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Printablekrayzie said: MJ is no way a genius
Ofcourse he is, and the only thing to me that prince TRUELY does have over Mike is his Musicianship, cant deny that. [Edited 2/24/05 10:22am] | |
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LightOfArt said: That's not what Prince thinks though  Well, then I guess we all should be glad that none of us is Prince. No matter what amount of dancing, videos, and crotch grabbing MJ does, it won't make him a musical genius. George Michael arranged and produced and played on much if not all of Faith (therefore doing more than Mike himself does on an album) and I don't see anyone here calling him a musical genius. There are a lot of artists who do much more than MJ does on albums that aren't considered musical geniuses either, ie: Trent Reznor, David Bowie, Bruce Springsteen,George Michael, Brian Eno... I'm the first mammal to wear pants. | |
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Uh, sorry, daq. Mozart learned the harpsichord at age 3, played his first public performance at 5. He and his sister were taken on musical tours of sovereign German territories, so he had a similar life growing up as MJ did. He also was a master of the organ and violin.
OK, I didn´t know that. Nobody´s perfect. Can you believe that this thread has digressed into defending Mozart's legacy to Michael Jackson fans?
Hey I haven´t said anything against Mozart. All I said was that I didn´t agree with one statement, cause by agreeing with it, to me it would be the same like saying that Mozart wasn´t a genius, that´s all. (I didn´t know he could play more instruments than piano.) MJ, Prince and Mozart are all genius in their fields. I am not denegrading MOzart or anyone else. All I am doing here is defending MJ here to some people who think he´s a ridicilous puppet who was lucky enough to have good managers and people around him and who is just lucky to dance, otherwise there´s nothing "special" about him. He´s a genius and deserves the same respect as MOzart and Prince does, that´s all I am trying to say. "When Michael Jackson is just singing and dancing, you just think this is an astonishing talent. And he has had this astounding talent all his life, but we want him to be floored as well. We really don´t like the idea that he could have it all." | |
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dag said: Uh, sorry, daq. Mozart learned the harpsichord at age 3, played his first public performance at 5. He and his sister were taken on musical tours of sovereign German territories, so he had a similar life growing up as MJ did. He also was a master of the organ and violin.
OK, I didn´t know that. Nobody´s perfect. Can you believe that this thread has digressed into defending Mozart's legacy to Michael Jackson fans?
Hey I haven´t said anything against Mozart. All I said was that I didn´t agree with one statement, cause by agreeing with it, to me it would be the same like saying that Mozart wasn´t a genius, that´s all. (I didn´t know he could play more instruments than piano.) MJ, Prince and Mozart are all genius in their fields. I am not denegrading MOzart or anyone else. All I am doing here is defending MJ here to some people who think he´s a ridicilous puppet who was lucky enough to have good managers and people around him and who is just lucky to dance, otherwise there´s nothing "special" about him. He´s a genius and deserves the same respect as MOzart and Prince does, that´s all I am trying to say. If Michael deserves the same musical respect as Mozart, then your local pharmacist deserves the same scientific respect as Einstein, Darwin, or Steven Hawking. | |
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Mikes history album was pretty much 90% him and this is regardless of the input from other producers (Jam & Lewis). Mikes genius is a combination of his innovation that he's shown, his performance and dancing ability/ vesatility, his singing/songriting, composing and arranging combined. Thats what makes him a genious in my oppinion. | |
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threat said: Mikes history album was pretty much 90% him and this is regardless of the input from other producers (Jam & Lewis). Mikes genius is a combination of his innovation that he's shown, his performance and dancing ability/ vesatility, his singing/songriting, composing and arranging combined. Thats what makes him a genious in my oppinion.
