Why was Winger so bad? I'll tell ya!!


Back in the early 80s, metal became quite big (bands like Iron Maiden and Judas Priest). Naturally, a toned-down, more commercially accessible form of it came about, but the bands still had an edge (Motley Crue, Ratt). After a while, the clones of these bands arose, watering down the music to the level of being glorified pop with the trappings of metal(Poison, Warrant). By the late 80s, you had what were, essentially, third generation clones. There was no edge, the cheesy, shmaltzy pop ballads had taken over, and the uptempo songs were just like Debbie Gibson with guitars. Winger, in every way, epitomised this. They were sugary pop that had no edge whatsoever. They were a "rock" band that didn't, in any way, rock. Sure, the musicians were competent, but the songwriting was cringe-worthy (I'm talking Dianne Warren style cringing). Hell, compared to Winger, Stryper was fucking Maiden (I'm hardly defending Stryper here. I've acknowledged that my tastes back then was somewhat whacked).

Metal had always been a rebellious, rock-out with your cock out form of music. With the advent of bands like Winger, it essentially was neutered. The beast no longer had balls, and was now a playfull pussy.....cat. Sure, there were plenty of hair bands who were just as bad as the Winger boys, but Winger was really at the forefront of the wussification of metal. They are the perfect example of everything that went wrong with rock in the late 80s. Its no wonder all the grunge bands were able to come in and drive a stake into this genre. People were hungry for some real rock.

JediMaster said:

It was about getting the bitches man. Bon Jovi started it.

lilgish said:

Well, Bon Jovi DID sort of start it, but I don't really put them in that category. Technically, Bon Jovi was more in line with bands like Journey than Motley Crue. Bon Jovi was, essentially, a straightfoward pop-rock band who dressed like the metal guys (a smart move that gained them tons of fans who would have otherwise ignored them). Bon Jovi's music really didn't fit in with these bands though, and that's a big reason why they were able to keep going long after the Hair band thing died.


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[Edited 3/15/05 6:11am]

JediMaster said:

I always put Bon Jovi in the same category as Def Leppard.

I always put Bon Jovi in the same category as Def Leppard.

minneapolisgenius said:

LDefeppard certainly turned into that. They started off as a fairly decent hard rock band though. Up through Pyromania they had a real edge. They went for the pop-rock sound from Hysteria onward (unfortunately). Of course, they also weathered the hair band trend fairly well. While they weren't a huge act anymore, they were still bringing in concertgoers when many of their contemporaries couldn't get a gig at a state fair.

JediMaster said:

After Pyromania, they started sounded like your typical stale pop hair band. They went from kick ass to lame ass.

minneapolisgenius said:

They both crossed over with huge albums. They had prior relatively successful songs with Bringin on the heartbreak and Runaway before they blew up. I think Def Lepard was always more metal than Bon Jovi.

minneapolisgenius said:

They both crossed over with huge albums. They had prior relatively successful songs with Bringin on the heartbreak and Runaway before they blew up. I think Def Lepard was always more metal than Bon Jovi.

Hotlegs said:

Sad too. If you listen to thier greatest hits, its like the early stuff doesn't remotely fit on there. Its sounds like a totally different band.

I remember hearing them back in the day, and thinking of the potential they had with tracks like "Foolin" and "Rock Of Ages". Then, we got shit like "Two Steps Behind"

JediMaster said:

See, I don't know their early stuff really. I just think of songs like "Pour Some Sugar on Me" etc.

minneapolisgenius said:

Oh, you really should listen to High & Dry or Pyromania. Neither sound anything like PSSOM. They're actually really good, hard rock albums.

JediMaster said:

I agree, High & Dry WAS a good rock album that just predated the "hair metal" days of Ratt, Dokken et all. Some of the work on On Through The Night was also rockin.

wouldn't you love to see Stryper, 50 cent and Marilyn Manson collaborate on a track together? now that would be hot!!

I agree, High & Dry WAS a good rock album that just predated the "hair metal" days of Ratt, Dokken et all. Some of the work on On Through The Night was also rockin.

Stax said:

Ratt was dope. Out of the Cellar is a classic to me. Dokken's Tooth and Nail is also dope. Motley was a great band pre TOP, Girls, Girls...once they got away with making shit it was carblanche for any other band with big hair and makeup..... enter POISON.

lilgish said:

I hear you. I certainly didn't mean to suggest that Ratt and Dokken should be lumped in with the derivative Cindarella, Poison, White Lion, Europe, Warrant brand of Hair Metal that followed the first wave of LA metal. I do, however, think that High & Dry is more of rock album than Out of the Cellar or Under Lock and Key, which I consider classic LA metal, along with the Crue.

Beside, you gotta admit, the LA metal boys had really big hair compared to high&dry-era Leppard, who had to play catch-up hairwise



[Edited 3/16/05 18:40pm]

Stax said:

The only good thing I can say about Dokken is that Mikkey Dee, who at one point was their drummer, has been the drummer in Motorhead for the last 15 years or so, and KICKS ASS!!! Never mind that poodle-hair shite, get yerself down to a record store and pick up some recent MOTORHEAD

lilgish said:

wouldn't you love to see Stryper, 50 cent and Marilyn Manson collaborate on a track together? now that would be hot!!

dancerella said:

Umm, not really. No.

JediMaster said:

Oh come on, you know you do! Hot I tell ya, Hot!!

dancerella said:

First off, the very presence of 50 Cent would keep me away from it!!