VoicesCarry said:

Just looking at the thread topics, I would gather that there is a lot of orgers who aren't the least interested in the music of a artist. Is it just me or isn't it the music that matters?

jw1914 said:

Have you BEEN to Prince: Music and More lately? They make threads on fucking lipstick shades he wore and former girlfriends and shit like that. Same deal here! People like to bitch on message boards, you know, about stupid shit.

There are many threads devoted to actual music in both forums. If you feel they're being neglected, I'd encourage you to start more. But don't start accusing everyone here of having no musical taste and being ClearChannel robots because there's a few topics on Bayawnsay's hideous weave.
[Edited 3/8/05 9:03am]

VoicesCarry said:

Bayawnsay's

CORRECTION: Everyone except Rhondab. I've liked Ushers music.

VoicesCarry said:

It is obvious from your replies VoicesCarry that you are offended by my comments and have taken them personally, and I apologize to you. That certainly was not my intent. But if you were to look back a few replies you will see that I said "most" not "everyone" and I never mention "no musical taste" nor "ClearChannel robots" so if you are going to quote me please do so accurately. My point was that [and I'll spell it out for you] MOST orgers are not interested in the music of an artist as much as they are interested in the appearance of an artist. Most of today's signed artist are simply signed to become "eye candy", it is no longer about musical talent that is meant to be heard not seen. With the videos the record companies can distract the viewer's attention from listening to viewing only. That is why there are dancers on the stage, "a distraction" from the lip syncing. Just when did music become about moves on stage as oppose to the music?

Rhondab said:

And Jojo-- that lil' bastard can chrn out a hit like nobody's business...

i think part os the reason people like Jill Scott, Erykah Badu and a few others do so well is that they do use live bands when they tour. "old school music" tours still sell very well because most people over the age of 30 remember how it used to be, when everybody wanted to be in the band or the singing group..now it's just all about sampling your parent's music collection and pumping up the beat behind it. hopefully, it'll run it's course, like boy bands and bubblegum pop.

Here is a history lesson for some youngsters. Recorded music was created to try and capture the live performance. Music was played many, many years before it was ever recorded, so when technology developed so as to allow one [who was not in a position it witness a performance] to hear the performance of a artist, it was designed to capture the music because the music is what made the artist. Not to say that recorded music is a substitute for the live performance, no but the original intent of recorded music was about the music. Now days because many of todays artist lack the talent to focus completely on the music, the intention is to turn the public's attention away from listening where true talent lies and focus on the visual where the appeal of mass produced artist is meant to be. When was the last time you seen a very large singer get signed? Judging by the standards of todays record companies the likes of Aretha Franklin, Stevie Wonder, Ella Fitzgerald would have never gotten signed. Thank God those past executives were not so shallow as todays.

meltwithu said:

Both of those artist is from philly or has performed in and around philly long before they got signed. I can attest to this being from philly. They cut their teeth so to speak in the "chittling curcuit", performing live before recording. I never once saw Boys To Men, Will Smith live here in philly before they got signed, maybe because they were too young to get into a club.

jw1914 said:

In the same way, early film was basically a way to record a stage performance...but because of technology a new language was developed also a new way of seeing and understanding this medium. Thru edits and effects etc... we can do more than sit in one static position.

It's similar with music. The technology is a component as well and it is a growing changing component. I always like a live recording but thru technology new musical artforms have developed. It's art. It grows. There's nothing wrong with that.

And it's not as simple as "Stop buying and demand live bands" social change doesn't just happen like that. To a generation that doesn't, for the most part, know what a change (in music) is, you can't expect an abrupt change in taste. The next generation may view the live band as some today view Jazz. Then again it may change for the better. You can't demand change and you can't resist it.

True we are a commercial society and it truly is about the quicker dollar. Execs have figured a way to play to the senses. The visual will be a factor. It's a formula that works and always will but at the same time the public isn't stupid.

"True Talent" always finds it's way to the surface.

jw1914 said:

I agree with part b), but not part a). Are the people in Prince: Music And More really more concerned about what he wore to the Oscars than his music? No. I would like proof that most orgers are more concerened about the clothing, appearance and image than the music - other than thesexofit. I think this community is probably one of the more diverse and musically literate I've found on the web, and I guess I just don't see the threads where everyone's valuing the image more than the music.

P.S. Your original statement was, "While there are a few orgers on this site who know good music (in other words, only a few with good musical taste) and have a respect for live music, most are too young to know the difference and so don't care."

I didn't take your comments personally, but there are many orgers in my age group who are not blithering idiots when it comes to music, and I was trying to defend them.
[Edited 3/8/05 11:40am]

jw1914 said:

I couldn't disagree more about orgers' musical tastes. That's overexaggerating just a tad.

Most orgers are conversant in and appreciate a wide variety of music from different genres and eras. Your comments about the state of music, while largely true, amount to preaching to a very large choir in this forum. You may find that many if not most orgers agree with you.

