sermwanderer said:

Depends on who remembers him. His fans of today will remember him as being a great artist. Haters will remember him for other reasons. But he will be remembered.

sermwanderer said:

He will be remembered for the stir he caused, mostly.This doesn't negate his music at all. Face facts, this can be said of many different artists. WE all knew Prince was a genius back in the day, and so did a few critics, but everyone else dismissed him as a "shock rocker". They couldn't see past his image to grasp his commentary on sexuality and spirituality. Even today,though far more people give him props now that he's an elder-statesmen of rock, you still hear people talk about Prince and his sexual image. "Head", "Sister" and "Darling Nikki" are what they think of him.

Underneath Manson's image, the shock-tactics and the various personas is an artist with interesting social commentary. Many folks miss the point of the guy, because they are too busy getting offended (and really, the whole intent of that is to weed-out the folks who weren't savvy enough to pay attention to what was being said). Read the lyrics to the AntiChrist Superstar album. Its a statement of how the persecution and hatred of an individual leads him to become a facist monster. In other words, society is creating the evils within itself. Mechanical Animals addressed the parrallel between the rock & roll lifestyle and the excesses of American society. Holy Wood clarified his whole point: that their is little difference between how our society glorifies celebrity, while at the same time makes celebrities of our monsters (after all, the public made a star out of Charles Manson, just like it did Marilyn Monroe). His most recent studio album, The Golden Age Of Grotesque, was Manson essentially sending himself up by depicting him as a twisted burlesque master of ceremonies. Hardly "pish", regardless of whether you like his music

sermwanderer said:

That's your opinion. I don't agree at all.

RipHer2Shreds said:

I think most of the people who dismiss him, like on this thread, do so BECAUSE they haven't listened to the music at all. And when people do that, they're basically playing into his hands. They see his image and go on that which is really too bad because they're missing out on a lot of great music. And Manson is probably rock's greatest philosopher, god knows he's one of the few intelligent rock stars out there.

JediMaster said:

I think most of the people who dismiss him, like on this thread, do so BECAUSE they haven't listened to the music at all. And when people do that, they're basically playing into his hands. They see his image and go on that which is really too bad because they're missing out on a lot of great music. And Manson is probably rock's greatest philosopher, god knows he's one of the few intelligent rock stars out there.

JediMaster said:

Yes its my opinion, but someone tell me whats the fuss?

All people have said is that he has made a few good tunes and the persona is fun and shocking, whatever, but musically, the guy is no great shakes

I've said in the past, I respect him for the way he shook up America and created a stir. He's good at that

But... is that it?

JediMaster said:

Yes its my opinion, but someone tell me whats the fuss?

All people have said is that he has made a few good tunes and the persona is fun and shocking, whatever, but musically, the guy is no great shakes

I've said in the past, I respect him for the way he shook up America and created a stir. He's good at that

But... is that it?

JediMaster said:

There is hype around him now, and creating a topic involves clicking a few buttons.

So all in all that was a stunning point

sermwanderer said:

No, that's it for YOU. Many of us disagree and appreciate a lot about him.

Look, he's not your cup of tea, and that's totally fine. But just take in some of the things you've read on this thread and try to understand that there are reasons why a lot of people like him. So the fuss is just about people diggin his shit. Hell, I don't see what the big deal is with Prince fans and Musicology, but to each their own. We like what we like.

sermwanderer said:

No, that's it for YOU. Many of us disagree and appreciate a lot about him.

Look, he's not your cup of tea, and that's totally fine. But just take in some of the things you've read on this thread and try to understand that there are reasons why a lot of people like him. So the fuss is just about people diggin his shit. Hell, I don't see what the big deal is with Prince fans and Musicology, but to each their own. We like what we like.

sermwanderer said:

No, that's it for YOU. Many of us disagree and appreciate a lot about him.

Look, he's not your cup of tea, and that's totally fine. But just take in some of the things you've read on this thread and try to understand that there are reasons why a lot of people like him. So the fuss is just about people diggin his shit. Hell, I don't see what the big deal is with Prince fans and Musicology, but to each their own. We like what we like.