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Axchi696 said: LightOfArt said: That's not what Prince thinks though Well, then I guess we all should be glad that none of us is Prince. No matter what amount of dancing, videos, and crotch grabbing MJ does, it won't make him a musical genius. George Michael arranged and produced and played on much if not all of Faith (therefore doing more than Mike himself does on an album) and I don't see anyone here calling him a musical genius. There are a lot of artists who do much more than MJ does on albums that aren't considered musical geniuses either, ie: Trent Reznor, David Bowie, Bruce Springsteen,George Michael, Brian Eno... I disagree. With such outstanding songs as Don't Stop 'Til You Get Enough, Billie Jean, Wanna Be Startin' Somethin', In The Closet, Who Is It, Earth Song, Stranger In Moscow, etc... then I would say that MJ does deserve the genius tag. All you really need to do is hear some of his demos and then you'll realise that he does indeed have a lot to do with the actual music. The fact that he's not a brilliant musician makes no fuck of a difference to me. The compositions and ideas are often his and his alone. That's all that should really matter. | |
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Cloudbuster said: Axchi696 said: Well, then I guess we all should be glad that none of us is Prince. No matter what amount of dancing, videos, and crotch grabbing MJ does, it won't make him a musical genius. George Michael arranged and produced and played on much if not all of Faith (therefore doing more than Mike himself does on an album) and I don't see anyone here calling him a musical genius. There are a lot of artists who do much more than MJ does on albums that aren't considered musical geniuses either, ie: Trent Reznor, David Bowie, Bruce Springsteen,George Michael, Brian Eno... I disagree. With such outstanding songs as Don't Stop 'Til You Get Enough, Billie Jean, Wanna Be Startin' Somethin', In The Closet, Who Is It, Earth Song, Stranger In Moscow, etc... then I would say that MJ does deserve the genius tag. All you really need to do is hear some of his demos and then you'll realise that he does indeed have a lot to do with the actual music. The fact that he's not a brilliant musician makes no fuck of a difference to me. The compositions and ideas are often his and his alone. That's all that should really matter.  | |
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If Michael deserves the same musical respect as Mozart, then your local pharmacist deserves the same scientific respect as Einstein, Darwin, or Steven Hawking.
See, here we go again. I am not the one here trying to discredit someone. Yes, he does. His music is not "seasonal" and he´s no one-hit-wonder. "When Michael Jackson is just singing and dancing, you just think this is an astonishing talent. And he has had this astounding talent all his life, but we want him to be floored as well. We really don´t like the idea that he could have it all." | |
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LightOfArt said:  What? | |
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dag said: If Michael deserves the same musical respect as Mozart, then your local pharmacist deserves the same scientific respect as Einstein, Darwin, or Steven Hawking.
See, here we go again. I am not the one here trying to discredit someone. Yes, he does. His music is not "seasonal" and he´s no one-hit-wonder. So? You can say that about dozens of pop stars. They're not Mozart, either. | |
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Cloudbuster said: Axchi696 said: Well, then I guess we all should be glad that none of us is Prince. No matter what amount of dancing, videos, and crotch grabbing MJ does, it won't make him a musical genius. George Michael arranged and produced and played on much if not all of Faith (therefore doing more than Mike himself does on an album) and I don't see anyone here calling him a musical genius. There are a lot of artists who do much more than MJ does on albums that aren't considered musical geniuses either, ie: Trent Reznor, David Bowie, Bruce Springsteen,George Michael, Brian Eno... I disagree. With such outstanding songs as Don't Stop 'Til You Get Enough, Billie Jean, Wanna Be Startin' Somethin', In The Closet, Who Is It, Earth Song, Stranger In Moscow, etc... then I would say that MJ does deserve the genius tag. All you really need to do is hear some of his demos and then you'll realise that he does indeed have a lot to do with the actual music. The fact that he's not a brilliant musician makes no fuck of a difference to me. The compositions and ideas are often his and his alone. That's all that should really matter. That's fine. I'm familiar with those songs, most of their demos too. You may consider Michael Jackson a musical genius; I don't. I think that the term genius is thrown about too easily today, and to me, nowhere is that more apparent than with Mr. Jackson. As I've said, Faith and The Downward Spiral were composed, arranged, produced (for the Downwards Spiral co-produced much in teh same way that MJ does), and performed (almost all of the instruments) by their respective artists. I don't consider those artists musical geniuses either. Finally, I don't think anyone's dancing skills should have any bearing on whether they are musically talented or not. It's a different thing altogether. I'm the first mammal to wear pants. | |
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Axchi696 said: Cloudbuster said: I disagree. With such outstanding songs as Don't Stop 'Til You Get Enough, Billie Jean, Wanna Be Startin' Somethin', In The Closet, Who Is It, Earth Song, Stranger In Moscow, etc... then I would say that MJ does deserve the genius tag.
All you really need to do is hear some of his demos and then you'll realise that he does indeed have a lot to do with the actual music. The fact that he's not a brilliant musician makes no fuck of a difference to me. The compositions and ideas are often his and his alone. That's all that should really matter. That's fine. I'm familiar with those songs, most of their demos too. You may consider Michael Jackson a musical genius; I don't. I think that the term genius is thrown about too easily today, and to me, nowhere is that more apparent than with Mr. Jackson. As I've said, Faith and The Downward Spiral were composed, arranged, produced (for the Downwards Spiral co-produced much in teh same way that MJ does), and performed (almost all of the instruments) by their respective artists. I don't consider those artists musical geniuses either. Finally, I don't think anyone's dancing skills should have any bearing on whether they are musically talented or not. It's a different thing altogether. We'll agree to disagree, then. | |
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So? You can say that about dozens of pop stars. They're not Mozart, either.
