So who is the 24-year-old who testified that his genitals were touched during tickling in the late 1980s and 1990?

This J. Francia guy is real fucked-up that he can't remember shit

CinisterCee said:

The paper reported it like this ^^^, but now it seems like we've only heard from some dodgy disgruntled eyewitness.

Disgruntle employees

mmm

theirs nothing shameful about coming out and try to corroborate a story
but when you have had a history giving stories to tabloids and robbing banks?
your no longer credible

Measerau will no doubt use that in his strategy
If i were him, i would Analyze the actual acts that witness
if they keep changing information just keep acknowledging it
Memories tend to get embelished or fuzzy after a period of a decade

Which also leads to another error by the Prosecution
What type of pedophile is Jackson,
a Clumsy one or an extremely private one?
In the begginning they established that he has all types of cameras, a security code etc...
Im sure he would close the shades whilst with his victims, unless he's really that stupid.
and molesting someone after a dip in the Jacuzzi?
That sounds like sooooo Cliche that it can't be true, i'm sorry
If your in a Jacuzzi, with another man... and you don't reject the offer
I'm sorry your either gay, are just plain stupid
i have to question how these children where raised cause when i was 13
I certainly wouldn't do that
Hell i won't get in a Jaccuzi with my own father if they paid me to.

ii also question how did he know it was the Jacuzzi and not the pool?
unless he was spying on Jackson, he wouldn't know
in 92 you have no intent to spy on Jackson, so he certainly didn't do that
i would understand if he was just routinely walking the grounds and saw Jackson in an open window
but his details are so precise, that it makes you wonder if he's embelishing

If i was messerau,
I'd get a blue print of neverland to see if you can actually peep in through a window
if you can't the wittness is discredited
Also if he saw this in 1992
why did he wait approximately 1 1/2 years to release a story to a tabloid(yes a tabloid)
why not just go straight to the police?
you go to a tabloid where they pay an amount of money for your story.
Then Jackson sues you for slander
and your bankrupt...
not only do you make no sense
you now have a motive for vandetta against your ex boss?

U are not a credible wittness
[Edited 4/8/05 7:48am]

i want more pictures on these threads

Friday, April 08, 2005
By Roger Friedman

Jackson: D.A.'s Witnesses Admit Lying

The prosecution put on two witnesses yesterday in the Michael Jackson child molestation trial, each determined to demolish the defense.

At first the prosecution's plan looked good. But then defense attorney Tom Mesereau came twirling onto the court, and the rest is history.

Mesereau's big moment came at 9:35 a.m. PDT.

With 10 minutes to go before the first break in the morning session, Mesereau knew that he had to act fast to counter former Neverland security guard Ralph Chacon's testimony, which included two instances of child molestation described in graphic detail.

The episodes were so intense and unsavory that they sent Jackson's mother Katherine Jackson fleeing from the courtroom. That left only brother Tito Jackson to stand by the pop star during perhaps his worst-ever moments in a court room. (Father Joseph Jackson was in Las Vegas on business, according to sources.)


Mesereau had no time to waste. The jury, the judge, the press and the public had just heard Chacon reel off what might have been a scenario from a porn novel issued by the National Man Boy Love Association.

Chacon said that he saw Jackson perform oral sex on a boy, among other upsetting things. When Chacon described a second episode, in which Jackson was "passionately kissing" the boy in front of a Peter Pan display, even Tito left the courtroom.

Santa Barbara County District Attorney Tom Sneddon asked Chacon why he'd never mentioned the latter incident in previous depositions.

"Who would believe me?" Chacon responded.

For a minute, the answer was everyone. The shock of his vulgar description was just enough to get the attention of all in the room.

But then came Mesereau, driving hard down the court like Michael Jordan. Armed with Chacon's deposition from the 1994 "Neverland Five" case, in which former Jackson employees unsuccessfully sued the singer for wrongful termination and harassment, Mesereau didn't take long to make mincemeat of the witness.

