IstenSzek said:

He likes him some bleach does our Chris.

I wonder if he'll wake up dead tomorrow?

Handclapsfingasnapz said:

and he fits in with the dirty old man. And besides...if Hugh DIDN'T surround himself with the plastic barbie dolls, I be worried. I mean he's the creator of Playboy for crimminy sakes.

ANd the reason that MJ hasn't been on awards etc in the past few years is because who in thier right mind is going to put him in front of an audience except for MJ himself?

You know, I think the general populace, whilt making fun of MJ...really would like all of this to go away too. No one wants to think of him as the creature he's portrayed. If he was to actively seek help, I think it'd be applauded.

You speak of isolation...but I think he's insulated...not exactly isolated. If he was in seclusion and a recluse...we'd see another Sly...and he'd be out of the public eye completely. And if that means holding off on the music or doing the P thing and being an indie for 10 years...then fine. Thing is MJ loves the spotlight like most of his contemporaries.

Aside from all of the trial...the person who needs to help Mike is Mike. He ought to take a look at his whole scene (if that's even possible and make some changes in the way he does things or is viewed as doing things.

If I were Mike, and the trial blows over and he come out of it pretty scratch free, Id take inventory. Mark it up and sell it off. Sell Neverland...consolidate. Relocate in a private location. Create my own studio. Make great music and distribute exclusively over the internet and communicate with my fans only...no media announcements. When everyone has forgotten about meand has stopped following my every move, then maybe come out a little bit.Release an album via a major label...and then become reclusive and elusive.

I don't say this to hurt...but I think it's one of the only ways he can keep on being MJ to the folks that care about him the most after all of this.[/quote]

I so agree with you!

I was just telling my sister, if he wins this trial I'd say fuck em, take my kids, sell Neverland, and move far, far away.

Gavin, and his family are nothing but grifters.. It is a shame.

He should sell Neverland and move somewhere else. I agree.

Cloudbuster said:

I don't know, he seems to be quite tough though



Have you heard from him at all since last friday?

dreamfactory313 said:

he shoulda done that eons ago.

IstenSzek said:

Yeah! I booted him out of my house this morning for wetting my bed.

Cloudbuster said:

better make sure you whipe his prints off your pornstash

just in case.

adoreme said:

I sincerely object to that comment!
Now that MJ looks like he'll come off with his hands cleans off of that one, now its because of how good his lawyers are...
I mean c'mon...
I think if MJ had a public defender, he'd still get off because of the multitude of mistakes the prosecution has made.

i think someone actually posted "His lawyers are too good, he will get off"
WTF? so he's not going to get off because the case is rediculous but because his lawyers are just too good.

ahhh

i swear,

no offence adoreme, you probably weren't saying that, but it just burns me up sometimes

i

Luv4oneanotha said:

Hmmm. Okay. I retract that.

I said it because I feel that sometimes those with money have an unfair advantage in the US courtroom. I think at this stage it looks like he will get off, simply because they cannot prove beyond a doubt that he did it.

sag10 said:

I so agree with you!

I was just telling my sister, if he wins this trial I'd say fuck em, take my kids, sell Neverland, and move far, far away.

Gavin, and his family are nothing but grifters.. It is a shame.[/quote]

Unfortuneately, he'll probably still continue to have kids around. Even after this past decade and a half...he still is a grifter magnet. I doubt he'll learn any lessons. And there is one deep down at the heart of this. And it involves keeping yourself and your children SAFE and away from the public.

Madonna does a real good job at keeping her private life and professional life seperate (except for kaballah...although that is now part of her professional personna). She doesn't put a cloth over her kids heads...she just refuses to have anyone take pictures of them. He should take a tip or two from her.

Handclapsfingasnapz said:

And once a horn dog always a horn dog.

superspaceboy said:

i was waiting for some1 to name drop Madonna
I swear the reason i dislike her so much is because she has Pretentious fans
no offence

*Prays Madonna brigade won't TP my house*
[Edited 3/18/05 14:10pm]

Luv4oneanotha said:

Whatever to Madonna. SHe can go Kaballah her self into a book for I care. I just think the way she handles some of her motherhood...considering who she is. Now I could be wrong and she's really Mommy Dearest...but I sorta doubt it.