EvilWhiteMale said:

Yes, I know you don't like Musicology. Neither do I but unlike yourself, I didnt need to tell spout shit about it on loadsa threads, pissing folk off. Just like I'm winding you up by slagging Manson, you certainly did over Musicology. Doesnt bother me mind you

I'm doing that here maybe, but to be honest I didnt intend to. I find his music shit. Perhaps I shouldnt have included the words this joke in the title or referred to him as shit. Cause I've just wound up some fans....


But fuck it, I said what I think. But what I really wanted to know, and perhaps I have not articulated myself well enough, is whether the main attraction is his image/persona or his music. Is the music secondary perhaps?

I think his image may well be the main attraction. Thats my opinion. Can I have yours please
?

sermwanderer said:

How is there hype about him now?? He had a greatest hits record out last year that yielded no controversy whatsoever, and a modest alt-rock hit with his cover of Depeche Mode's "Personal Jesus". Maybe there's something happening in Europe right now? In America, its been fairly low-key. You are presenting the most "hype" and controversy over him than I've heard in quite a while.

JediMaster said:

Yeah, maybe the hype is in Europe. Who cares, that means there is hype about him.

see my post in reply to EWM

EvilWhiteMale said:

Marilyn Manson is shit nowadays. No one digs him anymore, but his hardcore fans. Fun, huh?

sermwanderer said:

You misunderstand. I was actually asking if there is hype about him in Europe, and what the nature of it is. He isn't generating a lot of press in America, so I don't really know what you're referring to.

I'm not trying to argue with you. I'm just trying to explain the appeal.

skywalker said:

Too funny! Hey EWM, looks like young Skywalker got a "touche'" in on you!

See, this can be good-natured!

Anxiety said:

Gwar is hardly original. Alice Cooper did most of the stuff they do back in the 70s.

JediMaster said:

Yeah, ok. I appreciate that. I've worded things wrong perhaps, and appeared argumentative when I'm not trying to be. He's been in the papers here recently.

JediMaster said:

i didn't say they were a font of originality. i merely said i thought they were MORE original than MM. it's metal, it's comedy, it's puppeteering, it's animation, it's satire, and at the same time it's not. and it's able to laugh at itself while at the same time upsetting mommy and daddy. that's all.

sermwanderer said:

No problemo! We cool!

EvilWhiteMale said:

Do you think Manson will be remembered as a great or someone who excited a few folk by upsetting politicians and the like

sermwanderer said:

aw god...they were saying the same thing about kiss, the doors, the beatles, elvis, bowie, mozart and the first caveman who hit a skull with a bone,...sure he'll be remembered, haven't you learned yet: it's always the ones who we think we'll remember that are forgotten. He made a very big impact at the end of the 90's,...the hype may be over but the afterschocks will be heard for a long time. that's my guess

hmmmm I once started a threadlike this one.....

you know what I think..... the same as the thread starter

Lennon said:

One of the few instances that you and I have disagreed musically! We're usually of a like mind, but not with this one artist.

Yes, I know you don't like Musicology. Neither do I but unlike yourself, I didnt need to tell spout shit about it on loadsa threads, pissing folk off. Just like I'm winding you up by slagging Manson, you certainly did over Musicology. Doesnt bother me mind you

What makes you think I'm wound up over this? I'm just contributing to the thread, very calmly mind you. And if you noticed, I'm not making personal slams against you for having beef with Manson.

I'm doing that here maybe, but to be honest I didnt intend to. I find his music shit. Perhaps I shouldnt have included the words this joke in the title or referred to him as shit. Cause I've just wound up some fans....

It seems that's what you wanted to do. I don't think anyone is wound up as you say.

But fuck it, I said what I think. But what I really wanted to know, and perhaps I have not articulated myself well enough, is whether the main attraction is his image/persona or his music. Is the music secondary perhaps?

I think his image may well be the main attraction. Thats my opinion. Can I have yours please?

For me, his music is the main attraction. When I blast his music in my car, I'm not seeing his image. Sure, I love the imagery in his videos and stage performances, but he sold me on the sound.

Marilyn Manson is shit nowadays. No one digs him anymore, but his hardcore fans. Fun, huh?

sermwanderer said: