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PrintableCloudbuster said: VoicesCarry said: Yup, at dancing. Not at music, though, which is what we were talking about 
Michael is about the whole package - take away the dancing and performance skills and you're missing part of the whole. Yeah, but the two (Mozart & MJ) aren't even in the same genre. As a pop/r&b music artist I would say that Michael is one of the very best. His songs are brilliantly constructed. This is a ridiculous discussion.  Yes,it is a silly discussion because I don't think most people on this site are even into Mozart and his accomplishments,lol.You can only compare MJ to another artist who does the same type of music: pop/R&B. [Edited 2/23/05 5:22am] | |
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Cloudbuster said: VoicesCarry said: And if he wrote, produced and arranged all his songs, I'd put him in the same class as Prince (we're still a long way off from Mozart) Absolutely. However, the songs MJ does actually do by himself are generally his better ones. He should work on his own more often. That is, of course, assuming he'll be in a position to work at all in the coming months. Prince is arguably the better musician, but in my opinion Michael makes better music. If that makes sense. Mozart is a different trip entirely.  "Arguably"? Michael can barely play an instrument, so I have no idea where you're coming from on that one. | |
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VoicesCarry said: Cloudbuster said: Absolutely. However, the songs MJ does actually do by himself are generally his better ones. He should work on his own more often. That is, of course, assuming he'll be in a position to work at all in the coming months. Prince is arguably the better musician, but in my opinion Michael makes better music. If that makes sense. Mozart is a different trip entirely. "Arguably"? Michael can barely play an instrument, so I have no idea where you're coming from on that one. Well, simply that some would argue that the finished product is all that really matters. Therefore, there's room for discussion concerning who actually has the better gift at making a successful record. Michael obviously doesn't have the skills that Prince has when it comes to actually playing an instrument, but at the same time it doesn't make his music any less brilliant than Prince's because of that. Michael has his own musical vision and I doubt that there are many occasions when he doesn't have the last word on how he wants his music to sound. Michael is still regarded as a musician by many people even tho' he isn't a wizard with instruments, and rightly so because the musical ideas are mostly his own. | |
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Cloudbuster said: VoicesCarry said: "Arguably"? Michael can barely play an instrument, so I have no idea where you're coming from on that one. Well, simply that some would argue that the finished product is all that really matters. Therefore, there's room for discussion concerning who actually has the better gift at making a successful record. Michael obviously doesn't have the skills that Prince has when it comes to actually playing an instrument, but at the same time it doesn't make his music any less brilliant than Prince's because of that. Michael has his own musical vision and I doubt that there are many occasions when he doesn't have the last word on how he wants his music to sound. Michael is still regarded as a musician by many people even tho' he isn't a wizard with instruments, and rightly so because the musical ideas are mostly his own. Then Madonna is arguably a better musician than Prince. And that's all I'm going to say. | |
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Michael is about the whole package - take away the dancing and performance skills and you're missing part of the whole.
No I am not. I said that they are both geniuses - period. MJ at dancing and Mozart at composing classical music. That way they are equal! That´s all I am trying to say. That they are THE best at what they do. But you can´t say that MJ is also one of the best songwriters of all time, because if you make a list of hit songs, than MJ´s own compositions win. MJ hit´s Don´t stop till you get enough Billie Jean Beat it The girl is mine We are the world Bad The way you make me feel Dirty Diana Smooth Criminal Leave me alone Black or white Will you be there Heal the world Earth song Stranger in Moscow Blood on the dancefloor and others.. hit´s by Rod Temperton Thriller Rock with you R.Kelly You´re not alone S. Garret Man in the mirror Add other songs if I´ve forgotten anything. As you can see, MJ does not rely on others to make great and higly succesful music for him! And if he wrote, produced and arranged all his songs, I'd put him in the same class as Prince (we're still a long way off from Mozart)
I am not trying to discredit Prince here, cause I love his music (really, maybe more than MJ´s), of course Prince is master at handling all those instruments, but composing music the way MJ does is NOT easy. Let me repeat again, that those who haven´t seen the mexican deposition have no idea of what an amazing composer he also is. If you haven´t seen it, try to get it somewhere, cause it´s one of the most unebelievable MJ moments EVER captured on camera. I wish that idiot bashir who had a chance to show him to the world like that, DID THAT actually. "When Michael Jackson is just singing and dancing, you just think this is an astonishing talent. And he has had this astounding talent all his life, but we want him to be floored as well. We really don´t like the idea that he could have it all." | |
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DavidEye said: Cloudbuster said: Yeah, but the two (Mozart & MJ) aren't even in the same genre. As a pop/r&b music artist I would say that Michael is one of the very best. His songs are brilliantly constructed. This is a ridiculous discussion. Yes,it is a silly discussion because I don't think most people on this site are even into Mozart and his accomplishments,lol.You can only compare MJ to another artist who does the same type of music: pop/R&B. [Edited 2/23/05 5:22am] I  Mozart!
