to it.

What I've learned in my short life is the importance of exposing your kids to diverse music and not just one kind. When making a human being if you give them one or two choices you're limiting their perspective to make their own intelligent choices.

Slave2daGroove said:

guess my parents were pretty progressive compared to most. When I was younger, I was exposed to all kinds of music. Shit,as matter fact, my parents first got me hip to Prince and Rick James. It just really trips me out to read how uptight a lot these parents are with there kids and they forget that their ass was young once.

Hotlegs said:

If my parents would have turned me on to that music as a kid I would be farther ahead right now in understanding the Groove.

Lucky.

Parents today are making a fucked-up generation and when that generation figures it out, they are going to be PISSED.

I listen to Redd Foxx ,Pigmeat Markham, Mom's Mabley , Lawanda Page, Richard Pryor, coming up. It Just Boils down to knowing what,when you could do things.
and giving respect to your elders. It's too wide open today.

mrwigglesdaw1rm said:

But this stuff more about the man holding a brother down, plus sexual content
and getting over. in other words more real than a lot of the gangsta & thug rap

Slave2daGroove said:

That's a good point actually. Since children are going to be exposed to all kinds of music in the open society (which is also something they cannot escape) one could think parents would have almost a responsiblity play them diverse type of music as a part of their upbringing. It doesn't need to be necessarily thought of as an educational thing to do, but following the same guidelines parents are keeping in my mind when purchasing their toddlers toys - diversity, scope, whatever.

Novabreaker said:

It applies to all art, culture, food, traveling, cultures and just about everything. It's harder than setting the kid in front of a television but just imagine the quality of the person that would come out.

That's it, time to breed, first step, DATING,

Slave2daGroove said:

Oh no. Not again.

"So... I've understood that you are really active in the music circles. What type of music are you involved in?"
"Well, my new band is like IDM..."
"IDM? What is that?"
"Dance music you can't dance to..."
"Uhmmm...?"
"And I have this power electronics thing on the side, which I guess is really my main project these days..."
"Power electronics?"
"Yeah, I guess you could say it's like... basically just huge layers of mechanized noise with screamed distorted vocals on top of it."
" "
" "
"Can we just be friends?"
"I gotta go to the bathroom."

For real.

Novabreaker said:

C'mon now, there must be women into noise in your part of the world. They are definitely here in NY. My friend is one of them.

Novabreaker said:

Someone that shallow doesn't deserve someone with a clue and creative ways. Furthermore, that is not a date, that is getting to know someone (2 different things) and you really got to know her with a look. I love when that happens because you can now cross her off the list of MILLIONS OF ATTRACTIVE WOMEN OUT THERE. Keep your head up and point me to where I can hear this music, I'm more than curious with that description.

sextonseven said:

Of course, I'm active in the scene. I'm just making fun of the phenomenon, because it's just sometimes like that when you approach "normal girls" and it's actually quite funny when it happens.

Slave2daGroove said:

I think a first date is still essentially "a date". But I guess the definitions of dating culture vary from location to location. Actually Finns don't date half that much - we're far too shy and introverted for that! Usually we just get really, really drunk at a club, grab someone's arse and get married within a year. That's basically how it goes over here.



Alright. You can either click the links in my signature or use i.e. these instead (compromised soundquality):

http://www.eibonrecords.c...ection.mp3
http://www.coldmeat.se/so...t_move.mp3
http://www.coldmeat.se/so...n_hate.mp3

That's more of the hardcore, darker side of things. The other side is of course rhythmic noise, which is more cool and not that type of "loser music".

Novabreaker said:

That was perfect.

I would just be who I am. I'm not going to play music I don't like just to expose my child to it. They can get that elsewhere. I'm not gonna expose them to crappy Jackson Pollock type "painting" just to broaden their horizons. Now, I'm not going to prevent them from being exposed to it either.

I plan to do like my parents did with me and just share the things I enjoy with my own kids (if I have any). The problem with parents nowadays is that they either neglect their kids because they're too busy doing other things or they oversaturate them with crap they don't need. There's no way every kid in my house is gonna have a computer, t.v, and video game system. I'm not gonna force them to play an instrument or sport neither-- but I will encourage it and play with them.

Just don't overthink things. If you're into hardcore music then I guess that's what your kids will hear. I'd question whether somebody still listening to that is ready for kids but that's another story.

whodknee said:

like where?

whodknee said:

Perhaps it would broaden your horizons as well. Pollock (who I don't feel is crappy) was more than just dripped paint on canvas but an insight into a mindset that existed at that particular time. The music of that day was also a reflection of the time. So was the literature, fashion etc...

whodknee said:

I agree with the neglect part but hanging out at a museum with a child is not exposing them to things they don't need but helping them to see the other possibilities.

whodknee said:

Don't know if I fully agree but RE: Vid games and such. I truly believe that any parent that allows kids to play half the games on the market today is insane. I know there will be major repercussions for this. Kids are basically being trained with combat games the way the military is. That's pretty sick.

whodknee said:

RE: Music. It would be sad to limit a child to only what it is you like. It's like only teaching them some of the alphabet. They start hearing invetro at 6 months. I say let them hear the classical, and jazz etc.(oh yeah...and Jimi. Hendrix is the exception to every rule) This way when they grow up and decide to listen to whatever it is they listen to...they'll at least KNOW what it is and will be aware of the other possibilities. Any kind of illiteracy is bad.

"The illiterate of the 21st century will not be those who cannot read and write, but those who cannot learn, unlearn, and relearn." - Alvin Toffler

anon said:

Well, I'm glad you read my little rant. What I said was a little extreme. There are certain exceptions where I would expose my child to something I don't like-- like Church for example. However, I'm not going to sit through a boring sonata just to expose them to it. Those of us with inquisitive minds seek new experiences on our own. Besides, the child's opinion of the work could be clouded by my obvious disdain for it. It's always better to first experience things with someone with similar enthusiasm and curiosity, or even on your own.

The funny (bad) thing is that I'm so opinionated people think my horizons aren't broad enough-- sure they could always be broader. Whenever I have a strong opinion on something rest assured it's based on exposure to it. I've been in two art programs-- didn't finish either though -- and, yes I'm familiar with Mr. Pollock's work. My impression is that his work is some of the worst I've ever seen. I also paint, and if I have to tell the viewer what it is they're looking at then I'm not doing my job. I hold music to the same standard. If somebody's making a bunch of incoherent off-key noise I'm gonna call them on it.

I do love surrealism, so the work doesn't have to make literal sense, but the viewer has to know what they're looking at. The only possible use for his work is decorative, if that's what you're into. However, I have my own standards. By the same token there are those that will write my work off because I don't try to paint as realistically as Michelangelo (I don't care for him either ).

I wouldn't worry about my child not having enough exposure to different things. I have so many interests I don't have time to do them all. I'm certainly not gonna waste my time revisiting something I know that I don't like when there's so much out there I have yet to experience.
[Edited 5/7/05 17:31pm]

whodknee said:

I agree that your child will pick up your disdain. I would only hope that if you're experiencing something with him/her that you are then hearing it thru his/her ears. It's hard to believe that there's not some type of kiddie classical thing that even you could bear. Anyway, classical isn't everything. Outlook is. You say:

A child is only curious about the world surrounding them. It's up to someone to put them in these differrent "worlds".

whodknee said:

I disagree on every count (well, except that you dislike Pollock ). First, depending on the type work, it's o.k. to tell a viewer what they are experiencing. If it's realism and you have to tell them then that only means that you can't paint. But if it's conceptual or more abstract, your info (though not always necessary) can only deepen the appreciation (with some artists though, you wish they had said nothing at all). Painting as with music is multi-layered or can be.

There's the first reaction. You either like it or not...for whatever reason. At this point it doesn't matter if the painting or song has other layers. But if the more you learn about an artists intent, or the story behind a piece, the more appreciation you have, then that's a good thing. I've heard so many people say " I like the song even more because he/she wrote it about his mother/father/brother/ the war/the oppression etc..." they didn't have to know that but it adds more appreciation.

whodknee said:

Guess you would have a lot to tell Debussy, then. And Coltrane too, for that matter.

whodknee said:

Those don't sound like the words of an artist (Hope you have a website 'cause I'd love to see your work). What about the painting thats sole purpose is to evoke emotion thru color, and perhaps texture? Is this invalid art? Apply this to music and there are a lot of talented musicians and sound designers that are suddenly not valid.

whodknee said:

You have a way of summing yourself up.

whodknee said:

Seriously speaking there is more mature and artistic "hardcore" music out there than you could ever imagine. It just isn't residing anywhere near the mainstream, but if you need a mainstream example a band like Einstürzende Neubauten could give you some clue. Or even, say, Bowie's "Hearts' Filthy Lesson" if you haven't dug any deeper than the video channels.

Love the notion that one day you'll have sex I'm thinking of including that into my future too. Plus noise doesn't sound too bad, I reckon everyone else here listen to some sort of unbearable noise anyway (you call black/death metal music?)
And that was (unfortunately) a very accurate description of Dating In Finland (would make a really short book), kind of depressing.

Anyway, back to the subject. I think it doesn't really matter. Whatever you listen, when the child becomes old enough, they will find their on musical taste. It might affect them or then not.
When I was little my parents listened to a lot of Baccara, Elton John, Matti&Teppo and Anna Hanski. Typical middle-aged music. I still know most of their cassettes by heart, but at puberty I evolved into my own when it comes to music.
Whereas my best friend never listened any popular music at all, thier house was strictly classical and religious music. Now she's loving all kinds of music, including Patti Smith, Postal Service and Massive Attack.
So I'd say play what you like, but keep the volume bearable or hand out earplugs.

Sirah

Hey, I always have earplugs to hand out for everyone at my house. Honestly. I keep 'em next to the cracker bowl.

Novabreaker said:

WOW! Some interesting stuff. darker? yeah, I'd say. I have respect for anybody making a creative statement with music, thanks for sharing it.

On the other note, sometimes I forget that the internet is global so good luck with the drunken grab-ass
[Edited 5/9/05 7:57am]