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PrintableSpcMs said: I read some of those Grand Jury testimonies, and they are pretty digusting (and actually sound pretty credible when you read them like that). But some things just make you wonder.
For example that MJ molested the boy the last five nights he was at Neverland, but that him leaving Neverland had nothing to do with this molestation. That the boy didn't tell anyone about it until his mother's laywer sent him to the same shrink as in the '93 case, who gets a confession out of him in less than an hour. That the boy's brother didn't tell anyone about it until his mother's laywer sent him to the same shrink as in the '93 case, who gets a confession out of him in less than an hour. The changing story about the golf cart incident. Touching "penis and testicles" isn't even remotely the same as "putting his hand on my leg, without coming near to any private parts". The whole "witnessed" molestation story. First of all, I would have to be very out of it in order not to notice someone is groping me while i'm asleep. The boy's brother coming out of nowhere at 1a.m., setting of the alarm, unlocking a locked door, going up the stairs, and witnessing MJ 'molesting' his passed out brother is just  . I guess the only credibility that story has comes from its unlikeliness  Yah i read a couple of them when they first came out of smokinggun They are lurid... Im mean extremely extremely disturbing.. So disturbing its kinda fishy... the third part scheme is exactly the same as 93 parents send their children to Dr. Catz,(too ironic) and he gets them out of it Why is it Doctor Catz that gets the confession out of all kids related to MJ, First send them to feldman , than send them to catz, its like a ritual... i don't get it... I seriously don't somebody help me, its just too much! | |
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A beautiful picture from today.
Apparently, Michael waved a peace sign to his fans and then put his hand down and Joseph then grabbed his arm and put it back up.  | |
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Cloudbuster said: TheOrgerFormerlyKnownAs said: Cloudy, I'm not saying Michael Jackson is a pedophile but don't you think, just a little, that this guy needs some therapy? Yes, there is nothing wrong with loving kids, but damn, when you become a parent, you don't get to act like one anymore. Fuck the fact that he didn't get a normal childhood, no excuse, NONE.
On the contrary, many parents have expressed the joys of how having children allows them to relive their own childhood. Does MJ need therapy? It seems that everyone needs therapy of sorts these days.  | |
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scorp84 said: TheOrgerFormerlyKnownAs said: Please. Where in this thread do you see someone call Mike a pedophile?
No one here is saying they are perfectly normal but can you say that you think Michael is? No one is "normal" period. It's all a state of mind. Perception. We r all individuals with our own minds, and our own ways of rationalizing things. It's nearly impossible 2 reach a conclusion on someone's mental health when u don't even know the person, and have only gathered information on the person mainly through stories spun out of control by the media. Has Michael been through some stuff, yes (like alot of people), but that doesn't make him "wacko", a "freak" or some "thing" that doesn't deserve respect. It would b totally unfair 4 me 2 tell some1 what they should and should not do, when I'm on the outside looking in, with no idea of the implications involved. That's just a waste of energy. | |
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I took a day off yesterday. Could anybody sum up yesterday's day in court? What did Star say?
BlueNote | |
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No one is "normal" period. It's all a state of mind. Perception. We r all individuals with our own minds, and our own ways of rationalizing things. It's nearly impossible 2 reach a conclusion on someone's mental health when u don't even know the person, and have only gathered information on the person mainly through stories spun out of control by the media. Has Michael been through some stuff, yes (like alot of people), but that doesn't make him "wacko", a "freak" or some "thing" that doesn't deserve respect. It would b totally unfair 4 me 2 tell some1 what they should and should not do, when I'm on the outside looking in, with no idea of the implications involved. That's just a waste of energy.
I don't feed into what the media says about MJ, I go by the words that come out of his own mouth and his actions. Co-signed to those two. I also go only by his actions and words. Of course he´s done few mistakes, but when he talks I see him perfectly OK. I don´t understand what he should need a therapy for. Actually I think he´s mentally stronger than any of us. I was amazed to watch the Geraldo interview and see how he´s handling this shit. I was also very pleased to hear what he had to say in general. Mike is a very wise and inteligent man. The fact that he is different does not mean he needs a therapy. I also don´t understand why you think that he should need it because he hangs around children. So? He is childlike, but also very mature and as long as he balance his maturity and childlikeness the way he has done so far, I am ok with it. And plz guys stop posting and pointing out all his mistakes cause they´re the only things we as a public are allowed to see. You won´t find stories in media about what amazing MJ did as father. And you cannot judge ppl based ONLY on their mistakes, cause nobody is perfect. Interesting is that when you guys are discussing his sanity, you consider only those mistakes and none of you comes here and says: "yeah, but on the other hand, he also does this." And when someone like me does, I get labeled fanatic - which I have already gotten used to.
BTW MIke looks great in that picture!! Thanks for posting it!!! And your right - brother´s testimony is exact the same as the one from 93. Well in that case I think you're the most HUMAN person I've ever chatted with.
I´ll take that as a compliment!"When Michael Jackson is just singing and dancing, you just think this is an astonishing talent. And he has had this astounding talent all his life, but we want him to be floored as well. We really don´t like the idea that he could have it all." | |
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dag said:[quote] Cloudy I am with you. Just as they say that we find a way to rationalize everything for him, they also always find a way to make him a sick paedo.
I hear ya! While most would like to assume the worst, I'll hope for the best. | |
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TheOrgerFormerlyKnownAs said: Cloudbuster said: On the contrary, many parents have expressed the joys of how having children allows them to relive their own childhood.
As a parent of three Cloudy, you have to be a grownup to raise kids. You can't be their buddy or friend, they need supervision and guidance. I appreciate that parents should be there to guide their children (altho' often their "guidance" is questionable in itself) but there's nothing to stop them from being a friend, too. | |
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I appreciate that parents should be there to guide their children (altho' often their "guidance" is questionable in itself) but there's nothing to stop them from being a friend, too.
You´re right about that. I know so many ppl that were guided by their parents so much that they ended up desperate not knowing what to do with their lives because they were living "their parents" dreams. For example I personally found myself so many times doing something not knowing why the hell I did it when I didn´t want it. Well my parents wanted me to do it - that´s why I did it, but the most interesting thing is that they made me believe that it was actualy me who wanted it in the beginning - and that´s not good. That doesn to a healthy life anyway. "When Michael Jackson is just singing and dancing, you just think this is an astonishing talent. And he has had this astounding talent all his life, but we want him to be floored as well. We really don´t like the idea that he could have it all." | |
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dag said: You´re right about that. I know so many ppl that were guided by their parents so much that they ended up desperate not knowing what to do with their lives because they were living "their parents" dreams. For example I personally found myself so many times doing something not knowing why the hell I did it when I didn´t want it. Well my parents wanted me to do it - that´s why I did it, but the most interesting thing is that they made me believe that it was actualy me who wanted it in the beginning - and that´s not good. That doesn to a healthy life anyway.
Indeed. Children need guidance but also they need to be allowed the space and time to develop into their own selves. If I had turned out the way may father had wanted I'd be a sexist, racist homophobe. Thank goodness I didn't take on board his advice.  | |
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BlueNote said: I took a day off yesterday. Could anybody sum up yesterday's day in court? What did Star say?
BlueNote in a short note what he said When the family was having their meal, Gavin turned round to his mother and father and michael to ask if he and his brother star could sleep in michaels room. which his mother replied yes. also he is talking about the alleged two times he saw Michael abusing Gav in his bed. | |
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BlueNote said: I took a day off yesterday. Could anybody sum up yesterday's day in court? What did Star say?
BlueNote MJ took a 5-minute bathroom break people can't stop talking about. The played an audiotape where the family is heard praising MJ (pretty much the same things as on the 'rebuttal video', but this time taped by some private investigator). The boy's younger brother testified that *MJ showed them porn *MJ gave them wine on various occasions *MJ appeared naked in front of them *MJ licked his brother's head on the plane *he witnessed MJ molest his brother on two occasions As far as i can tell the brother changed significant parts of his testimony or added to them when compared to Grand Jury testimony, testimony to the cops and what he told to the the shrink (Katz). Some of these changes could indicate he coordinated his testimony with other members of the family, or that the shrink influenced his memories. Anyway, today will be interesting when Mez confronts the boy with this, i'm pretty sure he'll be on the stand for quite a long time. "It's better 2 B hated 4 what U R than 2 B loved 4 what U R not."
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You guys are funny in your defense of MJ's behavior. I think Michael likes to have fun, play games, ride rides, etc. but all this "he's childlike" is BS. When Michael was describing what he does with the children in his room, the music, reading a book and having cookies and milk, I was like...that is BS. If I walked in my daughter's room when she was 10, turned on some children's music, with cookies and milk..and said..."Syd, its story time" should would have just looked at me and said "I'd rather watch the new usher video". I can see all this with a 5 or 6 year old..but a 10 year old, whatever Michael.
Do I think Mj sexually assualted this child, NOPE but do I think Michael is full of shit sometimes...YES. I don't think all this is a innocent and sweet as Mj makes it out to be. | |
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Rhondab said: You guys are funny in your defense of MJ's behavior. I think Michael likes to have fun, play games, ride rides, etc. but all this "he's childlike" is BS. When Michael was describing what he does with the children in his room, the music, reading a book and having cookies and milk, I was like...that is BS. If I walked in my daughter's room when she was 10, turned on some children's music, with cookies and milk..and said..."Syd, its story time" should would have just looked at me and said "I'd rather watch the new usher video". I can see all this with a 5 or 6 year old..but a 10 year old, whatever Michael.
Do I think Mj sexually assualted this child, NOPE but do I think Michael is full of shit sometimes...YES. I don't think all this is a innocent and sweet as Mj makes it out to be. oh fuck it I would let Michael Jackson read me stories and give me cookies  | |
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TheOrgerFormerlyKnownAs said: Cloudbuster said: On the contrary, many parents have expressed the joys of how having children allows them to relive their own childhood. Does MJ need therapy? It seems that everyone needs therapy of sorts these days. Yep, something is wrong with that boy; thats all it is to it; something is wrong with his arse. If I ask any straight male I know they'll tell u somethings wrong with holms. 
Asks Elvis's daughter, she'll tell ya; but she keeps about face. How long was he married to her??? (trying to put up a front!) I bet he never hit it the whole time he was married to her She ought to tell off on his arse.
Ask any brother out there they going to have money and fame like MJ had it and then they go and marry something like he picked up off the street, whatever here name was Debbie Roe??? Not that he can't go marry a common girl but just the way he did it; for example those children he had with her they weren't conceived naturally like a normal couple, she was artifically inseminated if I'm not mistaken??? Proof Proof |
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DB [Edited 3/8/05 11:19am] |
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from mjjf:
Savannah (court tv reporter): The first thing he really hit hard on with this young man is the alarm, the sensor that goes off when you walk down the hallway to Michael Jackson's room. Mesereau really pinned the accuser's brother down on this and said -- every time you went into that room that alarm went off, didn't it. He said yes. He said, did you ever see Michael Jackson dismantle that alarm? No. Could you hear the bell ringing every time you walked in there? Yes. Could you hear the bell ringing when you were in the room and somebody walked down the hall? Yes. Then he said -- did that bell go off the time you say you walked up into that room, walked up those stairs and witnessed Michael Jackson in the act of molestation? He said, yes, the bell did go on but he claimed with the door closed as it was, Jackson could not have heard it. Then he moved on to some of the inconsistency that is he says this young accuser's brother had in his story. He gave several statements, first to dr. Stanley katz, a forensic psychologist, then a couple of interviews with sheriff's investigators, then later two days at the grand jury. And Mesereau has seized on some of the inconsistencies. He says the brother changed his story about what Michael Jackson was wearing at the time, what his brother was wearing at the time. More importantly, he says he changed his story about what he said Jackson did. He said initially that Jackson had sort of rubbed the rear-end of his brother over his clothes. But then later changed it to say that Michael Jackson's hand was actually in the young accuser's underpants. Then another issue he brought up that i I want to mention quick, jami, he asked the witness -- do you know -- have you ever spoken to anybody about this case, he denied that he had spoken about it with his mother, sister, father, anybody. Then he said, have you ever spoken to an attorney. He said I don't remember. He said do you know an attorney named larry feldman? He said no. Have you ever heard that name? Accuser said no. A few minutes later he mentioned a time they had met with larry feldman. He said he met twice with larry feldman, remembered that his mom and brother were there. In a matter of moments, it seems Mesereau got this young accuser in a contradiction, at first saying he never heard the name larry feldman, a few minute later saying yes, i remember i met with him twice. Larry feldman is important because he's the civil attorney in this case, but more importantly he represented that 1993 accuser and was the attorney who secured that multi, multimillion dollar settlement on behalf of that young accuser. 
