Now, I really respect the Sixties pop culture of the Beatles, where you get one idea and you repeat it nine hundred times. I respect that repetition: "Love, love me do." But that's not where I come from.

When I was 13, though, I got into Joni Mitchell with my dad, and played it to pieces. I loved Don Juan's Reckless Daughter but Hejira was the one. It was more acoustic. I've always found guitars a bit difficult because my dad played since I was very little, and he was a bit of a Clapton and Hendrix kind of guitarist, and I've always been critical of that, but I loved her guitar sound very much, although it's very hard to say why.

With hindsight, she was one of the first women I heard who weren't completely stupid. She had her own air of style and independence, whereas a lot of women just wanted to play men's music. I wasn't so much into her voice, more that she had her own world, with her own elements. You definitely knew that it was Joni the second you heard her. It was very strong, but very feminine, you know? It was natural and earthy but modern as well.

She was never my role model, though: I don't think any singer was, to be honest. Instruments influenced me more than singers, like brass and stuff. You might start puking when I say it but I never had the ambition to be a singer, I always wanted to make good music. It's like learning shorthand writing. It's not so much that you're into it, but it makes it easier to write anything. That's why I sing.

She asked for 'something Björk'. She also wanted me to sing on the song, to make it a duet. I had written the song especially for her. But my intuition told me that it would be wrong for me to sing on the song. I also refused to meet her officially. When I finally meet her I want it to be totally by coincidence, when we're both drunk in a bar or something like that.

now im sorry...how can woman who breaks it down on public enemy.....respects but doesnt really get the beatles.....and appreciated joni mitchel for being a real woman.....

how you gonna compare her to madge?

DavidEye said:

Well, she's certainly not mainstream. You're not gonna hear her on the radio outside of college stations. And the big 3 video channels don't play her anymore. You'd be most likely to see her videos on M2 at this point and 120 Minutes back in the day. The videos and songs that got the most attention here in the US would be: Human Behaviour, Big-Time Sensuality, Army of Me, It's Oh So Quiet, Bachelorette and All is Full of Love. The others you'd be lucky to hear.

My introduction to Bjork was seeing the Pagan Poetry 35mm version on big screen before a movie in the theater. She had never crossed my path before. I was like

heartbeatocean said:

So you became an instant fan then, right?

Madonna is both mainstream and cutting edge. She defines the edge and then cuts with it and crosses it. Not musically perhaps but artistically, because her artistry goes beyond music. She is a player of the media, a performance artist. For Madonna, fame itself is her medium. She's the definition of post-modernism. We even studied her in graduate school. How many artists can be super pop stars and cutting edge? It's much easier to be one or the other, but to be both? She's both instantly accessible and challenging. I can't help it, I appreciate and admire her. She's brilliant.

madonna is *not* cutting edge...theres a reason why she asked for "something bjork".

this is not to discredit madonna...she is shrewd at researching and selecting sounds that others have created..but in order for her to be cutting edge she would have to have had to been apart of the intial creations..

no?

heartbeatocean said:

madonna is *not* cutting edge...theres a reason why she asked for "something bjork".

this is not to discredit madonna...she is shrewd at researching and selecting sounds that others have created..but in order for her to be cutting edge she would have to have had to been apart of the intial creations..

no?

sosgemini said:

How bout we compromise and say she's somewhat edgy.

sosgemini said:

She's her own initial creation. Again, I'm not talking about her music per se, I'm talking more about her persona, her fluid play on image, her work with taboos and the stuff of culture. That's what artists should do, in my opinion, stir the pot, change perceptions, break boundaries. I also think she's contributed a hella lot to feminism while at the same time deconstructing the concept. The fact that she can do this within a package of mainstream and heartfelt songs is pretty impressive in my opinion.


....running into my hole again....

That'll do for me. One problem with Madonna is that, while I feel like I really get her, I get bored talking about her really quickly.


...taking a nap inside my hole now...

Madonna is both mainstream and cutting edge. She defines the edge and then cuts with it and crosses it. Not musically perhaps but artistically, because her artistry goes beyond music. She is a player of the media, a performance artist. For Madonna, fame itself is her medium. She's the definition of post-modernism. We even studied her in graduate school. How many artists can be super pop stars and cutting edge? It's much easier to be one or the other, but to be both? She's both instantly accessible and challenging. I can't help it, I appreciate and admire her. She's brilliant.

i disagree once again....because all of her images were taken from others....she was great at immulating other icons and making them her own...

So sosgemini, I don't disagree with you at all. I think we're both seeing the same thing from two sides.

heartbeatocean said:

i see where you are getting at...but i still disagree with her being cutting edge....and i site nina hagen and grace jones as perfect examples of what truly is cutting edge in pop music.....i guess i look at cutting edge as an uncompromising vision of ones art..and im sorry, maddonna has always danced the line but she has always played it fairly safe...with the exception of her Sex book which is interestingly enough the one time period in her career that she seems to regret.....

look at it this way, would Madonna have release an album thats the equivalent of a can of soup? a slap in the mainstreams face? i think bjork would....its called Medulla.


btw: as i read your comments i just happened to be listening to "I'd rather be your lover" on girlbros.....so see, i do like madge.....i really do...i just like her for what she is, not what i want her to be...(not saying your are like that heart....[cough cough davideye cough cough].)

sosgemini said:

I repeat, Madonna is not avant-garde (ok, NOT cutting edge), she's postmodern. A can of soup is not a "slap in the face" to the mainstream, it's an act of surrender to art as a consumer product and a statement that "true art" is dead or irrelevant. How can we say Madonna has played it safe and not been controversial? not musically, I know

whatever...

I certainly don't have any agenda about Madonna. I'm not even really a fan and it's all kind of boring to talk about. But I do find her relevant, considering where we are in this culture. It's just the way I see it.

and while i agree with your assesment of the Soup Can I still see it as a slap to the art worlds face.....just like I thought Bjork went back to basics with Medulla while slaping the music worlds face...

I love Andy Warhol. Don't know much about Bjork though...

heartbeatocean shines on this thread.

CinisterCee said:

ass-breath..