Suddenly Chacon's every answer was "I don't know" when Mesereau plied him for details of the famous lawsuit, the longest civil trial in Santa Maria history.

"The jury said you stole and acted with malice," said Mesereau. "There was a judgment against you for fraud. Do you recall stipulating that you acted with fraud, oppression and malice?"

Suddenly Chacon, who claimed to have a clear memory seeing Jackson in a criminally incriminating situation, could not remember a thing.

He couldn't recall the exact amount each defendant in the dismissal case was ordered to pay Jackson ($1.4 million), or a judgment against Chacon in another case ($2,600), or his telling a doctor that he'd rather get $1 million than work again.

Even when Mesereau, in a flamboyant but familiar lawyerly move, showed him his contradictory depositions from a year ago, Chacon was flummoxed.

Did he remember his lawyer saying he wanted $16 million for the five former employees?

"No," said Chacon.

Mesereau showed him his deposition. The ex-security guard, now a substitute teacher, had an epiphany.

"Now I see it," he declared.

Did Chacon recall saying in his deposition that Michael Jackson used to stare continuously at him? That he stared at no one else?

The witness, in a rare moment of clarity, explained: "I said it just to say it."

Those ten minutes were perhaps the most crucial in Michael Jackson's life.

Things went just as badly for former personal maid Adrian McManus.

Even though her appearance and demeanor were a marked improvement over Chacon's, her forceful testimony was cut to shreds by Mesereau quickly. At one point, jurors started looking around the room rather than pay attention to her.

This happened after the umpteenth time Mesereau — by now riffing on the "May I refresh your memory by showing you that page from your deposition?" routine — sauntered over to the witness stand, book in hand.

McManus should have been a reliable, prepared witness.

Mesereau got her to admit she'd had a three-hour meeting the night with prosecutors on Wednesday night, just before her testimony Thursday morning.

Even under direct questioning, her natural bubbly personality had been supplanted by somber tones. And it didn't help that Mesereau knew a lot of dirt about her past.

He avoided any reference to her direct testimony that McManus claimed she'd seen four boys — including Macaulay Culkin — share Jackson's bed. Instead he pounced on her personal credibility.

Among McManus's "secrets": She and her husband were sued by their sister-in-law, who won a judgment against them of $30,584.89. The crime? They "willfully and maliciously defrauded" the woman's children after her husband died and the couple served as their guardians.

In the Jackson dismissal case, Mesereau revealed that McManus had stolen an ink drawing of Elvis Presley done by Jackson and sold it — her contribution to the "fraud, oppression and malice" part of the case, which also included fellow former employees Chacon, Melanie Bagnall, Sandi Domz and Kassim Abdool.

Part of what Mesereau was able to establish with McManus and Chacon was their unwillingness to work with or for a new Jackson's security team, which was installed in 1994.

Called the Office of Special Services, or "OSS," the internal Neverland outfit was run by longtime Jackson crony Bill Bray. Fearing disloyalty after the Chandler scandal broke in 1993, Bray brought in his own security force to run roughshod over the Neverland staff.

The result was much as it is presently at Neverland — fear and loathing rules, with no one in charge. It's a management style made for disaster.

McManus's final half hour on the stand was almost painful. She was reminded of a statement she'd made in a deposition about the alarm system for Jackson's bedroom: "When you're a celebrity, you lead a difficult life. People kill celebrities. That little sensor benefits him for his life."

She also admitted to having lied in the Chandler v. Jackson civil suit a decade ago. In that case, she claimed she'd never seen any kids sleeping in Jackson's room. She'd also said that June Chandler, mother of the kid who eventually got a $20 million settlement from Jackson, had brought her son's clothes to Jackson's room, knowing full well he'd be staying there.

Mesereau said: "You're saying you committed perjury in the Chandler deposition?"

McManus: "The whole time [I lied]."

Mesereau: "Knowing that it was a crime?"

McManus: "I didn't think of it that way."