How do you define "youngsters," btw? Just curious. You've mentioned them several times in your thread.

Also, while the labels and the radio dominate the airwaves and the cable box, pop music is arguably more democratic than it's ever been. It is easier for the listener to find music to suit their own niches. Which means that much of the concentrated purchase power of older folk w/disposable income (let's say 26-40) is spread out among thousands of different artists, while the media conglomerates seize on a limited number of "hot" artists popular to the 13-25 set. In many ways, if the music isn't there for discriminating listeners, we may not being doing enough to find it and support it.

Just because someone's discussing P's outfit,makeup or ex-girlfriends doesn't mean they don't care about the music.

namepeace said:

I agree.

but there's a point where ya' just gotta be concerned about the way someone looks.

VoicesCarry said:

If no orgers listen to modern radio,how do you explain threads about Destiny's Child,Mariah,Jay-Z,50 cent,etc?
I'm sure fans of those people listen to modern radio.

R&B bands are extinct.That's the missing element in todays music.When artist like Ursher go on tour,they use live musicians.But it's not quite the same.For example,The Time(the original line up)were a great R&B/Funk band.But it wasn't just the music.Morris,Jesse,Terry,Jimmy,Jellybean,and Jerome had image and personality.
I would love to see the return of the funk band.Maybe like a Good Charlotte meets Cameo type of vibe.Hmmmm.....

VoicesCarry said:

Speaking of Hootie,has everybody seen his Burger King commercial?

jw1914 said:

I don't hate Ursher.He's very good at what he does.He's just not great.There's a difference.

anon said:

Thanks so much Anon for your reply, an opposing view helps to see things in a different light.

Now in regard to social change being demanded, yes it is possible to change social behavior by demands. Simply look at the civil rights movement. While deep rooted racial hatred will still fester in the hearts of many, their public behavior has changed for the better. Many times change comes about by revealing reality much the way a mirror does. When we truly see ourselves, we might not like what we see and thus make adjustments. I feel that us true lovers of good music should hold up a mirror to todays music and demand a adjustment! Like a parent that tells their child to go back upstairs and change that outfit, us "old schoolers" need to help the new generation appreciate good music. Bad music has always been around, it just never got recorded!!!

larryluvlife said:

That is a whooole different thread my friend . whole different thread

TV on the Radio
Bloc Party
The Dears
ESG
The Roots
Outkast
The Libertines
(my band )

Just a few artists that are all Black or have Black members in the group.

NWF said:

I have the record but don't listen to it that much.

jw1914 said:

This is so different. Not really a good comparison. Perhaps I should have said "impose" instead of demand because what you want to do is impose your likes onto a generation that is quite content even if it is in ignorance.

What you can do is put it out there as an option.

With the way that things are changing...there's room for everyone and everything. Because of internet radio and things like XM and Sirius no one will be left out. Perhaps things will not be as large the way they have been, they can be large Globally. It's kinda nice that even the niche markets can have global followings.

Guess what I'm saying is that there's no need to change because you can find what you want just as others can. Not like any are being deprived.

As far as changing the tastes of the newer generations, it will happen when the time is right. Change always happens this way. I suspect it's only a matter of time before the they get the "formula" because that's all it really is. Reality TV is helping to demystify. It will happen collectively. The generation will see that it's Emperor has no clothes. So when the next Prince comes on the scene (he'll probably have no clothes either...but he'll be playing the real thing). This will click collectively and there will be change.

One thing that is guaranteed is change. I'm kinda hoping that it goes this way.

You can protest and demand or you can educate and give options so that when change is on the horizon you will have had an imput.

anon said:

Agree!

But I'm talking about artists that have laptop sequencers performing backing vocals (Ashlee Simpson) and too many specials studio effects (boy bands, rap artists) all in the name of sounding EXACTLY like their studio albums!

IMHO, that is some foul shit!!!
[Edited 3/9/05 23:00pm]

TonyVanDam said:

I agree. That Ashlee incident is just more to help demystify.

anon said:

Wew, that all went way over my head!

anon said:

the drawing of a circle around one's eye goes back to the times of Socrates, where the officials would draw the circle around their eye to show that they were judging or officiating.
(I'm paraphrasing.)

jw1914 said:

It's not that deep. Just saying that this kind of change happens in it's own time.

mochalox said:

Thought I knew a little Socrates. Guess I knew less than I thought. Never heard of the circle thing.

Still, Socrates or no. It will always look like Pete to me. I guess it's so much easier to draw from Pop culture 'cause there are so many visuals.

I'm not that deep that I go around looking for profound meanings in these things.

Really, I was sure that there was something deeper...just because of his nature, still when you go around looking for profound symbols you really should check the Pop culture visual library first 'cause that's what will resonate strongest today.

gypsyfire said:

its called the television. yea these folks r on the radio but their also on tv (mtv, bet, vh1)