He was a monumental talent and I love his music. It is unmistakeable. | |
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I forgot to put on my list Human nature and Sheś out of my life, which were both hits and not written by MJ, just to make sure that you don´t tell me I am one-sided. "When Michael Jackson is just singing and dancing, you just think this is an astonishing talent. And he has had this astounding talent all his life, but we want him to be floored as well. We really don´t like the idea that he could have it all." | |
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VoicesCarry said: Then Madonna is arguably a better musician than Prince. And that's all I'm going to say.
If you honestly believe that Madonna makes better music than Prince then that's fine with me. You wouldn't be the only one to think that. She's certainly more tuned into what a pop audience wants than Prince has been in a long while. And I'll probably get my ass kicked for saying so (it is Prince org, after all) but I think Ray Of Light is a better album than any of P's post eighties efforts. | |
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dag said: I forgot to put on my list Human nature and Sheś out of my life, which were both hits and not written by MJ, just to make sure that you don´t tell me I am one-sided.
Let me make something clear: I think Michael's a truly great songwriter, but I just don't have as much respect for him as I do for someone who can "do it all", so to speak. | |
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you guys are funny
why do we always have to play the "comparison game"? It's silly and childish to keep argiung about who has more talent,who plays more instruments,etc.In the end,it's only music,you know.It's not matter of life or death.Mozart may be more talented than MJ,but I'd STILL rather hear 'Off The Wall' over anything that Mozart has ever done | |
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Cloudbuster said: VoicesCarry said: Then Madonna is arguably a better musician than Prince. And that's all I'm going to say.
If you honestly believe that Madonna makes better music than Prince then that's fine with me. You wouldn't be the only one to think that. She's certainly more tuned into what a pop audience wants than Prince has been in a long while. And I'll probably get my ass kicked for saying so (it is Prince org, after all) but I think Ray Of Light is a better album than any of P's post eighties efforts. No, I meant it in a   kind of way. | |
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DavidEye said: you guys are funny
why do we always have to play the "comparison game"? It's silly and childish to keep argiung about who has more talent,who plays more instruments,etc.In the end,it's only music,you know.It's not matter of life or death.Mozart may be more talented than MJ,but I'd STILL rather hear 'Off The Wall' over anything that Mozart has ever done Damn straight! Mozart never had the funk. | |
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VoicesCarry said: Cloudbuster said: If you honestly believe that Madonna makes better music than Prince then that's fine with me. You wouldn't be the only one to think that. She's certainly more tuned into what a pop audience wants than Prince has been in a long while. And I'll probably get my ass kicked for saying so (it is Prince org, after all) but I think Ray Of Light is a better album than any of P's post eighties efforts.
No, I meant it in a kind of way. | |
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VoicesCarry said: dag said: I forgot to put on my list Human nature and Shes´ out of my life, which were both hits and not written by MJ, just to make sure that you don´t tell me I am one-sided.
Let me make something clear: I think Michael's a truly great songwriter, but I just don't have as much respect for him as I do for someone who can "do it all", so to speak. I have the same amount of respect for ANY artist that makes music that I enjoy,regardless of whether they wrote it and/or played all the instruments on it.Prince is great and he can do it all,but I don't really play "favorites" with the people I admire. | |
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DavidEye said: I have the same amount of respect for ANY artist that makes music that I enjoy,regardless of whether they wrote it and/or played all the instruments on it.Prince is great and he can do it all,but I don't really play "favorites" with the people I admire.
Which is exactly how it should be. | |
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Cloudbuster said: DavidEye said: I have the same amount of respect for ANY artist that makes music that I enjoy,regardless of whether they wrote it and/or played all the instruments on it.Prince is great and he can do it all,but I don't really play "favorites" with the people I admire.
Which is exactly how it should be. I'm not playing favourites. But since I enjoy Kylie does that mean I give her equal respect to Prince when it comes to musicianship? Do I go around claiming Janet is the artistic resurrection of Jimi Hendrix simply because I love the hell out of her music? If that's how it "should be", I want no part of it.  [Edited 2/23/05 6:26am] | |
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VoicesCarry said: Cloudbuster said: Which is exactly how it should be. I'm not playing favourites. But since I enjoy Kylie does that mean I give her equal respect to Prince when it comes to musicianship? Do I go around claiming Janet is the artistic resurrection of Jimi Hendrix simply because I love the hell out of her music? If that's how it "should be", I want no part of it.
[Edited 2/23/05 6:26am] what do you do,take your "respect" and cut it into pieces? "Let's see...Prince gets 75 percent of my respect because he plays everything....Kylie gets 20 percent of my respect because she doesn't play anything....Janet gets 40 percent because her albums are deep...." in the end,it's only music.Enjoy Kylie,enjoy Prince,but why the need to compare and pit one artist against the other? Music should be fun,not a competition. | |
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DavidEye said: VoicesCarry said: I'm not playing favourites. But since I enjoy Kylie does that mean I give her equal respect to Prince when it comes to musicianship? Do I go around claiming Janet is the artistic resurrection of Jimi Hendrix simply because I love the hell out of her music? If that's how it "should be", I want no part of it.
[Edited 2/23/05 6:26am] what do you do,take your "respect" and cut it into pieces? "Let's see...Prince gets 75 percent of my respect because he plays everything....Kylie gets 20 percent of my respect because she doesn't play anything....Janet gets 40 percent because her albums are deep...." in the end,it's only music.Enjoy Kylie,enjoy Prince,but why the need to compare and pit one artist against the other? Music should be fun,not a competition.No, I'm saying Prince should get MORE RESPECT IN THE MUSICIANSHIP DEPT. This is not about whether or not you love the artist's music, this is about talent and skills. Is that so hard to understand? [Edited 2/23/05 6:34am] | |
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VoicesCarry said: Cloudbuster said: Which is exactly how it should be. I'm not playing favourites. But since I enjoy Kylie does that mean I give her equal respect to Prince when it comes to musicianship? Do I go around claiming Janet is the artistic resurrection of Jimi Hendrix simply because I love the hell out of her music? If that's how it "should be", I want no part of it.
[Edited 2/23/05 6:26am] I have to agree. If we're putting everyone in the same boat just because we "like them" then there's really no point in having discussions in this forum. It's like saying "I like Proust and I like the Beano therefore I have the same respect for both writers." | |
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VoicesCarry said: DavidEye said: what do you do,take your "respect" and cut it into pieces? "Let's see...Prince gets 75 percent of my respect because he plays everything....Kylie gets 20 percent of my respect because she doesn't play anything....Janet gets 40 percent because her albums are deep...." in the end,it's only music.Enjoy Kylie,enjoy Prince,but why the need to compare and pit one artist against the other? Music should be fun,not a competition.No, I'm saying Prince should get MORE RESPECT IN THE MUSICIANSHIP DEPT. This is not about whether or not you love the artist's music, this is about talent and skills. Is that so hard to understand? If you really feel this way,then why aren't you ever in the "Prince:Music and More" forum,discussing him and his music? You discuss Janet here alot more than you discuss Prince. | |
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dag said: those who haven´t seen the mexican deposition have no idea of what an amazing composer he also is. If you haven´t seen it, try to get it somewhere, cause it´s one of the most unebelievable MJ moments EVER captured on camera.
I agree. | |
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DavidEye said: VoicesCarry said: No, I'm saying Prince should get MORE RESPECT IN THE MUSICIANSHIP DEPT. This is not about whether or not you love the artist's music, this is about talent and skills. Is that so hard to understand? If you really feel this way,then why aren't you ever in the "Prince:Music and More" forum,discussing him and his music? You discuss Janet here alot more than you discuss Prince. Because I like the music of other artists more? However, I respect Prince's musicianship more than I do, say, that of Kylie or Janet. You know, because they don't play anything and need help to write and produce most of their songs. Is it sinking in yet?
And besides, if you were a Prince fanatic, would you REALLY hang out in Prince: Music & More? It's almost as bad as GD.[Edited 2/23/05 6:42am] | |
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adoreme said: VoicesCarry said: I'm not playing favourites. But since I enjoy Kylie does that mean I give her equal respect to Prince when it comes to musicianship? Do I go around claiming Janet is the artistic resurrection of Jimi Hendrix simply because I love the hell out of her music? If that's how it "should be", I want no part of it.
[Edited 2/23/05 6:26am] I have to agree. If we're putting everyone in the same boat just because we "like them" then there's really no point in having discussions in this forum. It's like saying "I like Proust and I like the Beano therefore I have the same respect for both writers." so the point of this forum is strictly to compare every artist to another artist?  | |
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DavidEye said: VoicesCarry said: No, I'm saying Prince should get MORE RESPECT IN THE MUSICIANSHIP DEPT. This is not about whether or not you love the artist's music, this is about talent and skills. Is that so hard to understand? If you really feel this way,then why aren't you ever in the "Prince:Music and More" forum,discussing him and his music? You discuss Janet here alot more than you discuss Prince. Surely that's a little bit unfair, DavidEye What Voicescarry is trying to say is that you can separate the things you like from the things you recognise as worthy of terms of respect. | |
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No, I'm saying Prince should get MORE RESPECT IN THE MUSICIANSHIP DEPT. This is not about whether or not you love the artist's music, this is about talent and skills. Is that so hard to understand?
I agree with you on this one. But not on this one. Let me make something clear: I think Michael's a truly great songwriter, but I just don't have as much respect for him as I do for someone who can "do it all", so to speak.
That would put for example mentioned Mozart into the lower category, cauase as far as I know, he couldn´t play all the instruments himself - like Prince. And we should really make difference between the genres of music. They are all made of tunes put into rhythm and harmony, each style only uses a different instruments, that´s all the difference there is to it. So a person who can write a great pop, rock, funky, country, jazz song is no worse than the one that can compose classical music. "When Michael Jackson is just singing and dancing, you just think this is an astonishing talent. And he has had this astounding talent all his life, but we want him to be floored as well. We really don´t like the idea that he could have it all." | |
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dag said: No, I'm saying Prince should get MORE RESPECT IN THE MUSICIANSHIP DEPT. This is not about whether or not you love the artist's music, this is about talent and skills. Is that so hard to understand?
I agree with you on this one. But not on this one. Let me make something clear: I think Michael's a truly great songwriter, but I just don't have as much respect for him as I do for someone who can "do it all", so to speak.
That would put for example mentioned Mozart into the lower category, cauase as far as I know, he couldn´t play all the instruments himself - like Prince. And we should really make difference between the genres of music. They are all made of tunes put into rhythm and harmony, each style only uses a different instruments, that´s all the difference there is to it. So a person who can write a great pop, rock, funky, country, jazz song is no worse than the one that can compose classical music. Uh, sorry, daq. Mozart learned the harpsichord at age 3, played his first public performance at 5. He and his sister were taken on musical tours of sovereign German territories, so he had a similar life growing up as MJ did. He also was a master of the organ and violin. | |
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VoicesCarry said: Uh, sorry, daq. Mozart learned the harpsichord at age 3, played his first public performance at 5. He and his sister were taken on musical tours of sovereign German territories, so he had a similar life growing up as MJ did. He also was a master of the organ and violin.
Can you believe that this thread has digressed into defending Mozart's legacy to Michael Jackson fans?  I'm the first mammal to wear pants. | |
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Axchi696 said: VoicesCarry said: Uh, sorry, daq. Mozart learned the harpsichord at age 3, played his first public performance at 5. He and his sister were taken on musical tours of sovereign German territories, so he had a similar life growing up as MJ did. He also was a master of the organ and violin.
Can you believe that this thread has digressed into defending Mozart's legacy to Michael Jackson fans? 
I know, we're talking about someone who was composing operas by the time he was 14, he wasn't some musical lightweight. This is a funny thread. | |
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dag said: BTW I don´t understand what´s the problem. They both made music, right? I don´t understand why people think that classical music is "better" or "higher quality" than popular music. It´s like saying that a comedy is better or higher quality than drama! C´mon!
You obviously don't have a clue what it takes to compose a simple ass pop song (all of Mikey's material) and a 2 hour opera incorporating a multitude of emotions... So sorry but Mikey is far from a musical genius, there isn't anything remotely genius in his material... Prince is/was a pop music genius, now compare his musicianship and composing abilities to Mikey's... It's just laughable to think that THESE two are even on par, not to talk about Mozart... Neversin. O(+>NIИ<+)O
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Neversin said: dag said: BTW I don´t understand what´s the problem. They both made music, right? I don´t understand why people think that classical music is "better" or "higher quality" than popular music. It´s like saying that a comedy is better or higher quality than drama! C´mon!
You obviously don't have a clue what it takes to compose a simple ass pop song (all of Mikey's material) and a 2 hour opera incorporating a multitude of emotions... So sorry but Mikey is far from a musical genius, there isn't anything remotely genius in his material... Prince is/was a pop music genius, now compare his musicianship and composing abilities to Mikey's... It's just laughable to think that THESE two are even on par, not to talk about Mozart... Neversin. That's not what Prince thinks though | |
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