Lying little scumbag.  |
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Astasheiks said: TheOrgerFormerlyKnownAs said: As a parent of three Cloudy, you have to be a grownup to raise kids. You can't be their buddy or friend, they need supervision and guidance.
Yep, something is wrong with that boy; thats all it is to it; something is wrong with his arse. If I ask any straight male I know they'll tell u somethings wrong with holms.
Asks Elvis's daughter, she'll tell ya; but she keeps about face. How long was he married to her??? (trying to put up a front!) I bet he never hit it the whole time he was married to her She ought to tell off on his arse.
Ask any brother out there they going to have money and fame like MJ had it and then they go and marry something like he picked up off the street, whatever here name was Debbie Roe??? Not that he can't go marry a common girl but just the way he did it; for example those children he had with her they weren't conceived naturally like a normal couple, she was artifically inseminated if I'm not mistaken??? Proof Proof  |
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Marrk said: Astasheiks said: Yep, something is wrong with that boy; thats all it is to it; something is wrong with his arse. If I ask any straight male I know they'll tell u somethings wrong with holms.
Asks Elvis's daughter, she'll tell ya; but she keeps about face. How long was he married to her??? (trying to put up a front!) I bet he never hit it the whole time he was married to her She ought to tell off on his arse.
Ask any brother out there they going to have money and fame like MJ had it and then they go and marry something like he picked up off the street, whatever here name was Debbie Roe??? Not that he can't go marry a common girl but just the way he did it; for example those children he had with her they weren't conceived naturally like a normal couple, she was artifically inseminated if I'm not mistaken??? Proof Proof ::shutters at the fact mj is a freak in bed:: what the hell book is that ??? Marrk said: from mjjf:
Savannah (court tv reporter): The first thing he really hit hard on with this young man is the alarm, the sensor that goes off when you walk down the hallway to Michael Jackson's room. Mesereau really pinned the accuser's brother down on this and said -- every time you went into that room that alarm went off, didn't it. He said yes. He said, did you ever see Michael Jackson dismantle that alarm? No. Could you hear the bell ringing every time you walked in there? Yes. Could you hear the bell ringing when you were in the room and somebody walked down the hall? Yes. Then he said -- did that bell go off the time you say you walked up into that room, walked up those stairs and witnessed Michael Jackson in the act of molestation? He said, yes, the bell did go on but he claimed with the door closed as it was, Jackson could not have heard it. Then he moved on to some of the inconsistency that is he says this young accuser's brother had in his story. He gave several statements, first to dr. Stanley katz, a forensic psychologist, then a couple of interviews with sheriff's investigators, then later two days at the grand jury. And Mesereau has seized on some of the inconsistencies. He says the brother changed his story about what Michael Jackson was wearing at the time, what his brother was wearing at the time. More importantly, he says he changed his story about what he said Jackson did. He said initially that Jackson had sort of rubbed the rear-end of his brother over his clothes. But then later changed it to say that Michael Jackson's hand was actually in the young accuser's underpants. Then another issue he brought up that i I want to mention quick, jami, he asked the witness -- do you know -- have you ever spoken to anybody about this case, he denied that he had spoken about it with his mother, sister, father, anybody. Then he said, have you ever spoken to an attorney. He said I don't remember. He said do you know an attorney named larry feldman? He said no. Have you ever heard that name? Accuser said no. A few minutes later he mentioned a time they had met with larry feldman. He said he met twice with larry feldman, remembered that his mom and brother were there. In a matter of moments, it seems Mesereau got this young accuser in a contradiction, at first saying he never heard the name larry feldman, a few minute later saying yes, i remember i met with him twice. Larry feldman is important because he's the civil attorney in this case, but more importantly he represented that 1993 accuser and was the attorney who secured that multi, multimillion dollar settlement on behalf