By then, the jury had long forgotten about Chacon's pornographic musings.


http://www.foxnews.com/st...71,00.html

I´ll be happy to post one for you.


As for those witnesses - how can ppl lie this way just to cause troubles to others without being punished?

wow..that last article was an awesome read...

"Bubbles, now in his 20s, lives with a famed animal trainer in California, the New York Daily News recently reported. He has been charged with no wrongdoing."



By the way, Mesereau could defend me anytime. He is a superb attorney. The stories of the prosecution's witnesses look like swiss cheese by the time he's done crossing them.

Love the sign in the middle.

Unfortunately, Stupid Anti-war protesters are their again with their 'Love thy enemy' signs. Perhaps they should fuck off to Iraq for a romantic throat slitting.
[Edited 4/8/05 10:53am]

Wanna know what was on our local news?
"Michael Jackson´s ex-bodyguard testified that he witnessed Michael Jackson having oral sex with a young boy."

That´s it. No mention of cross examination. Nothing. That´s how they treat him over here. I HATE MEDIA!!!!

Cheers for the posts, Marrk.

dag said:

It's the same the world over. Interested to see what they'll do when it's the defence's turn, Wait for Sneddon? a Media blackout?

Marrk said:

It wouldn't suprise me one bit, mate. Fuckers!


.
[Edited 4/8/05 11:01am]

but how "credible" can this case look to those ppl who don´t follow it, don´t read transcripts and only get to hear what´s on news. Now if (WHEN) he´s found innocent how can they believe or understand it when all their heard ware tens of witnesses who supposedly saw MJ fondle a child? They´ll all think he´s guilty and only won cause he´s got money, too good lawers or whatever, not that the wintesses were more than ridiculous and evidence none therefore it is natural that he´s innocent... I HATE IT, it´s NOT FAIR!!!!! Michael doesn´t deserve this!

dag said:

The tabloids are rarely interested in the truth. Sadly that's just the way it is. The truth is often boring and boring news doesn't sell. Sensationalism gets people's attention and that sells papers. It's all about making a profit. Simple as that.

MJ's former chef called LeMarque on the stand testifying he walked into the Neverland arcade at 3am to see Mike with his hand down Macauley Culkin's pants.

Is Sneddon aware Mac is Prince's (not our Prince, MJ's Prince) Godfather and he was a grown ass man when he was guest of honor alongside Liz Taylor at MJ's MSG concerts in 2001?)

Sneddon is a dim prick alright. I can't wait for the defence to start.

[Edited 4/8/05 11:43am]

Marrk said:

there are more important things in this world then one mans freaken self-created drama.....


good grief!!

sosgemini said:

Well they were there the other day too. A childrens band were there to play for Michael as he was going into court. Unfortunately their playing was drowned out by chants of 'No War' and 'Not our President' these so-called anti war protesters clashed with MJ supporters and anti MJ peeps alike, these little kids were scared and confused by the actions of these protesters and had their day ruined. They've just no business being there IMO.




[Edited 4/8/05 11:48am]

Cloudbuster said:

its not just the tabloids anymore
its newspapers
their only a few newspapers that call the case unbiasly
those news papers usually cost 1 to 3 dollars

Marrk said:

I disagree wholeheartedly!
Those protesters are their for a just cause and thats to stop that maliscious war in Iraq
michael jackson may be innocent but he is ONLY a celebrity!
none of those fans personally know him
Im sure the protesters have sons and daughters in iraq being killed at this moment
I don't give a damn what the hell you think!
but don't disrespect those protesters and say they have no reason to be THERE!

Because they have a hell of alot more reason than a bunch of silly fans trying to give hope to a self-destructive popstar
thats crossing the line...

Court is over for the day. Sneddon tied to put on a witness the Defence were not apparently ready for, whatever that means. court postponed.


Former chef says he saw Jackson improperly touch Culkin
Friday, April 8, 2005 Posted: 2:34 PM EDT (1834 GMT)

http://www.cnn.com/2005/L...cnn_latest

SANTA MARIA, California (CNN) -- A former chef at Michael Jackson's Neverland Ranch testified Friday that he saw the pop star improperly touch then-child movie star Macaulay Culkin in the early 1990s.

"I was shocked," said Phillip LeMarque, who said the incident happened about 3 in the morning, after he was summoned to cook and deliver french fries to Jackson and Culkin. "I almost dropped the french fries."

Testifying in Jackson's child molestation trial, LeMarque said Jackson was holding Culkin up so he could reach the controls of the video game. One hand was holding the boy by the waist, and the other hand was coming up through the leg of Culkin's shorts and was on his crotch, LeMarque said.

Culkin, who has denied that Jackson ever touched him sexually, would have been 10 or 11 at the time of the alleged incident in 1991.

LeMarque's testimony came Friday morning after the defense lost a bid to try to impeach his credibility by introducing evidence that he operated an explicit adult Web site from 1997 until recently.

"We can prove this witness tried to use tabloid stories about Mr. Jackson to get into this business," defense attorney Thomas Mesereau Jr. said.

But Santa Barbara County Superior Court Judge Rodney Melville ruled that the evidence could not be admitted because it concerned events that happened years after the events about which LeMarque was testifying.

Also Friday, the defense sought to discredit the testimony of Adrian McManus, a former maid at Neverland, by suggesting to jurors that she tried, and failed, to win millions of dollars in a wrongful termination suit against the pop star.

On the stand Thursday, McManus testified about an incident she says she saw between Jackson and a boy whose family reached a multimillion-dollar settlement with Jackson in 1994 after alleging molestation. She said she saw Jackson kiss the boy on the mouth and put a hand on his crotch, over his pants, in Jackson's bedroom.

McManus also said she saw Jackson put his hands on the leg and buttocks of Culkin, while kissing him on the cheek, and witnessed a similar episode with another young boy.

She said she left Neverland in 1994 after being harassed and receiving "death threats" from members of an armed security detail, dubbed the Office of Special Services, that arrived at Neverland after the settlement.

McManus and four other employees sued Jackson for wrongful termination, seeking $16 million. But the suit backfired when Jackson countersued and the jury found in his favor in 1995, leaving the employees on the hook for nearly $1.5 million in legal fees.

Pressed by Mesereau on Friday on how much money she wanted from Jackson, McManus replied, "I wanted justice." She also said that if she had gotten an apology for the way she had been treated by Jackson's security staff, "that would have been enough."

Asked if she had ever called Jackson to ask him for that apology, she said, "I didn't have a phone number to call Mr. Jackson."

McManus admitted that she had accepted money from tabloids to provide information about Jackson and his ex-wife, Lisa Marie Presley, including participating in an article about their "kinky sex secrets." But she insisted that the bulk of the money went toward financing the employees' legal action.

"We tried to get money to help with our lawsuit to fight Mr. Jackson," she said.

While she was quoted in the article about "kinky sex secrets," McManus said she had no such information about Jackson and Presley, who were married in 1994 and divorced in 1996.

McManus said that during her time at Neverland, she never saw a woman spend the night in Jackson's bedroom suite. She said actress Brooke Shields, who had been romantically linked to Jackson in the media prior to his marriage, stayed in a guest cottage when she came to Neverland.

The 46-year-old singer is accused of molesting a boy -- now 15 years old -- at Neverland Ranch, giving him alcohol and conspiring to hold the boy's family captive in 2003.

Jackson has pleaded not guilty to the charges

CNN's Dree De Clamecy contributed to this report.

-----

They're not really mentioning the cross on this report much so i thought i'd add to this little snippet somebody picked up on MSNBC

Msnbc reported that Mez got Lemarque to admit that he told the tabloids that he wanted $500,000 for his story, not the $100,000 they were offering. Also Lemarque said that his broker came up with the story of the hand going "inside" the pants instead just outside because that would get more money.

again,

picture from today.




what´s up with all those ppl who don´t know the difference between the police and tabloids?

dag said:

Money...