There is a commonness about her where she can be a diva one day and soccer mom the next. I dunno maybe I identify with her midwest no nonsense way about her.

superspaceboy said:

so many jokes to tell, so little time

i love soccer moms lol especially the ones in pornos...

*Daddy, why is mum kissing britney spears*

*Cause your mum needs to put food on the table*

and now we have a Madonna Thread!!!!!ALERT ALERT

lilgish said:

I apologize, couldn't resist myself lol


but back to the case

The house keeper testified,
can someone post the transcript

IstenSzek said:

I don't "do" porn.

Cloudbuster said:

I have an early 90's roll of 8mm film, starring
one "Buster Clout", proving quite the opposite!

Luv4oneanotha said:

TOO LATE! CONTAMINATION IS IMMINENT!

good one. Sorry folks, I don´t wanna turn this into Madonna thread, but Madonna´s also acting like a stupid teenager sometimes. C´mon just admit it. I also don´t have problems admiting Mj does stupid mistakes sometimes (and you know how much I love him ).


Well only time will tell whose kids will turn out better. But I wouldn´t worry about MJ´s kids. I am sure he´s trying to do his best and all the comments I´ve ever heard about Mj´s kids were more than positive ones. (and not just from Liz taylor)


Adoreme, now c´mon. Tell me what has the prosecution presented that makes you doubt his innocence in this particular case connected to Gavin. (except what MJ has said about sharing beds etc.) They were saying that they had a STRONG case, but Gavin can´t even remember how many times he´s supposed to be molested. I mean if you are moleste over a period of years by a family member, for example, of course you won´t remember exactly how many times you were raped, but I think it is immposible not to remember if it was 2 or 5 times...saying that you were held against your will and than come back...saying you were shown porn that was released months after you left....it´s ridiculous. They haven´t proved ANYTHING that was supposed to happen to GAVIN.

dag said:

You've only ever heard positive comments about Michael's kids? Like, "Wow, Blanket's skin sure looked snowy white when Michael was dangling him over the balcony!"
[Edited 3/19/05 6:29am]

legal age or not, it´s still sick.




??? worried ???

And Mj is a creator of Neverland, so of course you must see kids there. BTW guys, what is so sick about Neverland? Animals? Don´t we all love them though? Amusement park - Are we all sick whenever we visit amusement park or Disneyland?

Excerpt from Court Transcripts)

MR. MESEREAU: And I think what the government prosecutor was suggesting was the kids must have been somewhere during the evening, right?

KIKI FOURNIER: Yes.

MR. MESEREAU: But I'm curious. You also said that you looked at Gavin's room and it often was a mess, right?

KIKI FOURNIER: Toward the end, yes.

MR. MESEREAU: Suggesting that Gavin was staying in the room, right?

KIKI FOURNIER: I believe it was he and his brother that were staying in there.

MR. MESEREAU: And they made a real mess out of that room, didn't they?

KIKI FOURNIER: Yes.

MR. MESEREAU: Quite often, didn't they?

KIKI FOURNIER: Toward the end, yes.

(End of Excerpt from Court Transcript)

(Excerpt from Court Transcripts)

MR. MESEREAU: And they were known -- they had a reputation at Neverland for having disciplinary issues with the staff, didn't they?

MR. AUCHINCLOSS: Objection. Calls for hearsay and calls for a conclusion; improper characterization of the evidence.

THE COURT: Overruled. You may answer.

THE WITNESS: Not really with me. I mean, Gavin was always respectful with me. Always. Star could be a little bit ornery. And Davellin, we'd talk every once in a while. But I never experienced any problems.

MR. MESEREAU: But you knew other employees did, didn't you?

KIKI FOURNIER: Well, I knew that they were becoming demanding, yeah, but I don't really remember a specific incident.

MR. MESEREAU: Now, when you say you learned that they were becoming demanding, could you tell the jury what you mean?

KIKI FOURNIER: Well, every night we'd make dinner, and he always wanted something other than what was made for dinner.

MR. MESEREAU: Who was this, now?

KIKI FOURNIER: Star.

MR. MESEREAU: Would make demands on you personally?

KIKI FOURNIER: Yeah. They'd want certain kinds of foods made at certain times. And usually it was chicken noodle soup, which wasn't that difficult, but --

MR. MESEREAU: Would you get upset at those demands?

KIKI FOURNIER: Honestly, I got irritated sometimes because of the demand. There was so much to do. There was so much to do, and I -- when the kids got a little ornery, it was -- it was a lot. It really was. It was -- and I felt like there was no respect.

MR. MESEREAU: And they seemed to sort of get very spoiled there at some point, didn't they?

KIKI FOURNIER: Yes.

MR. MESEREAU: And weren't there complaints about their throwing candy?

KIKI FOURNIER: Yes.

MR. MESEREAU: There were complaints about their throwing objects from the amusement rides?

KIKI FOURNIER: Yes.

MR. MESEREAU: There were complaints from other employees that they were almost acting like they owned the place?

KIKI FOURNIER: I don't remember that one, but I know that they were getting a little ornery.

MR. MESEREAU: Do you remember their crashing carts?

KIKI FOURNIER: All of them crashed the carts. I don't remember specifically if they did or not.

MR. MESEREAU: Okay. Okay. Now, did you ever learn that they were caught with adult material?

MR. AUCHINCLOSS: 403 ruling.

MR. MESEREAU: I think the Court said I could ask.

THE COURT: Overruled.

MR. MESEREAU: BY MR. MESEREAU: Did you ever learn that?

KIKI FOURNIER: No, I don't remember that.

MR. MESEREAU: Did you ever learn that they were caught masturbating in the unit?

KIKI FOURNIER: No.

MR. MESEREAU: Okay. Okay. You never had any discussion with anyone about that?

KIKI FOURNIER: No.

MR. MESEREAU: Okay. Okay. Do you recall learning that they had driven off the property at one point into town?

MR. AUCHINCLOSS: Objection.

MR. MESEREAU: Did you ever hear about that?

MR. AUCHINCLOSS: Objection; foundation.

THE COURT: Overruled. You may answer.

THE WITNESS: I know that they left with Chris Carter one time.

MR. MESEREAU: You don't have any knowledge of their going into town on their own, do you?

KIKI FOURNIER: No.

(Excerpt from Court Transcripts)

MR. MESEREAU: Mr. O'Grady, you seized a book titled "Bidgood," and the name is "Taschen" at the bottom; is that correct?

DEPUTY O’GRADY: Yes, that's correct.

MR. MESEREAU: And do you know where that book came from?

DEPUTY O’GRADY: No.

MR. MESEREAU: Do you know that Mr. Taschen is a German photographer who was going to photograph the Jackson family?

DEPUTY O’GRADY: I have no idea, no.

MR. MESEREAU: Are you aware that Mr. Taschen sent this to Mr. Jackson?

DEPUTY O’GRADY: No, I do not.

MR. MESEREAU: And that's Peter Pan on the cover, correct?

DEPUTY O’GRADY: I don't know. It looks like a person playing a pan flute. Could be like a mythological person or something.

MR. MESEREAU: Okay. No further questions.

(End Excerpt from Court Transcripts)

(Excerpt from Court Transcript)

MR. MESEREAU: Okay. Do you remember when you were in front of the Santa Barbara Grand Jury, Mr. Sneddon told you there was an order that you not talk to the media, and your response was, "Oh, man, I was going to have a press conference"? Do you remember that?

ACCUSER: That was probably a joke.

MR. MESEREAU: That was a joke?

ACCUSER: Yeah.

MR. MESEREAU: So you're in front of the Santa Barbara Grand Jury talking about this case and you're telling a joke?

ACCUSER: Yes.

(End of Excerpt)


-----

Under cross-examination, the boy said he did not take advantage of several opportunities to escape -- during trips to the dentist and a toy store -- because he did not want to leave.

"Those first few escapes you talked about -- I liked being at Neverland. It was like Disneyland," the boy said. The family left for good in March 2003.


Excerpt from Court Transcript)

MR. MESEREAU: I see. So you went into town with Michael Jackson, correct?

ACCUSER: Yeah. Michael took us to Toys R Us.

MR. MESEREAU: You picked up some fans, correct, on the way?

ACCUSER: Yeah, Michael invited some people into our -- the thing.

MR. MESEREAU: You never complained to anyone in the store or any of these fans that anyone was being held against their will, correct?

ACCUSER: I was actually happy to be at Neverland all the time.

MR. MESEREAU: And you were happy to go --

ACCUSER: That's something you don't really understand, is that the majority of those times was -- the first few escapes that you talk about, I liked being at Neverland. That was like Disneyland. I loved being there. I had lots of fun. I mean, my mom was the one always worried. It wasn't until the last time that I realized "I don't want to be here."

MR. MESEREAU: Your mother was worried, but she always came back, right? Right?

ACCUSER: I guess so.

(End of Excerpt)

Mr. Mesereau also brought attention to, not only the accuser’s lack of sensitivity for Mr. Jackson’s skin condition (vitiligo), but through questioning, he exposes the accuser’s apparent lack of knowledge of Mr. Jackson’s vitiligo. Considering the fact that the accuser claims to have seen Mr. Jackson naked, he is surprisingly unaware of the effects of the disease.


-----

(Excerpt from Court Transcript)

MR. MESEREAU: Finally, Mr. Arvizo, in your direct examination, you commented a couple of times on Mr. Jackson wearing makeup. Do you remember that?

ACCUSER: Here?

MR. MESEREAU: When you were answering Prosecutor Sneddon's questions, a couple of times you used the word "makeup" in referring to Michael Jackson, right?

ACCUSER: I said one time when he was -- a story about a time when we were in the room where his makeup was, but I don't remember me saying it a lot of times.

MR. MESEREAU: Now, you knew that Michael Jackson has a skin disease called vitiligo, right?

ACCUSER: He told me about it.

MR. MESEREAU: And he told you that he's an African-American man with a skin disease that eats up pigment in his skin, correct?

ACCUSER: Yes.

MR. MESEREAU: And you knew that that disease was causing certain patches of white and brown on his skin, right?

ACCUSER: Yes. I guess.

MR. MESEREAU: And --

ACCUSER: I don't know. It's not like I was making fun of him yesterday, if that's what you're trying to imply.

MR. MESEREAU: Well, you knew that his skin is vulnerable to sunlight, correct?

ACCUSER: Yes.

MR. MESEREAU: And that's why you see him with an umbrella, correct?

ACCUSER: Yes.

MR. MESEREAU: And you also knew, because of the patches that appear on his skin from that disease, he does sometimes put some makeup on, right?

ACCUSER: I didn't know about patches. I thought he was just all white.

MR. MESEREAU: Well, you discussed the skin disease with him, right?

ACCUSER: Yes.

MR. MESEREAU: You knew the skin disease was changing the color of his skin, right?

ACCUSER: That's what he told me.

MR. MESEREAU: And you knew that's why he put makeup on; true?

ACCUSER: Not really. I thought it was just because he had, like -- because he -- he didn't have pink on his lips, so he would put makeup on his lips. I mean, I wasn't making fun of him yesterday, if that's what you are trying to say.

MR. MESEREAU: You weren't making fun of him at all?

ACCUSER: No.

(End of Excerpt)

hey that was stupid mistake, nobody´s arguing about that. But all I´ve heard about Prince and Paris so far was that they are very well-behaved, unspoilt kids.


C´mon. People love to see him. The last time at BET awards where he presented an award to James Brown they went WILD!

dag said:

I suggest stop listening to voices lol

btw thanx for the transcript

looks like MJ's attorneys are trying to eliminate many of the rumours circulating MJ
because i don't see why they needed to mention his skin disease!
to discredit the individual for probably making fun of him?

what they should of done is eliminate the MJ prancing around naked claim..
The kid thought MJ was all white , and taht he didn't have patches...
EXACTLY THE SAME THING JORDY SAID! when he described mj's body parts to police
now when police photographed parts of mj's body
their was not a direct match to corroborate the story,
the pictures showed various pigment discoloration and blotches
The police where stuck, way before the settlement
The settlement stopped the civil suit...
lack of evidence stopped the criminal preceedings

If the kids didn't know about the blotches chances are they probably never saw him naked, The defense could do (i doubt they will) is rake pictures of mj with the visible blotches...
that would be powerful evidence against the accusers.
extremely powerful...
but like i said,
doubt it will happen

Luv4oneanotha said:

I suggest you fock off

VoicesCarry said:

And i love you too!