of that young accuser Good stuff, i've been watching CNN all day, so far no word on the case thanks for the posting If this is accurate, Prsecution has deepened in a pool of their own excrement The whole Larry Feldman thing is probably predictable... If i where prosecuting, I would most likely tell wittnesses to steer clear from the name, The Problem with children testifying, is they get confused by the barrage of questions, and eventually release something to default the whole testimony... True some children are natural borne liars, but the nature of the questions often do change... Mesereau used a good method, instead of discrediting the actual molestation He discreditedthe access to the room. If the alarm was specifically made by MJ to alarm him of intruders, The alarm no doubt would of went off. whilst the alleged incident... First the boy said it didn't go off, than he says it did... If it did go off, even if their was a molestation happening, jackson would have heard the alarm and stopped what he was doing... thus Most likely the boy didn't see anything... | |
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Luv4oneanotha said:[quote] Marrk said: ::shutters at the fact mj is a freak in bed:: what the hell book is that ??? Marrk said: from mjjf:
Savannah (court tv reporter): The first thing he really hit hard on with this young man is the alarm, the sensor that goes off when you walk down the hallway to Michael Jackson's room. Mesereau really pinned the accuser's brother down on this and said -- every time you went into that room that alarm went off, didn't it. He said yes. He said, did you ever see Michael Jackson dismantle that alarm? No. Could you hear the bell ringing every time you walked in there? Yes. Could you hear the bell ringing when you were in the room and somebody walked down the hall? Yes. Then he said -- did that bell go off the time you say you walked up into that room, walked up those stairs and witnessed Michael Jackson in the act of molestation? He said, yes, the bell did go on but he claimed with the door closed as it was, Jackson could not have heard it. Then he moved on to some of the inconsistency that is he says this young accuser's brother had in his story. He gave several statements, first to dr. Stanley katz, a forensic psychologist, then a couple of interviews with sheriff's investigators, then later two days at the grand jury. And Mesereau has seized on some of the inconsistencies. He says the brother changed his story about what Michael Jackson was wearing at the time, what his brother was wearing at the time. More importantly, he says he changed his story about what he said Jackson did. He said initially that Jackson had sort of rubbed the rear-end of his brother over his clothes. But then later changed it to say that Michael Jackson's hand was actually in the young accuser's underpants. Then another issue he brought up that i I want to mention quick, jami, he asked the witness -- do you know -- have you ever spoken to anybody about this case, he denied that he had spoken about it with his mother, sister, father, anybody. Then he said, have you ever spoken to an attorney. He said I don't remember. He said do you know an attorney named larry feldman? He said no. Have you ever heard that name? Accuser said no. A few minutes later he mentioned a time they had met with larry feldman. He said he met twice with larry feldman, remembered that his mom and brother were there. In a matter of moments, it seems Mesereau got this young accuser in a contradiction, at first saying he never heard the name larry feldman, a few minute later saying yes, i remember i met with him twice. Larry feldman is important because he's the civil attorney in this case, but more importantly he represented that 1993 accuser and was the attorney who secured that multi, multimillion dollar settlement on behalf of that young accuser Good stuff, i've been watching CNN all day, so far no word on the case thanks for the posting If this is accurate, Prsecution has deepened in a pool of their own excrement The whole Larry Feldman thing is probably predictable... If i where prosecuting, I would most likely tell wittnesses to steer clear from the name, The Problem with children testifying, is they get confused by the barrage of questions, and eventually release something to default the whole testimony... True some children are natural borne liars, but the nature of the questions often do change... Mesereau used a good method, instead of discrediting the actual molestation He discreditedthe access to the room. If the alarm was specifically made by MJ to alarm him of intruders, The alarm no doubt would of