theVelvetRoper said:

with a name like theVelvetRoper, why I’ am I surprised.

lilgish said:

Nah - come on. You're an MJ fan so you have your own bias. I have been a fan of both. JJ puts on a hell of a show. The costumes and the sets are more imaginative. She is far more energetic in my mind, on stage than her brother (admittedly she is younger). And her dance troop is so incredibly tight. I think she almost rivals Madonna for the shows she puts on. That's an "almost" Madonna fans....

adoreme said:

maybe now...but I've never seen Janet as energized as mike was on bad, muchless anything prior to that or in the 70's. How often does she dance solo?

all of her stage shows since RN have been tight. Velvet was Dope, AFY was kinda ott. Who are her background dancers?

P.S What's with the Marilyn fetsih? Between You, Me and velvetroper, it's starting to look Turner Classic Movies in here.

lilgish said:

Arf! Yep - MM is one of my idols. I fell in love with her after hearing "Candle in the Wind" - the original, not the shameless crap hauled out for Diana. My folks are big Elton fans and it sparked my interest. You can't have too many fabulous women around this place if you ask me.

I must admit - I haven't seen an MJ concert live and it is one of my regrets, muscially as I doubt I will want to see him now. Those performances that I have seen though, whilst brilliant just don't compare to JJ for me. She has a sense of theatre that MJ just doesn't. Her shows are incredible.

As far as I know she keeps pretty much the same group of back up dancers throughout her tours although doubtless Velvet Roper will be able to clarify that.

In keeping with the topic I felt that she really outshone her brother in the dance sequence. He looked very much like he was just going through the motions. JJ looked fitter and more passionate about the whole thing.

TonyVanDam said:

yes, that's my point. the special effects aren't that many in the Scream video. like i said, you can see it in Black Or White (especially for its time) or Bedtime Story, but for Scream, i just don't see where the money went. the special effects in that are both simple and infrequent.

Tessa said:

Computer-generated spaceship: $65,000
Breaking guitars: $53,000
Morphing artworks: $50,000
Michael's makeup: $3,000
Janet's makeup: $8,000 a day
Choreography: $40,000
Giant video screen: $80,000
Lighting: $175,000
Cost per day: $636,000 (about 11 days)
Total cost of 11 sets: $5,000,000

lilgish said:

Lordy. What a phenomenal waste of cash!

Forty grand on choreography? I may have to take back everything I said about either MJ or JJ's dancing prowess....

lilgish said:

my point is, you could make exactly the same video for a lot less money, hence my reaction that i don't see the money on the screen. aside from the morphing art and possibly the spaceship (which could have been done just as convincingly with a model), all of that is not something that jumps out of you and screams "expensive".

lilgish said:

Pro-Tools HD Recording Studio System: $12,000
Jam/Lewis's studio electric bill: $5,000
Keyboards & Drum Machines: $500,000
The loan money that Sony gave Michael: $30,000,000 + interest!!!

The overall profit going to Sony Entertainment to help keep their stockholders happy: Priceless!!!!
[Edited 3/18/05 15:16pm]

Tessa said:

And keep in mind that this video (in 1995) predate a lot of advance video software (Adobe Audition, Sony Soundforge, etc,) that would have help Michael & Janet to save a lot more money from wasteful spending.

adoreme said:

I have to disagree

With Janet's shows all her moves are choreographed and everything is planned out. A lot of MJ's show is too but he often just lets loose and goes crazy with his dancing. He can do a lot of freestyle which Janet really can't she has to be tightly choreographed in order for it to work with her.
Same with Prince, you never know what to expect with him. Which is why Prince and MJ have to be 2 of the best performers ever.

jayaredee said:

They are IMO. P as a musician, MJ as a showman.

Everybody else pales in comparison.

Good song. Hasn't dated too badly.

But I agree with TonyVanDam about the "scream louder" remix. That is loud indeed and can cause migraines.
[Edited 3/21/05 2:23am]

Yeah i was surprised too at the fact I expected it to be no1 in both UK and USA at least. It had hype that was almost as big as "black or white". It should of been HUGE chartwise?

I loved the song. I recall hearing the song first, then anticipating how they would edit the "stop fuckin' with me" line for the video.

My friends and I ditched junior high classes for the premiere, and we all taped it when we saw it thereafter
We'd hang out at noon hour watching the "Scream" video.

So the edit was "Stop (crashhhhh)in' with me" and Janet flippin the bird.

Other versions was Janet's offensive gesture itself being blurred out, and my friend Mike swore he saw a version with the swear unedited????

Anyway... no other video made us behave like that, so I think it is an outstanding video. The dance wasn't that amazing, but I think my friend Mike learned it

The dancing was weird. Not good really. Those shoulder moves were crap.

"black or white" was talk of my class for weeks. That end bit..... me and loads of other kids would imitate that shit for days.



We tried shit like above for real. Shit we were daring muthafuckers back then!
[Edited 3/21/05 2:57am]

I still imitate that "Black Or White" car-roof sequence.

On top of real cars? Man u brave.....

I did this on a teachers car at school as a kid. I got suspended but I became a overnight sensation.

thesexofit said:

I also remember trying to see what those digital letters said.. "RE-Entry THREShold"

Plus I learned the Hammer "too legit to quit" handmovements. But they went out in a few days

thesexofit said:

are you kidding that was the rage in 92/93

lilgish said:

$8,000 for Janet's make-up?! Aww c'mon!!! Completely not needed (what in the hell did she put on her face that cost 8 G's??), and she even spent more than Mike in makeup, and he always got TONS of it on.

I dig the song, though it sounds more like an updated version of Janet's "Rhythm Nation" than anything else. The re-use the same Sly sample and everything. It didn't bring in nearly the buzz that they surely hoped for. I'd say it was a couple of years too late from catching them both at their commercial peaks.

lilgish said:

fortunately, the sychronized hand movements of I would Die 4 U aren't that complex, since I'm usually plastered when Prince sings it live..I always put end up signing something like "Would U Die 4 Eye"