jacktheimprovident said:

Elvis is labeled the king of rock 'n' roll because of all the success he had, not because he was the best performer or best artist. No one in the history of rock 'n' roll has had more hit singles or hit albums than Elvis. That's why he's the king.

jjhunsecker said:

I think the resentment of elvis stems purely from the fact that he's labelled the undisputed king of rock n roll when he wasn't necessarily the best rock artist, or even the best among the early pioneers, black or white. Sure Elvis was a pioneer of rock, and one of the most important rock artists of all time. But for him to be ranked above Chuck Berry and Little Richard in the eyes of the public and the critics is at least partially because he's white.

Edit: also I don't even think Elvis was the greatest white rocker either. The Beatles the Stones, and even artists that were relatively contemporary with him are shafted in comparison to the amount of prestige he has (Bill Haley, Buddy Holly, Jerry Lee Lewis).
[Edited 3/9/05 12:04pm]

jacktheimprovident said:

Elvis is labeled the king of rock 'n' roll because of all the success he had, not because he was the best performer or best artist. No one in the history of rock 'n' roll has had more hit singles or hit albums than Elvis. That's why he's the king.

funkpill said:

But what you're talking about here is a sociological issue, not a musical one.
Of course, it was easier for Elvis to gain acceptance because he was white. That goes without saying. The same reason that say, Russell Crowe probably gets more movie offers than Denzel Washington. But people shouldn't denigrate Elvis's talent for these reasons. Elvis was a great singer, perhaps one of the greatest (equal to Sinatra, Ray Charles , or Aretha ,in my book) and a superb entertainer. Even CHUCK D (!) has said that he considers Elvis to be a great artist, and that his comments in "Fight the Power" were more about how audiences accepted El more readily than his black counterparts, than an attack on Elvis himself.

I do find it interesting how Elvis is the one artist who seems to get constantly raked over the coals (mainly by Blacks, but also some others as well) for "stealing" Black music. There have been White artists who've worked in mainly Black idioms for ages, from Benny Goodman to Stan Kenton to Sinatra to
Paul Butterfield to Eric Clapton to Hall and Oates to Eminem today, yet only Elvis is portrayed as this great cultural thief. ( And of course, nobody would dare say that Charlie Pride "stole" Country music, or Kathleen Battle "stole" Opera, or Wynton Marsalis "stole" Classical, without fear of being branded an idiot at best or a racist at worst, would they ???)

American Music has always been a melting pot of styles and influences, but people want to keep things in little boxes and not open their minds a bit ( And I wonder if a lot of this animosity towards Elvis comes from him being a Southener ??)

jjhunsecker said:

We live in a racist society my friend.....
Dig in the crates & seek some real history.....

funkpill said:

Of course we do. I don't deny that for a minute. In America, it ALWAYS helps to be White. And since there are more White people here than any other group, it's expected that they may want to hear or see people that they can "relate" to. So a young , horny White teenage girl, looking for someone to have a crush on, would probably pick an Elvis over Bo Diddley (they'd also probably pick him over an old-looking Carl Perkins, a fat Bill Haley, or a nerdish Buddy Holly as well)

But none of those issues should obscure Elvis's talent (or at least, they should be seperate issues) . Like I said, even Chuck D does not deny that EP was extremely talented and charismatic

jjhunsecker said:

I don't see how race can be seperated from this...
Or anything for that matter.....

Elvis was a hero to most
But he never meant shit to me you see
Straight up racist that sucker was
Simple and plain
Mother fuck him and John Wayne
Cause I'm Black and I'm proud
I'm ready and hyped plus I'm amped
Most of my heroes don't appear on no stamps
Sample a look back you look and find
Nothing but rednecks for 400 years if you check-Chuck D

Preach, brotha

DavidEye said:

Yeah, when she's not busy stealing melody lines, she's being championed as the RETURN OF SOUL or shit like that. Fuck off, Alicia!

funkpill said:

Like I was saying, these are two seperate issues. The quality of music and social problems that exist in the US are both issues that we can discuss, but one shouldn't necessarily "color" (pardon the pun !) the other.
There's a very good book that you may want to check out. it;s called "A Change is Gonna Come" by Craig Werner, and it deals with the interaction between music, race , and culture in America.

I try to seperate the quality of music from other issues, if I can. Let's look at it this way : R Kelly and Michael Jackson are both extremely talented individuals. They are also IMO degenerate perverts. The fact that I am disgusted by what RK or MJ (may) have done, doesn't mean that "Thriller" is any worse as an album now, or I can't still enjoy "Ignition Remix".
What I think of an artist personally is different than enjoying his or her work and appreciating their artistry. I mean, if you believe the "Possessed" book, even Prince can be an asshole at times !!!

Harlepolis said:

As I pointed out, on at least 2 occassions that I know of (once in MOJO magazine , and in an interview on a TV special about Elvis) Chuck D has explained (backtracked ?) that those lyrics were not meant as an attack on Elvis per se, but on the culture that honored him over black artists, which is fair enough.
Chuck has said that EP "was a brilliant artist". Chuck is a bit of a musicologist, and I guess when he finally sat done and actually listened to Elvis, and understood his roots and his respect for the sources his music came from, then he gained a greater appreciation for his work, divorced from his image or any sociological issues

jjhunsecker said:

I understand your point...
But this isn't personally against Elvis.....
Even though he was a pedophile....
Its about this racist society as a whole...
But then again, I remember hearing that he said that
the only thing black people can do for him, is to buy his records
and shine his shoes.....

funkpill said:

I'm sorry, please blow the lid on this scandal that I know absolutely nothing about

Also please tell me where I can find that quote.
[Edited 3/10/05 13:46pm]

kanamit said:

You obviously doesn't know music

funkpill said:

I'm sorry, please blow the lid on this scandal that I know absolutely nothing about

Also please tell me where I can find that quote.
[Edited 3/10/05 13:46pm]

VoicesCarry said:

Just because you didn't know anything about it, my friend,
doesn't mean it wasn't said.....
[Edited 3/10/05 14:19pm]

saintsation said:

You obviously doesn't know grammar.

TonyVanDam said:

just wait... after the success of the rap on American Life... Madge will do a rap album

VoicesCarry said:

Just because you didn't know anything about it, my friend,
doesn't mean it wasn't said.....
[Edited 3/10/05 14:19pm]

funkpill said:

CORRECTION: Elvis never said that!!! Even Chuck D corrected himself years later after he found out that Elvis was lie on.

TonyVanDam said:

And how did he find out???
And why is everything is base on what Chuck D. has said???!!!!

Elvis was quoted once as saying that he was just doing what the "colored" musicians had been doing for years. That's the beginning and end of it right there. If Elvis was racist, then he was a product of his time. But he wasn't simply a mimic. He was a talented musician in his own right. I think the problem we have with Elvis has less to do with the artist than the way in which he was celebrated when so many others that came before him were shunned and died poor and unknown.

There's more to it than that. Elvis was very appreciative and respectively of where his music came from and several black people who knew him have testified that he was a very generous and courteous person, there's a specific story told from the perspective of one of his black friends in our history of rock n roll book that I could cite but I'm not going to right now.

namepeace said:

There's more to it than that. Elvis was very appreciative and respectively of where his music came from and several black people who knew him have testified that he was a very generous and courteous person, there's a specific story told from the perspective of one of his black friends in our history of rock n roll book that I could cite but I'm not going to right now. BUT, as you and others have said, our beef with Elvis isn't because he was racist or even that he was untalented, its because he's held in much higher regard than a lot of other rockers, white and black, who came before him and I don't think he really deserves to be.