went off. whilst the alleged incident... First the boy said it didn't go off, than he says it did... If it did go off, even if their was a molestation happening, jackson would have heard the alarm and stopped what he was doing... thus Most likely the boy didn't see anything... The thing is these kids are used to being scripted and not cross examined. Two Arvizo kids and Mez has cracked them both. Brother of Jackson Accuser Admits Lying 44 minutes ago By TIM MOLLOY, Associated Press Writer SANTA MARIA, Calif. - A 14-year-old boy who testified that Michael Jackson (news) molested his brother acknowledged under cross-examination Tuesday that the pop star didn't show him a sex magazine that the prosecution had introduced into evidence. The witness also said he lied under oath in a separate civil lawsuit. The teenager, who visited Jackson's Neverland ranch for the last time in March 2003, became confused after Jackson attorney Thomas Mesereau showed him a copy of Barely Legal magazine dated August 2003. The boy had testified on Monday that the magazine was one of those that Jackson had showed to him and his brother. Confronted with the conflicting dates, the boy said: "I never said it was exactly that one. That's not exactly the one he showed us." He said he had looked at the magazine with District Attorney Tom Sneddon before it was presented as evidence. Under further questioning by Mesereau, the boy also said he lied under oath in another case when he swore that his mother and father never fought and that his father never hit him. "When you were asked if your dad ever hit you, you said 'never,'" said Mesereau. "Were you telling the truth?" "No," said the boy, who is the only trial witness so far to testify that the molestation occurred. Jackson's attorney also referred to a civil suit the boys' mother filed against a department store company over an encounter with security guards. The mother claimed she was sexually assaulted and the family was beaten by the store guards. The defense contends the suit shows the family has a history of filing false claims to get money. "Did someone tell you to lie in the J.C. Penney case?" Mesereau asked. "I don't remember," the boy said. When Mesereau asked him to tell the jury why he lied under oath, the boy said: "I don't remember. It was five years ago. I don't remember nothing." Jackson, 46, is accused of molesting a 13-year-old boy cancer survivor at his Neverland estate in 2003 and giving him alcohol. He also is accused of conspiring to hold the boy's family captive to get them to rebut a damaging documentary in which Jackson said he allowed children to sleep in his bedroom. The 14-year-old boy became a crucial prosecution witness Monday when he testified to actually seeing molestation, saying he twice walked into Jackson's bedroom and saw Jackson masturbating with one hand while the other was in his sleeping brother's underwear. Mesereau asked the boy Tuesday about an alarm system in Jackson's house that alerts the singer when anyone is in the hall outside his bedroom. "So the two times you claim you saw Michael Jackson touching your brother in bed, that alarm went off?" asked Mesereau. "Yes," said the boy. When the boy testified about the alleged molestation on Monday he did not mention any bell or alarm system and said his brother slept through both incidents, snoring at one point. http://story.news.yahoo.c...el_jackson |
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Mesereau is doing a great job of cutting at the kid's credibility. He's already lied in court proceedings twice, before he even hit puberty.
But if -- IF -- the prosecution finds other kids, former employees, etc. who tell the same story, it can corroborate what this kid and the accuser is saying. Good night, sweet Prince | 7 June 1958 - 21 April 2016
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Is this August '03 magazine the one with the fingerprints???
BlueNote | |
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BlueNote said: Is this August '03 magazine the one with the fingerprints???
BlueNote we don't know. Regardless Star never saw that magazine at Neverland as it was printed five or six months after their last visit to Neverland. as for the Magazine with the print, Gavin apparently touched it in front of the Grand Jury last year. It could well be contaminated evidence anyway from what i've read. That aside, I think it's safe to say it's been a good day for Team Jackson today. |
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It seems to. It's funny how the family remembers everything ask by the DA but gets 'i don't remember, i was too young' blackouts when Mez is on.
