I've heard that prince really feared that the Time was overshadowing him during the controversy and 1999 tours and it was one of the reasons he kinda killed them off.too much competition? Do you think he was scared of them? when you look at the original time configuration each player in the time was equal or better than the counterpart in the revolution:

drums-jellybean vs bobby z=jellybean
guitar-jesse vs dez or wendy=jesse
bass- terry vs brown mark= draw?
keyboards-jimmy jam and monte moir vs lisa and dr fink=draw?

lead singer prince of course but morris was probably more entertaining

what do you think?

I think you've been watching "Purple Rain" too many times.

thechronic said:

hmmmmm?

Zum said:

yep probably

I had the opportunity to see Vanity 6, The Time and Prince on the 1999 tour and I have to say The Time was good but NOT better than Little Man.

And, I'd think twice about saying the time was better than the Revolution.

Jesse and Wendy would be dead equals, in my opinion (and my bias woudld be to favor Wendy -- check out W&L's "Eroica").

Ditto on Jimmy Jam & Monte Moir vs. Wendy & Dr. Fink. JJ & MM might be good for arrangements, but on the basis of pure musicianship on the piano/keys, I'd have to go with Lisa and the Doc. No one plays like Lisa, and no one could go off like Doc.

Terry Lewis vs. Brownmark? Hard to tell, given Prince's handling of basslines on both camps' albums. A schizophrenic tie? LOL

The only one I'd agree upon would be the drummers. And, that's almost as hard to call for the same reasons as the bass comparison. Drums/programming handled by Prince in a lot of cases.

ThreadBare said:

wendy and jesse equal? i don't think so

Finally, a great music topic. Okay heres the scoop.
Jimmy Jam talks about this in almost every interview.
Long story short.

When Jimmy Jam and Terry Lewis were on tour with Prince, of coarse they were not known back then. Well, during the tour, they had an opportunity to produce a record for the now de funked S.O.S. band. They took off to LA to produce a track during the tour. After completing the recording session, they missed their plane to return to the tour and subsequently missed a show. When they finally caught up with the band(The Time & the Revolution), No one was pissed. Prince always sat in with the Time, wearing Costume/disquised, when someone was missing or sick. Prince approached Jimmy and started teasing them about missing their plane. Prince was like "awwww some women made you guys late for your plane". Jimmy Jam, as naive as he was at the time, told Prince the real reason why they missed their plane(producing a record). Prince got pissed and immediatly fired both of them. Prince sat in with the time for the duration of the tour. Jimmy Jam and Terry Lewis of coarse, went on to be two of the biggest record producers in history, thanks to Prince.

Thats why Jimmy Jam and Terry Lewis are missing in Purple Rain. Jimmy Jam always talks about how much he wished that he could have been part of Purple Rain.

In addition, It was also well known, that Morris Day would not take the stage unless the crowd was in a frenzy. The Time is, indeed, the best band, hands down !. They put on an entire show that had you laughing as hard as you were dancing. Prince eventually broke them up because its true, they were a threat.
Prince is my boy. Prince listeners dont come any more loyal then me, but I will never skirt the truth. We all have to remember how young and immature everyone was back then, including Prince. Why do you guys think Prince recruted Jerome for Under the Cherry Moon. He was trying to recreate the chemistry that Morris and Jerome displayed in Purple Rain.It Just didnt work. And guess what peeps, looking back, im sure Prince would admit that what im saying is true. Its all about growing up.
[This message was edited Mon Apr 29 2:05:35 PDT 2002 by Fonkay31]

BNATURAL said:

Yeah, what the Hell is that. Jesse Johnson and Wendy. Please. No comparison

The Revolution and the Time ? Come on.... (snickering)

The easiest way to answer that question is to look at what an impact they popularly had solo...

Morris : Acting Career, Movies, Oak Tree & the Fish Net
Jesse : Hit Solo Albums & my fav "Shockadelica"
Terry : World Class Production Genius
Jimmy : World Class Production Genius
Jerome : Support Acting & still Performing
Monte : Solo "This Side of Paradise" Hit Songwriter


Matt : how can
Bobby : anyone even
Levi : attempt to
Mark : compare this
Wendy : group to these
Dez : guys above
Lisa : as superior?

Did Prince bring back the Revolution for G.Bridge ?
uh uh..

The easiest way to know this was to have been there and seen a lot of there shows, not by personal goals or achievements.

During that time, 1981-1983 or so, the time did, indeed, smoked the revolution on several occasions.

According to the book Dance Music Sex Romance, it was suggested this did happen. I have one good friend who used to attend shows in that era all the time, and he confirmed it.

Remeber that the revolution was still building it's chemistry at this point, and despite serious rehearsing, the time was probably able to really win the crowd over with their tight funk and energetic show.

I don't think there's a band on the planet that could touch Prince's current lineup, or the lineup with Sonny T, Michael B and Tommy B, but back then.....

I hadn't ever seen THE TIME, though I've seen the REVOLUTION gigs. Credible sources who've seen both certify the THE TIME was much much funkier. but REVOLUTION was rockin' harder. Some say thats why the bottom was pulled out from them (sabotaged by Prince who put in the word to WB execs to under-promote?), though it's more likely cuz of Jesse Johnson' ego.

Savannah said:

Thank you, thats what im saying. I could not have said it better myself.

If I remember correctly,Prince removed The Time from the L.A. and New York dates on his '1999' tour.The story goes that he didn't wanna risk getting upstaged in those two major cities.Don't know if that is the TRUE reason,but it's something to think about...

But,I don't believe that Prince "broke up" The Time.Morris and Jesse seemed eager to launch solo careers.They complained about the lack of control they had over the band,so it was inevitable that they would go solo and do their their own thing at some point.

As far as The Time being a better live act than P and the Revolution...I think it was all just alot of "healthy competition" between the bands.Back then,Prince seemed to really love competing with whoever he was touring with.In 1980,he opened for Rick James and you know he loved kicking James' ass every night onstage...lol...

Jesse and Wendy "pick up your shovels and dig"

For those who think Wendy can't compare as a soloist to Jesse, hear me: There's a big difference between the two guitarists' soloing styles. And, I say this as a student of the guitar and a (very minor) recording artist/studio musician (guitar).

Jesse is a lot more repetitive. I'm not saying he's not excellent, but he's more prone to exploit a flashy run over and over again. He also has wonderful tone, a tone I've yet to be able to replicate. It's wonderful! The sum of these things leave a deep impression on folks appreciating his overall ability. And that's just soloing. He's also incredibly funky as a rhythm guitarist.

Wendy has soloing chops like you wouldn't believe. The solo on "Kiss." Hello? Listen to her albums with Lisa and check out her more nuanced work as a soloist. "I Think It was December." Hello again. "Porch Swing" off of their Eroica album. It'll break your face! Wendy's work with Neil Finn is no joke either.

The difference here is that she's a lot more nuanced than Jesse. But she's more apt to do stuff on the guitar that'll leave me going: "Huh? How'd she do that? I don't get it." I'll put it like this: Jesse's more basic, flashier (but still excellent) style I was able to grasp and (clumsily) emulate back when I started playing guitar in high school. I wasn't nearly as fast, but I understood what he was doing.

But with Wendy's stuff, my guitar friends (who'd been playing years longer than I) had to show me how -- be it chords or soloing.

And finally, you have to consider the fragile ego of Prince, when discussing this. Jesse, when he was with the Time, occupied the spot of guitar master -- what was Prince's role in the Revolution. Usually, if a guitar solo was taken, on wax or in concert, Prince was the focus -- he was playing it. So, Wendy's role was always more as support, whereas Jesse's role was to shine as the guitarist. Band-wise, not a fair comparison. Skilll-wise, check out Wendy's nuances and chops. She's no slouch.

DavidEye said:

Well considering Rick James wanted Prince thrown from his tour for fear of upstaging him on the east coast swing, looks like the control freak won out and just kicked The Time off the route (though I think it
was more like Prince cancelled himself off Rick's bill).

Thanks Dave

well i didnt see the time then but i heard the same rumors. however the time never had a number one song and i dont believe the ever went platinum. the crowds who came to these shows came for the revolution. the time was a great opening act and its easier to be the opener because the expectations are higher for the headliner. not taking anything away from the time. i wonder how the time would have held up as a headliner during that same era.

from what i heard, the time was getting a better response from the audience at these shows, and their albums were selling better until "Little Red Corvette" hit the pop charts. pop charts are no indication of quality music, however. look at these sorry bands that are topping the charts now. they should call it the poop charts. get it? oy.

Someone asked for THE TIME!

the time has never sold as well as the revolution. if crowds were feeling the time more they would have purchased them instead of prince records. that didnt happen.

funkycomic said:

Sorry man, but your logic is faulty. You're assuming that everyone who goes to a concert runs out and buys the record. The thread is specifically about a live performance, not record sales.

Prince did say once that The Time was the only band that he feared.

If your a real Prince/Time fan than you would have the famous 1986 interview between Prince and the electrifying Mojo from the Detroit b-day show. Prince admitted then that the TIME was then only band that he was afraid of.
He wished they would get back together because they were the only baddest band out there that gave Prince and the Revolution some real competition. Prince stated even though he created the TIME on the side, he felt they were like a monster out of control --that they were that good!!
Check it out!

DIG U BETTER DEAD!

I know I've said this at least 10 times, but since it's been brought up again, I'll say it again...


ABSOLUTELY
THE ORIGINAL TIME
- with Jesse, Jimmy & Terry-
KICKS PRINCE'S ASS
(as GREAT as Prince can be on stage)
EVERY TIME

Like I've said, Prince
HAD
to break up The Time

which is why, for 1 thing, I'd like to see the original Time lineup do 1 more tour, though that seems VERY unlikely.


When it was broken down musician by musician, The Time & The Revolution are almost even.. yeah, Wendy & Jesse have different "styles" of playing, but really, Jesse is technically superior. As solid as Wendy is, I've never heard her- or heard about her- going off on a tear during a solo..


At the risk of appearing "sexist"..
generally speaking, all-male bands tend to be HARD on the funk..
i.e.,
The Isley Brothers (their 70s lineup)
Funkadelic
Bootsy's Rubber Band
The Time
etc.

of course, there was Sly & the Family Stone,
The Revolution,
& other mixed gender groups that brought/bring the funk,
but..

ZaZa said:

This is so bizarre - I don't remember writing the above message & I can't figure out what I meant.

mltijchr said:

I see you referenced mixed-gender groups, but have you ever checked MOTHER'S FINEST? They were probably the first black group to really push for more of a rock, heavy-metal thing and the lead singer Joyce Kennedy is serious!!
[This message was edited Fri May 3 22:33:41 PDT 2002 by PFunkjazz]