But I never said MJ or anyone else was Mozart. They just both deserve the status genius - that´s all. "When Michael Jackson is just singing and dancing, you just think this is an astonishing talent. And he has had this astounding talent all his life, but we want him to be floored as well. We really don´t like the idea that he could have it all." | |
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Hey, Voices: One last thing-- you said "Bad" was generally boring, yet in your profile when you list Michael Jackson as a favorite artist you say "only Off The Wall, Thriller and Bad."
Just curious as to why. [Edited 2/24/05 12:12pm] | |
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squiddyren said: Hey, Voices: One last thing-- you said "Bad" was generally boring, yet in your profile when you list Michael Jackson as a favorite artist you say "only Off The Wall, Thriller and Bad."
Just curious as to why.
[Edited 2/24/05 12:12pm] Thanks for taking the time to read my profile. The reason I list those is because those were the only 3 MJ albums that I thought had any worth (Liberian Girl is an amazing song, one of his best, so that album will always have a place in my  ).
Of course it was about a year and a half ago when I made that profile, and I've since rediscovered Dangerous, which I think I now like a lot better than Bad. [Edited 2/24/05 12:18pm] | |
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Thanks for taking the time to read my profile.
The reason I list those is because those were the only 3 MJ albums that I thought had any worth (Liberian Girl is an amazing song, one of his best, so that album will always have a place in my ). Of course it was about a year and a half ago when I made that profile, and I've since rediscovered Dangerous, which I think I now like a lot better than Bad. Here we come. Closet fan.  Why don´t you have Mozart there? (sorry I have to tease you on this one)  "When Michael Jackson is just singing and dancing, you just think this is an astonishing talent. And he has had this astounding talent all his life, but we want him to be floored as well. We really don´t like the idea that he could have it all." | |
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LightOfArt said: Neversin said: You obviously don't have a clue what it takes to compose a simple ass pop song (all of Mikey's material) and a 2 hour opera incorporating a multitude of emotions... So sorry but Mikey is far from a musical genius, there isn't anything remotely genius in his material... Prince is/was a pop music genius, now compare his musicianship and composing abilities to Mikey's... It's just laughable to think that THESE two are even on par, not to talk about Mozart... Neversin. That's not what Prince thinks though Prince also likes Brian Adams and Celine Dion... Says enough, don't you think? Neversin. O(+>NIИ<+)O
“Is man merely a mistake of God's? Or God merely a mistake of man's?” - Friedrich Wilhelm Nietzsche | |
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Neversin said: LightOfArt said: That's not what Prince thinks though Prince also likes Brian Adams and Celine Dion... Says enough, don't you think? Neversin. Liking someone and saying someone is genius is different. And I respect Celine's vocals even if I don't like her music | |
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the bottom line is...it's all a matter of personal opinion.If somebody thinks Michael Jackson is a genuis,then that's their opinion.There is no right or wrong.EVERY artist has thousands of fans who would argue that their guy is a "genuis".It's really silly to argue about it. | |
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thesexofit said: Good point. The age thing happens with most pop I guess? Even the beatles. All them "girl is pedator" songs Mike does must grate on some people. Mike does them sorta songs the best. Thank You. I've never heard anyone else mention those "woman predator" songs. I don't understand what thats all about. I love the songs but, the subject has always been bothersome to me. Most men would be flattered to be chased by women but, he isn't. I don't know if the story is true but, even the girl from the "The Way You Make Me Feel" video said she was fired from the Bad tour for initiating a kiss with him (and if nothing else, she's beautiful). Even though he has sung some of the best love songs ever written(maybe not by him), I sometimes get the feeling that he hates women. I think he's written ALL of the "predator" songs. | |
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VanitySixx said: Thank You. I've never heard anyone else mention those "woman predator" songs. I don't understand what thats all about. I love the songs but, the subject has always been bothersome to me. Most men would be flattered to be chased by women but, he isn't. I don't know if the story is true but, even the girl from the "The Way You Make Me Feel" video said she was fired from the Bad tour for initiating a kiss with him (and if nothing else, she's beautiful). Even though he has sung some of the best love songs ever written(maybe not by him), I sometimes get the feeling that he hates women. I think he's written ALL of the "predator" songs.
I don't think he hates women. I think he's probably scared of any kind of intimacy, and that's what's come across in his songs to me. A lot of his songs - Thriller, This Place Hotel, Billie Jean and others - sort of equate intimacy (sex, really) with trouble. Some may take that as a sign that he hates women, but really I think he hates himself. Either way, it's very sad. [Edited 2/25/05 6:49am] | |
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I don't know if the story is true but, even the girl from the "The Way You Make Me Feel" video said she was fired from the Bad tour for initiating a kiss with him (and if nothing else, she's beautiful).
Well, she said she was fired cause the management didn´t like the posibility of them getting involved, because Michael agreed with that kiss. Here´s one of her latest interview www.michaeljackson.hu - go to videos section "When Michael Jackson is just singing and dancing, you just think this is an astonishing talent. And he has had this astounding talent all his life, but we want him to be floored as well. We really don´t like the idea that he could have it all." | |
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RipHer2Shreds said: I don't think he hates women. I think he's probably scared of any kind of intimacy, and that's what's come across in his songs to me. A lot of his songs - Thriller, This Place Hotel, Billie Jean and others - sort of equate intimacy (sex, really) with trouble. Some may take that as a sign that he hates women, but really I think he hates himself. Either way, it's very sad.
[Edited 2/25/05 6:49am] Yeah, that is sad and that might explain a few things cause I'm really not buying that he lets his "management" control his dating practices. | |
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VanitySixx said: RipHer2Shreds said: I don't think he hates women. I think he's probably scared of any kind of intimacy, and that's what's come across in his songs to me. A lot of his songs - Thriller, This Place Hotel, Billie Jean and others - sort of equate intimacy (sex, really) with trouble. Some may take that as a sign that he hates women, but really I think he hates himself. Either way, it's very sad.
[Edited 2/25/05 6:49am] Yeah, that is sad and that might explain a few things cause I'm really not buying that he lets his "management" control his dating practices. Those "predator" songs are interesting as I feel it reflects his way towards women in general. But it also could be a fantasy that he wants woman to be sexually advancing him in a "dangerous" way? Who knows but how many artists do songs like that? | |
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Some People get too carried away when it comes to Mj.
Mj made good pop songs mostly in his trilogy:Off The Wall-Thriller-Bad. But that's about it. Relying too much on studio trickeries and image makes me wonder what's the difference between him and say...Britney Spears. One regret though, since he ditched Quincy Jones his music has gone from bad to worse. As for his musical capability i've never seen him playing any instrument. He's not a musician but an entertainer that's the difference between him and Prince. The same difference between Sammy Davis Jr and Jimi Hendrix | |
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kanamit said: Relying too much on studio trickeries and image makes me wonder what's the difference between him and say...Britney Spears. One regret though, since he ditched Quincy Jones his music has gone from bad to worse. As for his musical capability i've never seen him playing any instrument. Huh!!!Britney Spears..... Mike can't play instruments.....that's crazy!!! | |
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Michael can play a few basic instruments but only does so in the studio and possesses only marginal skills and relative knowledge. That's what I assume, anyway.
I'm tired of people claiming he has absolutely no musical prowess, though. He has one of the keenest senses of rhythm, melody, lyric, and all-around song construction ever. A good deal of the material on all his records are HIS ideas, not Quincy's, Teddy's, etc. | |
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kanamit said: Some People get too carried away when it comes to Mj.
Mj made good pop songs mostly in his trilogy:Off The Wall-Thriller-Bad. But that's about it. Relying too much on studio trickeries and image makes me wonder what's the difference between him and say...Britney Spears. One regret though, since he ditched Quincy Jones his music has gone from bad to worse. As for his musical capability i've never seen him playing any instrument. He's not a musician but an entertainer that's the difference between him and Prince. The same difference between Sammy Davis Jr and Jimi Hendrix  This shit is one of the most stupid things I've read on org so far | |
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LightOfArt said: kanamit said: Some People get too carried away when it comes to Mj.
Mj made good pop songs mostly in his trilogy:Off The Wall-Thriller-Bad. But that's about it. Relying too much on studio trickeries and image makes me wonder what's the difference between him and say...Britney Spears. One regret though, since he ditched Quincy Jones his music has gone from bad to worse. As for his musical capability i've never seen him playing any instrument. He's not a musician but an entertainer that's the difference between him and Prince. The same difference between Sammy Davis Jr and Jimi Hendrix This shit is one of the most stupid things I've read on org so farWhat is so stupid about it? | |
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