BlueNote | |
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Marrk said: 
And I'm sorry, but at the point there is no way in hell I'd have ever done the nasty with Michael Jackson. [Edited 3/8/05 13:17pm] [Edited 3/8/05 13:18pm] | |
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namepeace said: Mesereau is doing a great job of cutting at the kid's credibility. He's already lied in court proceedings twice, before he even hit puberty.
But if -- IF -- the prosecution finds other kids, former employees, etc. who tell the same story, it can corroborate what this kid and the accuser is saying. We already know there are other kids, most notably the '93 case. Question is whether they'll be allowed to testify. The judge said he will base his ruling on the merit of the case as it is brought by the prosecution. So far it isn't looking good. Former employees testified to a whole lot of things, some of them corroborating the children's stories, but as far as i know none of them testified to MJ showing the children porn, giving them alcohol, or actually molesting them. Someone correct me if i'm wrong, but i think there are four molestation charges and one attempted molestation, right? Since the brother is the only witness to two of those counts, i don't think they stand a chance (he changed his story on various key points: the alarm, his position in the room, the position of MJ and his brother, the clothes they were (not) wearing). The alcohol charge means nothing without a molestation conviction, even if it is credible (and by admitting they knew the master code of all doors, and by lying over his knowledge of where the key to the wine cellar was, he has given a big boost to the defense). The abduction charge is ridiculous. They have some proof that some MJ employees didn't want the family to talk to the media. They didn't even try to link this to MJ, or make a more serious charge out of it. I'll tell you now who will be the star witness on this trial (for good or for worse): the two siblings of Jackson aide Frank Cascio. His younger brother and sister (12 and 14 at the time), were almost always present even according GJ testimony of the accusers. They were present when MJ gave them alcohol, they were present when MJ gave them wine, they were present when MJ slept in the same bed, ... When they are called by the prosecution or the defense, the whole case will be decided. JMHO "It's better 2 B hated 4 what U R than 2 B loved 4 what U R not."
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namepeace said: Mesereau is doing a great job of cutting at the kid's credibility. He's already lied in court proceedings twice, before he even hit puberty.
But if -- IF -- the prosecution finds other kids, former employees, etc. who tell the same story, it can corroborate what this kid and the accuser is saying. True but the damage is done, The brothers story was pretty much holding the glue in the whole incident, primarily because he stated that he saw it... The only way prosecution can recover is by getting some stone cold wittnesses... anything else would be pure speculation... and a Jury will see two wittnesses lying and a bunch of speculatory testimonies... ... Prosecution really needs to start now on an arsenal against mj... if they can't gets omething defense can't contradict or counter their f*cked because when its time for Defense to paint the picture, This trial is pretty much over... And Jackson wlll walk... | |
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SpcMs said: namepeace said: Mesereau is doing a great job of cutting at the kid's credibility. He's already lied in court proceedings twice, before he even hit puberty.
But if -- IF -- the prosecution finds other kids, former employees, etc. who tell the same story, it can corroborate what this kid and the accuser is saying. We already know there are other kids, most notably the '93 case. Question is whether they'll be allowed to testify. The judge said he will base his ruling on the merit of the case as it is brought by the prosecution. So far it isn't looking good. Former employees testified to a whole lot of things, some of them corroborating the children's stories, but as far as i know none of them testified to MJ showing the children porn, giving them alcohol, or actually molesting them. Someone correct me if i'm wrong, but i think there are four molestation charges and one attempted molestation, right? Since the brother is the only witness to two of those counts, i don't think they stand a chance (he changed his story on various key points: the alarm, his position in the room, the position of MJ and his brother, the clothes they were (not) wearing). The alcohol charge means nothing without a molestation conviction, even if it is credible (and by admitting they knew the master code of all doors, and by lying over his knowledge of where the key to the wine cellar was, he has given a big boost to the defense). The abduction charge is ridiculous. They have some proof that some MJ employees didn't want the family to talk to the media. They didn't even try to link this to MJ, or make a more serious charge out of it. I'll tell you now who will be the star witness on this trial (for good or for worse): the two siblings of Jackson aide Frank Cascio. His younger brother and sister (12 and 14 at the time), were almost always present even according GJ testimony of the accusers. They were present when MJ gave them alcohol, they were present when MJ gave them wine, they were present when MJ slept in the same bed, ... When they are called by the prosecution or the defense, the whole case will be decided. JMHO We'll see. '93 isn't bothering me that much though. You said it, former employees in my mind = disgruntled employees. Some of which have had a payday from the media years ago, some were nearly sued out of existance by MJ. No axes to grind there then. Mez will easily dismiss them. Let's not forget Jordan. If his description of MJ's dick was close enough back then, Sneddon would have got his criminal trial back then. As it didn't, there wasn't. Maybe photos of his penis will become evidence in this trial, embarrasing for Michael, but ultimately if anyone from '93 or Gavin or Star cannot describe it accurately, they've just about had it. seeing as how he supposedly parades around with an erection at times in front of kids. |
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SpcMs said: namepeace said: Mesereau is doing a great job of cutting at the kid's credibility. He's already lied in court proceedings twice, before he even hit puberty.
But if -- IF -- the prosecution finds other kids, former employees, etc. who tell the same story, it can corroborate what this kid and the accuser is saying. We already know there are other kids, most notably the '93 case. Question is whether they'll be allowed to testify. The judge said he will base his ruling on the merit of the case as it is brought by the prosecution. So far it isn't looking good. Former employees testified to a whole lot of things, some of them corroborating the children's stories, but as far as i know none of them testified to MJ showing the children porn, giving them alcohol, or actually molesting them. Someone correct me if i'm wrong, but i think there are four molestation charges and one attempted molestation, right? Since the brother is the only witness to two of those counts, i don't think they stand a chance (he changed his story on various key points: the alarm, his position in the room, the position of MJ and his brother, the clothes they were (not) wearing). The alcohol charge means nothing without a molestation conviction, even if it is credible (and by admitting they knew the master code of all doors, and by lying over his knowledge of where the key to the wine cellar was, he has given a big boost to the defense). The abduction charge is ridiculous. They have some proof that some MJ employees didn't want the family to talk to the media. They didn't even try to link this to MJ, or make a more serious charge out of it. I'll tell you now who will be the star witness on this trial (for good or for worse): the two siblings of Jackson aide Frank Cascio. His younger brother and sister (12 and 14 at the time), were almost always present even according GJ testimony of the accusers. They were present when MJ gave them alcohol, they were present when MJ gave them wine, they were present when MJ slept in the same bed, ... When they are called by the prosecution or the defense, the whole case will be decided. JMHO Well, the accuser is going to have to make a heckuva witness. His brother has already recanted his statements about being shown the mags. I think a jury won't be angry at him, but will wonder why he said one thing and then said another, time after time. If these witnesses and the prosecution timeline lack credibility, Sneddon better pray the judge allows him to call the other kids. That may be the only thing that will salvage this case. The foundation of the case is stirred, if not shaken. Good night, sweet Prince | 7 June 1958 - 21 April 2016
Props will be withheld until the showing and proving has commenced. -- Aaron McGruder | |
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Marrk said: Astasheiks said: Yep, something is wrong with that boy; thats all it is to it; something is wrong with his arse. If I ask any straight male I know they'll tell u somethings wrong with holms.
Asks Elvis's daughter, she'll tell ya; but she keeps about face. How long was he married to her??? (trying to put up a front!) I bet he never hit it the whole time he was married to her She ought to tell off on his arse.
Ask any brother out there they going to have money and fame like MJ had it and then they go and marry something like he picked up off the street, whatever here name was Debbie Roe??? Not that he can't go marry a common girl but just the way he did it; for example those children he had with her they weren't conceived naturally like a normal couple, she was artifically inseminated if I'm not mistaken??? Proof Proof If he was that good, they should have stayed married. [Edited 3/8/05 14:21pm] |
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