Michael Jackson - Money Lyrics
Money.
Money...

Lie for it
Spy for it
Kill for it
Die for it

So you call it trust
But I say it's just
In the devil's game
Of greed and lust

They don't care
They'd do me for the money
They don't care
They use me for the money

So you go to church
Read the Holy word
In the scheme of life
It's all absurd
They don't care
They'd kill for the money
Do or dare
The thrill for the money

You're saluting the flag
Your country trusts you
Now you're wearing a badge
You're called the "Just Few"
And you're fighting the wars
A soldier must do
I'll never betray or deceive you my friend but...

If you show me the cash
Then I will take it
If you tell me to cry
Then I will fake it
If you give me a hand
Then I will shake it

You'll do anything for money...

Anything
Anythang
Anything for money
Would lie for you
Would die for you
Even sell my soul to the devil

Anything
Anythang
Anything for money
Would lie for you
Would die for you
Even sell my soul to the devil

Insurance?
Where do your loyalties lie?
Is that your alibi?
I don't think so
You don't care
You'd do her for the money
Say it's fair
You sue her for the money
Want your pot of gold
Need the Midas touch
Bet you sell your soul
Cuz your God is such
You don't care
You kill for the money
Do or dare
The thrill for the money

Are you infected with the same disease
Of lust, gluttoney and greed?
Then watch the ones
With the biggest smiles
The idle jabbers...
Cuz they're the backstabbers

If you know it's a lie
Then you will swear it
If you give it with guilt
Then you will bear it
If it's taking a chance
Then you will dare it

You'll do anything for money...

Anything
Anythang
Anything for money
Would lie for you
Would die for you
Even sell my soul to the devil

Anything
Anythang
Anything for money
Would lie for you
Would die for you
Even sell my soul to the devil

Anything
Anythang
Anything for money
Would lie for you
Would die for you
Even sell my soul to the devil

Anything
Anythang
Anything for money
Would lie for you
Would die for you
Even sell my soul to the devil

You say you wouldn't do it
For all the money in the world
I don't think so
If you show me the man
Then I will sell him
If you ask me to lie
Then I will tell him
If you're dealing with God
Then you will hell him

You'll do anything for money

Anything
Anythang
Anything for money
Would lie for you
Would die for you
Even sell my soul to the devil

Btw, don't tell me that bass line isn't funky lol

Luv4oneanotha said:

Maybe some do have sons over there fighting, i'd say more likely not though.

My cousin got back from Iraq about six months ago, and i'm enormously proud of him, and proud of any soldier from any country putting it on the line. Instead of using the MJ trial, why don't they just go protest outside the Whitehouse or something?

It made me happy to see the Iraqi assembly evolve out of this mess. And it was a mess, i hate war, don't get me wrong, but there is a budding democracy in Iraq which at the end of the day is a good thing.

On this particular topic, i've really nothing further to say.
[Edited 4/8/05 12:43pm]

Marrk said:

Have you ever tried to protest?
im sure theydon't all have the type of money to go flying around to the white house...
they are using the only resource they have available to them

Budding Democracy my ass,
that area is destined for war...
you think a democracy is really going to stop that?

Within every revolution, the seeds of its own destruction are grown...
on this paticular subject i have quite alot to say
but this is an MJ thread, so i'll yield

But no matter what this fool in office thinks,
its still a free country
and they have as much right to be there as MJ fans
now i've said my peace

Luv4oneanotha said:

and you've done that very thoughtfully and eloquently.

please note i don't go into Politics and religion, it's not my forte, i tend to go with my heart on these matters.

Is Katherine turning into the Godfather of Soul?

.
[Edited 4/8/05 13:02pm]

Marrk said:

I try to stay out of politics...
its an area of vas opinions, morality is not an optionbut that just jumed out and bit me i had to say something
but i do apoligize if i was rash in anyway
i do respect your opinion, no matter what it is

Marrk said:

maybe she can take up beating Joseph